Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)

[Ben]

I thought this was both a bad shoot and an interesting aftermath because I don't recall past stories where there was this kind of an in person protest regarding the shooting. Possibly more to the story, but on the face of it, the officer was part of a team searching for a lost boy. If he's going into someone's backyard, maybe he should knock on the front door first. There was no indication of an emergency, like an abduction.

My dog loves people, but if someone enters her (and her pack's) enclosed area, she's going to take an aggressive stance to an unknown aggressive posture. She very likely wouldn't bite, but she'd sure bark. I would be pretty pissed if someone shot her for that. The dog's owner had it exactly right. 'Back out and shut the gate".

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/29/salt-lake-police-shooting-sparks-large-protest-for-victim-dog-named-geist/

ETA: It also seems like this would have been a scenario where pepper spray would have done the job if the cop really feared for his safety.

[zxcvbob]

If someone comes in my backyard (or in my house) uninvited and shoots my dog, I'll assume the dog was not their real target.  They better hope I don't have a rifle handy.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I hope this *expletive deleted*it stops. Soon. If not, me thinks dumb ass Leo's might just bite off more than they can chew.

[dogmush]

If some one shoots (or shoots at) my dog in my fenced backyard I'll return fire.

I already I know what I need to about the target. PID has been achieved by the incoming fire.  I'm comfortable posting this publicly.

My dogs are part of my Defense In Depth. If you assault that, be prepared for the escalation.

[Marnoot]

This one's been all over the local news here ever since it happened. Nothing more to the background of the story, there was a lost kid, the cops were searching the area. The cops claim he did knock on the door (owner was at work), and then entered the fenced backyard after receiving no answer. Agreed that pepper spray should have been the extent of his response. Or hey, fenced and gated yard, maybe rattle the gate and see if any dogs pop out before you go traipsing in.

[Brad Johnson]

Saw it on Facebook. Looks like social media is really sinking it's teeth into the cop's posterier anatomy on this one.

Brad

[RoadKingLarry]

HEY NOW! We all know that the most important thing is that the cop got to go home at the end of his shift.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

*expletive deleted*ck the cop. I go to jail if I assault a police dog. This shitbag LEO should be charged and tried.

[AJ Dual]

Making the assumption that the majority of these police aren't bloodthirsty haters just itching to kill something... (Guy who cut the dog's throat notwithstanding...)

I think it comes down to the training. I'm guessing that we're now reaping the new generation of training of "YOU'VE ONLY GOT MICROSECONDS TO REACT BEFORE YOU'RE KILLED OR MAIMED ZOMG! ONEELEVENTY111!!!1!!111!!!" etc.

And since a dog < human, there's less benefit of the doubt to resist the training.

Dashcam video might be a secondary factor. Cops subconsciously don't want to be "that guy" with the quasi comical video of them getting up on the hood or the roof, and the dog is more likely to be ventilated for reasons of ego...

[Ben]

I think it comes down to the training. I'm guessing that we're now reaping the new generation of training of "YOU'VE ONLY GOT MICROSECONDS TO REACT BEFORE YOU'RE KILLED OR MAIMED ZOMG! ONEELEVENTY111!!!1!!111!!!" etc.

It could be other factors too, but the above does make sense. When I was a kid living in a tract home, my dog then was half lab, half German Shepard, so did have a protective instinct. Homes from that era were built with all the utility meters in the backyard. Meter readers came by once a month, and my dog barked at them everytime. When we were home we would just tell her to knock it off, but I'm sure when we weren't, she kept aggressively barking.

Not one meter reader was ever attacked. Somehow they seemed to know how to handle dogs in backyards. How do they have better training about it than cops? The other thing about AJ's post - most cops in the field that I have seen have one gun and 2-3 non-lethal weapons on them (taser, spray, baton). The training theory makes sense if the gun is coming out every single time versus one of the non-lethal weapons.

Another thing that bothers me is the fact that every time one of these incidents happen, the police management's response is always along the lines of "Well it was just a dog, and humans come first". Fine. Then how is it that  I would end up in the pokey if I were to kick or shoot a K9? Some dogs are more equal than others, I guess.

[cordex]

I think it comes down to the training. I'm guessing that we're now reaping the new generation of training of "YOU'VE ONLY GOT MICROSECONDS TO REACT BEFORE YOU'RE KILLED OR MAIMED ZOMG! ONEELEVENTY111!!!1!!111!!!" etc.

I think you're right.

Many jurisdictions require their officers to regularly watch videos of cops getting killed and beat on as part of ongoing training.

[brimic]

Cops will continue to do everything they can get away with so long as there are no real consequences.

Many jurisdictions require their officers to regularly watch videos of cops getting killed and beat on as part of ongoing training.

I think it should be incumbent upon citizens to regularly watch videos of cops shooting dogs or beating people during traffic stops.

[AJ Dual]

Controversial, but getting even further down to root causes, the whole "You've got the same rights as everyone else to go home at the end of the day."-mentality is to blame.

People are starting to make the argument that, "No, you don't. As an actor/representative for the State/.gov (despite Supreme Court rulings on "individuals") if you've got a duty to protect society, then at some point your mission has to come before your life."

I think it also comes as a corollary to the increasing militarization of the police. While they do everything possible in the military to minimize risks and maximize them for the enemy, the mission is deemed more important than the safety of troops. That's the nature of war. If the cops want to play soldier with surplus DHS MRAP's and SWAT gear, then the oaths they take need to be re-examined.

Out of 100 dog "attacks", the one cop that gets bit, or loses some fingers, gets a ripped up face or whatever, if the 99 dogs that didn't really bite keep on living, the benefit to society needs to be weighed.

[brimic]

Controversial, but getting even further down to root causes, the whole "You've got the same rights as everyone else to go home at the end of the day."-mentality is to blame.

People are starting to make the argument that, "No, you don't. As an actor/representative for the State/.gov (despite Supreme Court rulings on "individuals") if you've got a duty to protect society, then at some point your mission has to come before your life."

I think it also comes as a corollary to the increasing militarization of the police. While they do everything possible in the military to minimize risks and maximize them for the enemy, the mission is deemed more important than the safety of troops. That's the nature of war. If the cops want to play soldier with surplus DHS MRAP's and SWAT gear, then the oaths they take need to be re-examined.

.

In a lot of instances, the police make it very clear as to who the 'enemy' is. As to the war comparison- its my understanding that Cops have a much looser system of ROE as compared to our troops who were overseas.
They don't have to play on a level playing ground, the legal, their union,and  the largesse of the taxpayer are all stacked in their favor.

[fifth_column]

Controversial, but getting even further down to root causes, the whole "You've got the same rights as everyone else to go home at the end of the day."-mentality is to blame.

People are starting to make the argument that, "No, you don't. As an actor/representative for the State/.gov (despite Supreme Court rulings on "individuals") if you've got a duty to protect society, then at some point your mission has to come before your life."

I think it also comes as a corollary to the increasing militarization of the police. While they do everything possible in the military to minimize risks and maximize them for the enemy, the mission is deemed more important than the safety of troops. That's the nature of war. If the cops want to play soldier with surplus DHS MRAP's and SWAT gear, then the oaths they take need to be re-examined.

Out of 100 dog "attacks", the one cop that gets bit, or loses some fingers, gets a ripped up face or whatever, if the 99 dogs that didn't really bite keep on living, the benefit to society needs to be weighed.

I don't think cops want to play "soldier" so much as "occupying army."

[KD5NRH]

Controversial, but getting even further down to root causes, the whole "You've got the same rights as everyone else to go home at the end of the day."-mentality is to blame.

More to the point, they need to be reminded often that they have the same right as everyone else to go home well before the end of the day and seek other employment if it's just too scary for them.

[T.O.M.]

I think that this could be a very interesting law suit.  In many instances, an officer would be protected by sovereign immunity, provided that his actions were within the scope of his duties as a government employee.  However, if he was acting ultra vires...beyond his powers...then he loses his immunity.  When he went into private property without legal authority to do so (I can see no exigent circumstances, obviously no warrant), then he can be sued civilly for both the trespass and the destruction of the property (death of the dog).

Another thought...where is PETA in all of this???

[AJ Dual]

I think that this could be a very interesting law suit.  In many instances, an officer would be protected by sovereign immunity, provided that his actions were within the scope of his duties as a government employee.  However, if he was acting ultra vires...beyond his powers...then he loses his immunity.  When he went into private property without legal authority to do so (I can see no exigent circumstances, obviously no warrant), then he can be sued civilly for both the trespass and the destruction of the property (death of the dog).

Another thought...where is PETA in all of this???

Sovereign Immunity needs to be modified, badly. Not so far that criminals and prisoners can sue the daylights out of every cop, prison, and judge they've ever come across and bog down the legal system, but enough that police and DA's and judges are on the line for any egregious acts they take.

As to where PETA is? They downplay it, because it would gut their public and celebrity support, but as a core mission tenant, they don't believe people should have pets or companion animals, and that it harms the animals inherent dignity. That's why the lion's share of animals that wind up in PETA's care get euthanized and they make very little effort to place them.

So they won't stand up for police/pet shootings, because ideologically, they think the people shouldn't have had the pet in the first place.

I thought more people, at least the ones here, knew this?  

http://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/pets/

We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals’ best interests if the institution of “pet keeping”—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as “pets”—never existed. The international pastime of domesticating animals has created an overpopulation crisis; as a result, millions of unwanted animals are destroyed every year as “surplus.”

This selfish desire to possess animals and receive love from them causes immeasurable suffering, which results from manipulating their breeding, selling or giving them away casually, and depriving them of the opportunity to engage in their natural behavior. They are restricted to human homes, where they must obey commands and can only eat, drink, and even urinate when humans allow them to.

Read more: http://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/pets/#ixzz368Ytbd1X

IMO, hard-corps PETA members are fair game if the S ever HTF.

[zxcvbob]

This time it was just a dog.  Let 'em get away with it, and next time they will up the ante (shoot a toddler playing in the back  yard)

Cop should be prosecuted for criminal trespass, destruction of property, and illegal discharge of a firearm in the city limits.  He'll probably be acquitted, but let him sweat it out and pay his own damn lawyer fees.

And the chief should be fired.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Cops will continue to do everything they can get away with so long as there are no real consequences.

Bingo. Charge, try, and throw the found guilty ones in jail. Let "tiny" have their ass for 10-20.

Sovereign Immunity needs to be severely restricted, if not done away with entirely

[Neemi]

Local articles point out that the cop was acting in accordance with National Missing Child protocols.

I don't condone the fact that he shot the dog, or the fact that the kid was found AT HOME 30 minutes later, OR the fact that the cop has been getting death threats. There's no need for that.

[Balog]

Local articles point out that the cop was acting in accordance with National Missing Child protocols.

I don't condone the fact that he shot the dog, or the fact that the kid was found AT HOME 30 minutes later, OR the fact that the cop has been getting death threats. There's no need for that.

Yeah, the empty threats just make them think they can get away with it. Do or do not as Yoda would say.

[zxcvbob]

Local articles point out that the cop was acting in accordance with National Missing Child protocols.

I don't condone the fact that he shot the dog, or the fact that the kid was found AT HOME 30 minutes later, OR the fact that the cop has been getting death threats. There's no need for that.

Allegedly getting death threats.  They haven't released the name of the officer, so I'm pretty suspicious of that claim.

[Marnoot]

They haven't released the name of the officer, so I'm pretty suspicious of that claim.

They did release his name:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=30490406&nid=148&title=slcpd-identifies-officer-involved-in-dog-shooting-calls-for-civility

[Balog]

Also, is there really a set of missing child protocols that supersede the 4th amendment any time someone calls in a report? Within what radius of the alleged missing child does the Constitution no longer apply?