Author Topic: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)  (Read 7294 times)

Devonai

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,644
  • Panic Mode Activated
    • Kyrie Devonai Publishing
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2014, 03:28:32 PM »
It could be other factors too, but the above does make sense. When I was a kid living in a tract home, my dog then was half lab, half German Shepard, so did have a protective instinct. Homes from that era were built with all the utility meters in the backyard. Meter readers came by once a month, and my dog barked at them everytime. When we were home we would just tell her to knock it off, but I'm sure when we weren't, she kept aggressively barking.

Not one meter reader was ever attacked. Somehow they seemed to know how to handle dogs in backyards. How do they have better training about it than cops? The other thing about AJ's post - most cops in the field that I have seen have one gun and 2-3 non-lethal weapons on them (taser, spray, baton). The training theory makes sense if the gun is coming out every single time versus one of the non-lethal weapons.

Some of you might remember that I spent nine months cataloging transformers here in CT from 2011-2012. The job required me to access private property all the time. I never went through a latched gate to access equipment without permission of the homeowner first. In all other cases, it was impractical to do so (I did 80-100 units per day), but common sense is that a latched gate = dog. It was stated on the first day of training.

An alibi of "bad dog" was perfectly valid, in fact, it was one of the default choices in the alibi drop-down menu. Knowing canine body language was also important, and on one very notable occasion I didn't even get out of my car in the face of two aggressive German shepherds. The one time I did get bit, it was a little Jack Russel terrier and the owner apologized. I didn't report it because the bite didn't break the skin, and because duh, the dog was doing what we've been training them to do for 15,000 years.
My writing blog: Kyrie Devonai Publishing

When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2014, 03:38:57 PM »

I can understand shooting a dog if one reasonably believes one is in fear of serious injury. Basically, find out the standards where it is ok to shoot a police dog, and then apply it to everyone.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2014, 03:39:45 PM »
I can understand shooting a dog if one reasonably believes one is in fear of serious injury. Basically, find out the standards where it is ok to shoot a police dog, and then apply it to everyone.

Depends on if one is somewhere they are legally allowed to be or not.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,623
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2014, 04:30:38 PM »
People (speaking generally, not of the APS membership) have an innate trust for authority. It takes time and effort to wear that down. Police (again, as a group in society not necessarily as individual officers or departments) are the enemy, and anything I can do in my own small and humble way to erode trust and confidence in them is all to the good.
Perhaps in the minds of your intended audience your crusade is making headway.  For me specifically, it comes across as mindless, kneejerk reactionism which dilutes the laudable goal of publicizing, addressing and reducing real abuses of police authority.  Your heavy-handedness in trying to show the violence inherent to the system make it seem that you are blinded by your own biases.  Just as an anti-gun spokesperson considering gun safety, or a Klansman addressing Black violence lack credibility despite the fact that real issues exist, your intense prejudice significantly reduces the impact of your statements. 

You've become essentially a mirror-image to CSD.  If a cop story comes up, we know where you both will come down no matter what the facts of the story.  Each of you appear to come at the situation not merely with a presumption of guilt or innocence, but an absolute assurance of it based solely on the fact that one party is a cop, and work backward from there to try to prove it.

Cops aren't your friends, they're the enemy.
If you said something like "The Police State Apparatus is not your friend, it is the enemy," I would agree.  Of course, that goes beyond merely police and also includes prosecutors, legislators, lobbyists, judges, magistrates (not you Chris, you know we still love you), and bureaucrats where they further the police state or work to conceal malfeasance.

Alternatively, you would have been entirely correct saying simply "Cops are not your friends," and leaving it at that.  One should not behave as though police have one's best interests at heart and should at all times be careful and guarded when interacting with them for a variety of valid reasons we don't need to elaborate on now.  However, taking it to the next step and label all cops as enemies (whatever that means), you lose me. 

Lawdog isn't an enemy.  Matt G isn't an enemy.  My close friend with whom I ride along with periodically isn't an enemy, nor is his brother.  Hell, for that matter some random cop I don't know who truly serves and protects isn't an enemy.  The only cops who are my enemy (each to varying degrees) are the ones who are either criminals, protective of criminals or supportive of an increased police state.  That number is much smaller than I used to think it was.

I know, I know, "But I'm not talking about individuals!!!"  Except when you say "Cops are the enemy," you kind of are.  When someone labels Christians as enemies because they didn't like Westboro Baptist nutters, they are on equally bad footing.  Moreover, you (and others here such as BMoZ in this very thread) have more than once averred that all or most cops are bad cops.

Besides, I'm usually commenting on particular stories, about cops getting away with rape or assault or murder. Speaking on those particular cops requires no nuance, they're criminals and should be punished as such.
When your comments are limited to guilty cops and those who protect them, sure.  However, it isn't exactly rare that criticism of a lone scumbag cop becomes general criticism of everyone in the profession.  Finally, you tend to treat any accusation of impropriety as the same thing as guilt when the accused is a cop.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2014, 04:33:30 PM »
I lack nuisance and tact, says the guy comparing me to a Klansman.  :rofl:
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2014, 04:58:23 PM »
Lawdog isn't an enemy.  Matt G isn't an enemy.

Just a thought...but isn't that exactly what they would want us to think if they were trying to infiltrate our ranks?   [tinfoil]

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,623
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2014, 05:06:10 PM »
Just a thought...but isn't that exactly what they would want us to think if they were trying to infiltrate our ranks?   [tinfoil]
Wow, I bet you are right. And ... Wait a second. That is exactly the kind of thing a deep cover infiltrator would say.   [tinfoil]

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,407
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2014, 06:55:15 PM »
  Of course, that goes beyond merely police and also includes prosecutors, legislators, lobbyists, judges, magistrates (not you Chris, you know we still love you), and bureaucrats where they further the police state or work to conceal malfeasance.


Totally agree.

And that's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all week. =)
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,623
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #58 on: July 01, 2014, 07:54:21 PM »
I lack nuisance and tact, says the guy comparing me to a Klansman.  :rofl:
You have plenty of nuisance, actually ( =) ), and you are plenty smart enough to see difference between comparing ignorant biases and comparing you to a Klansman directly.

Great rejoinder, otherwise.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2014, 08:05:08 PM »
You have plenty of nuisance, actually ( =) ), and you are plenty smart enough to see difference between comparing ignorant biases and comparing you to a Klansman directly.

Great rejoinder, otherwise.

Damn you auto correct.

And if "Police organizations are the enemy, regardless of the intentions of individual officers or departments" is "kind of like" pulling a Charby and saying that all Christians who hold to orthodox doctrine are no different than WBC; then "You're as ignorantly biased as a Klansmen" is close enough to a direct comparison for our purposes here.

Sauce, goose, gander etc.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,232
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2014, 08:08:13 PM »
I'd just like to see the dog win one for a change in a "good dog vs. bad cop" encounter. :(
"It's good, though..."

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2014, 08:18:26 PM »
I'd just like to see the dog win one for a change in a "good dog vs. bad cop" encounter. :(

You will have to level out the disparity in weaponry first.

Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Angel Eyes

  • Lying dog-faced pony soldier
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,310
  • You're not diggin'
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2014, 08:22:41 PM »
*sigh*

I miss Bloom County.
"End of quote.  Repeat the line."
  - Joe 'Ron Burgundy' Biden

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,623
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2014, 08:35:47 PM »
And if "Police organizations are the enemy, regardless of the intentions of individual officers or departments" is "kind of like" pulling a Charby and saying that all Christians who hold to orthodox doctrine are no different than WBC; then "You're as ignorantly biased as a Klansmen" is close enough to a direct comparison for our purposes here.

Sauce, goose, gander etc.
Not really.  I think I already addressed some of the serious inconsistencies within your recent and rather self-refuting claim that when you say "Cops are the enemy," you actually mean some impersonal entity is the enemy, not cops themselves. 

Put another way, I think you do dislike the current law enforcement system, but also dislike individual members simply for being part of that system. This comes across very plainly whenever you post about cops and does indeed reflect the same ignorant bias as other examples cited.

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,915
  • A more Elegant Monkey for a more civilized Forum.
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2014, 10:06:42 PM »
People (speaking generally, not of the APS membership) have an innate trust for authority. It takes time and effort to wear that down. Police (again, as a group in society not necessarily as individual officers or departments) are the enemy, and anything I can do in my own small and humble way to erode trust and confidence in them is all to the good. Cops aren't your friends, they're the enemy. Just like politicians. The sooner folks realize that (and in a concrete not abstract way), the better off we will be. I'm tired of congress having <%10 approval rating but what, like a %70 or so re-election rate?

Besides, I'm usually commenting on particular stories, about cops getting away with rape or assault or murder. Speaking on those particular cops requires no nuance, they're criminals and should be punished as such.

Damn straight
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Abraham Lincoln


With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,407
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2014, 10:43:50 PM »
*sigh*

I miss Bloom County.


And Calvin and Hobbes...
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2014, 11:05:49 PM »
You know what cordex, I just don't care anymore. Liberals falsely accuse me of being a racist for wanting to secure the border and disliking Obama, libertarians wrongly call me a statist for not opposing public nudity laws, gay "rights" activists baselessly accuse me of being a homophobe for not wanting to redefine marriage: what the hell, let's add accusations of being as ignorant and hateful as a Klansman from the conservative wing because I oppose the police state and you read into my tone. Whatever helps you feel superior and self righteous man. I stopped caring what some random on the Internet thinks of me when they resort to silly straw men and ad hom comparisons.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,623
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2014, 11:43:04 PM »
let's add accusations of being as ignorant and hateful as a Klansman from the conservative wing because I oppose the police state and you read into my tone. Whatever helps you feel superior and self righteous man. I stopped caring what some random on the Internet thinks of me when they resort to silly straw men and ad hom comparisons.
Balog,

To be fair, my comparison was incendiary and intended to put your prejudice into a poor light, but instead just gave you an excuse to ignore everything else and pretend to be aggrieved. 

I retract it and apologize, however I stand by the fact that your proven bias against police officers reduces the impact of the message you claim you are trying to convey - one that I agree with.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2014, 02:59:51 AM »
Apparently I really am doing a poor job in communicating here. Let me try again.

I don't care what you think of me or the way I communicate.  Your opinion of me has no worth or value in mind. You insult me, and then in the guise of taking it back throw in another cheap shot about my "pretending" to be aggrieved.

I'm neither pretending nor aggrieved. I have no respect for you, no desire to hear your opinion of me, and give absolutely zero fcks about your mystical ability to see into my heart and discern my true motivations.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2014, 07:50:26 AM »
 [popcorn]


(my money is on Balog)


 [popcorn]
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,623
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2014, 08:53:36 AM »
Thank you for your clarification, Balog.  Through cogent argument and skillful debate you have truly bested me and shown me the error of my ways.  Well done.
:-*

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,010
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Another Cop vs Dog (The Dog Lost)
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2014, 09:20:48 AM »
Completely not APS. RKL lost his bet. Locked.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."