Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)

[Marnoot]

Yeah, the empty threats just make them think they can get away with it. Do or do not as Yoda would say.

Yes, because the proper response to an officer needlessly killing a dog is summary execution of said officer. Good to see APS is keepin' it classy as usual. I'm all for the officer getting fired and facing charges, but the frothing-at-the-mouth "kill 'em! kill 'em!" lynch mob in here is getting tiresome.

[zxcvbob]

Yes, because the proper response to an officer needlessly killing a dog is summary execution of said officer. Good to see APS is keepin' it classy as usual. I'm all for the officer getting fired and facing charges, but the frothing-at-the-mouth "kill 'em! kill 'em!" lynch mob in here is getting tiresome.

I haven't seen that.  Some of us have said we would return fire; that's not the same thing.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Also, is there really a set of missing child protocols that supersede the 4th amendment any time someone calls in a report? Within what radius of the alleged missing child does the Constitution no longer apply?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Also. Don't want death threats, don't shoot other peoples property. That damn simple

[Balog]

Yes, because the proper response to an officer needlessly killing a dog is summary execution of said officer. Good to see APS is keepin' it classy as usual. I'm all for the officer getting fired and facing charges, but the frothing-at-the-mouth "kill 'em! kill 'em!" lynch mob in here is getting tiresome.

One would have thought the Yoda reference would have conveyed the humorous intent.

Me personally, I find the fact that a certain class of people gets to violate the Constitution on a daily basis and is completely protected from negative consequences for doing so to be rather "tiresome." I swore an oath against all enemies foreign and domestic and the system is more and more establishing who those enemies are. I'd like to see the system reformed, and people being held accountable and obeying the law.

[brimic]

Yes, because the proper response to an officer needlessly killing a dog is summary execution of said officer. Good to see APS is keepin' it classy as usual. I'm all for the officer getting fired and facing charges, but the frothing-at-the-mouth "kill 'em! kill 'em!" lynch mob in here is getting tiresome.

I'd be curious of the police response to someone walking up to a police dog and shot it dead in cold blood...
As usual, some animals are more equal than others, and I can guarantee you that a police dog's life is more valuable than the life of one of the proles.

[T.O.M.]

As to where PETA is? They downplay it, because it would gut their public and celebrity support, but as a core mission tenant, they don't believe people should have pets or companion animals, and that it harms the animals inherent dignity. That's why the lion's share of animals that wind up in PETA's care get euthanized and they make very little effort to place them.

So they won't stand up for police/pet shootings, because ideologically, they think the people shouldn't have had the pet in the first place.

I thought more people, at least the ones here, knew this?  

Sorry.  Never followed PETA, and didn't realize that I was on their list for another reason by having a dog in my house, where her natural instincts are suffering by being given a spot on my couch, food to eat, etc.   

[Marnoot]

One would have thought the Yoda reference would have conveyed the humorous intent.

Fair enough.

Me personally, I find the fact that a certain class of people gets to violate the Constitution on a daily basis and is completely protected from negative consequences for doing so to be rather "tiresome." I swore an oath against all enemies foreign and domestic and the system is more and more establishing who those enemies are. I'd like to see the system reformed, and people being held accountable and obeying the law.

No disagreement from me there.

As to the returning fire thing, I guess that was merging in my mind with the death threats thing, though I still don't agree with it.

What I find tiresome I guess, and spilled out a bit here (despite it not really applying as this cop done wrong, no doubt) is the two camps on APS of "cops can do no wrong" (really only one camper there), and "cops can do no right". Yes, the prevalent cop culture is a major issue, the "police dog = police officer, your dog = simple property" is hypocritical, there are a lot of bad agencies and bad cops out there. There are also good officers in good agencies out there. They're probably more and more the minority, but they're out there. That said, SLC PD is not and has not been on my mental list of "good agencies". SLC local government leans pretty hard left, and SLC PD's handling of the proles is right in line with that.

[Balog]

I think of cops like all other arms of the .gov. Some small and insignificant fraction are truly good, some small fraction are truly evil, and most are just normal folks who happen to be proving Lord Acton right about the corrupting influence of power.

The thing is, I don't really care about the individual cops and agencies. As a whole, as a system, they are placed into a different caste. I oppose their group position, even if the individual cop or agency refuses to take advantage of it.

[brimic]

What I find tiresome I guess, and spilled out a bit here (despite it not really applying as this cop done wrong, no doubt) is the two camps on APS of "cops can do no wrong" (really only one camper there)

I used to be in the CSD camp, probably even a little to the right of him as little as 5 years ago. It might have been the constant bad news of bad shoots or other abuses committed by cops or their attitudes afteer the fact that eventually pushed me over to the opposite camp.

[brimic]

Another thought...where is PETA in all of this???

I'm sure the question was rhetorical, but PETA is firmly on the quisling statist team, just as you'd never see HCI or Million Mom March(are they even still around?) celebrating in the blood of a bad police shooting.

[KD5NRH]

Yes, because the proper response to an officer needlessly killing a dog is summary execution of said officer.

I don't favor summary execution.  I'm ambivalent, however, on the idea of dropping him into a pit of rabid rottweilers with a derringer and letting him choose his own punishment.

What I find tiresome I guess, and spilled out a bit here (despite it not really applying as this cop done wrong, no doubt) is the two camps on APS of "cops can do no wrong" (really only one camper there), and "cops can do no right".

I doubt anyone here would claim cops can't do anything good.  Even Hitler was known to be kind to women and animals, after all.  However, in either case, no amount of good compensates for any amount of unrepentant evil.

[Ben]

The thread started going towards "lock" territory, but the most previous posts are correcting that back into polite debate. Let's please continue with that.

I agree that a lot of the problem is institutional - from the militarization (in look even if not always in implementation) to the "police vs civilians" mindset even though police ARE civilians, to "officer safety at all costs" and to the point where LE have more freedom to secure their safety than the rest of us do. "Kill the cops" certainly doesn't help the argument from the side that wants to see changes. Not that it's prevalent on APS, but it is certainly out there elsewhere.

I just wish that LE management and unions would stop having a "circle the wagons" approach every time a bad cop or dumb cop does something bad or dumb. Punishment to an extent equal to what any other civilian would get for the same thing would go a long way towards reducing "us vs them".

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

There are no "good cops". No such animal exists. If you circle the blue wagons, take up for a bad Cop, only because he is a cop, your just as bad or worse.

When I see police officers actively seeking out, arresting and working with DA's to put the bad cops away (jail, not resignation or agency punishment), THEN and only then will I reevaluate my opinion. I'm not holding my breath

[T.O.M.]

There are no "good cops". No such animal exists. If you circle the blue wagons, take up for a bad Cop, only because he is a cop, your just as bad or worse.

When I see police officers actively seeking out, arresting and working with DA's to put the bad cops away (jail, not resignation or agency punishment), THEN and only then will I reevaluate my opinion. I'm not holding my breath

There are good cops, that do what you want them to do.  I've worked with them to do exactly what you ask them to do.  They just don't get any press. 

[onions!]

There are good cops, that do what you want them to do.  I've worked with them to do exactly what you ask them to do.  They just don't get any press. 

In the context of this post?Sure.
A-holes just laughed at me when I was stuck in a snow bank last winter.Smug bastages sat in their warm car and watched.Where were the good,helpful cops then,huh?

[roo_ster]

Me personally, I find the fact that a certain class of people gets to violate the Constitution on a daily basis and is completely protected from negative consequences for doing so to be rather "tiresome." I swore an oath against all enemies foreign and domestic and the system is more and more establishing who those enemies are. I'd like to see the system reformed, and people being held accountable and obeying the law.

This.

Reform the abuses before it gets uglier. 

[RevDisk]

We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals’ best interests if the institution of “pet keeping”—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as “pets”—never existed. The international pastime of domesticating animals has created an overpopulation crisis; as a result, millions of unwanted animals are destroyed every year as “surplus.”

This selfish desire to possess animals and receive love from them causes immeasurable suffering, which results from manipulating their breeding, selling or giving them away casually, and depriving them of the opportunity to engage in their natural behavior. They are restricted to human homes, where they must obey commands and can only eat, drink, and even urinate when humans allow them to.

Read more: http://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/pets/#ixzz368Ytbd1X

Apparently, PETA is not a fan of history.

Cats were never domesticated. They moved in on their own accord and acted like they owned the place. No joke, Egypt and grain storage areas. They came for the mice, saw that houses were comfy, and moved themselves in. Ergo, homes are their self-chosen habitat.

[onions!]

Apparently, PETA is not a fan of history.

Cats were never domesticated. They moved in on their own accord and acted like they owned the place. No joke, Egypt and grain storage areas. They came for the mice, saw that houses were comfy, and moved themselves in. Ergo, homes are their self-chosen habitat.

Speaking as someone who has volunteered many.many hours at a shelter,they're not totally wrong.Their IS a problem with overpopulation of pet animals.
Doesn't mean that they-as-an-institution aren't bug nuts though.

[Neemi]

I tried finding the UT/federal laws/protocols, but my Google Fu keeps getting interrupted by the munchkins.

My big problem with this story, other than the poor dog, is:

WHY DID NOBODY SEARCH THE HOUSE FIRST? 

When I'm frantic, I can't find stuff easily. Send a calm person/cop to search the house while others start searching public areas nearby. In this case, they would've found the kid asleep in the house.

If that step isn't on the list, it should be added.

That and yes, you don't ever own a cat. They adopt you - or at least your house and hospitality. 

[cordex]

I used to be in the CSD camp, probably even a little to the right of him as little as 5 years ago.

And I used to be in the Balog/BMoZ/KD5NRH/most of APS camp.  Spending some time with actual cops on duty has helped push me a little bit toward the middle.  Plenty of room - no one seems to want to camp here.  Hell, my camp is really set up just on the other side of the treeline from Balog and I'm still looked at like a holster-sniffing cop groupie half the time.

[Balog]

And I used to be in the Balog/BMoZ/KD5NRH/most of APS camp.  Spending some time with actual cops on duty has helped push me a little bit toward the middle.  Plenty of room - no one seems to want to camp here.  Hell, my camp is really set up just on the other side of the treeline from Balog and I'm still looked at like a holster-sniffing cop groupie half the time.

I think my actual position (perhaps it doesn't come through well) is a bit different than you seem to think.

I don't care about the individual cop. I care about the place cops have in our system, regardless of if they choose to take advantage of it or not.

[KD5NRH]

When I'm frantic, I can't find stuff easily. Send a calm person/cop to search the house while others start searching public areas nearby. In this case, they would've found the kid asleep in the house.

This; search the residence properly, and publicly accessible areas within a reasonable radius, looking into private yards where reasonable.  Then, and only then, is it reasonable to start entering private property to search.  I would make an exception if the child is known to frequent a neighborhood yard, or if a significant attraction/hazard like a pool with inadequate access control is known to be present, but not just carte blanche to start wandering through fenced yards before a basic walkaround has been done.

[T.O.M.]

I tried finding the UT/federal laws/protocols, but my Google Fu keeps getting interrupted by the munchkins.

I had no luck either.  Funny part is that with 20 years in the system, including a big chunk of time in the juvi system, and I've never heard of any federal missing child protocols.

[cordex]

I think my actual position (perhaps it doesn't come through well) is a bit different than you seem to think.

I don't care about the individual cop. I care about the place cops have in our system, regardless of if they choose to take advantage of it or not.

If that is indeed your position then I don't disagree much at all.  What often comes across is less nuanced and more vitriolic.

[Balog]

If that is indeed your position then I don't disagree much at all.  What often comes across is less nuanced and more vitriolic.

People (speaking generally, not of the APS membership) have an innate trust for authority. It takes time and effort to wear that down. Police (again, as a group in society not necessarily as individual officers or departments) are the enemy, and anything I can do in my own small and humble way to erode trust and confidence in them is all to the good. Cops aren't your friends, they're the enemy. Just like politicians. The sooner folks realize that (and in a concrete not abstract way), the better off we will be. I'm tired of congress having <%10 approval rating but what, like a %70 or so re-election rate?

Besides, I'm usually commenting on particular stories, about cops getting away with rape or assault or murder. Speaking on those particular cops requires no nuance, they're criminals and should be punished as such.