Bergdahl "fit" for duty.

[Fitz]

Whoa. That was a low blow. He hasn't been convicted yet, there is no need to associate him with US Senators or their ilk. Pretty sure that violates the APS standards of politeness, even if describing a potential deserter.

[Ron]

I was under the impression "POW" was a very specific designation that is applied under circumstances that don't apply to him.

Isn't calling him a POW when he isn't something of an insult to real POW's?

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what happens down the road. I suspect we won't hear any results from the investigation until after the midterms OR even after the next presidential election.

By that point folks will just say "what difference does it make?".

[RevDisk]

Whoa. That was a low blow. He hasn't been convicted yet, there is no need to associate him with US Senators or their ilk. Pretty sure that violates the APS standards of politeness, even if describing a potential deserter.

I laughed harder than I probably should at this.


I'm waiting on the report. It might be legit, it may be whitewash...  IMHO, being a POW for 5 years gets him at least the benefit of a doubt. I suspect he's a blue falcon at a minimum.

[RoadKingLarry]

Have they set a date to pin all the medals on him yet?


This whole mess stinks to high heaven. There needs to be at the very least an Article 32 hearing, followed by a courts martial and firing squad.

[BobR]

“That’s the worst place to put him. They’re pulling his clearance so I’m not sure what he’s supposed to do,” said one Army official,

He was an E3 grunt, what was the highest clearance he could have had, a Confidential? Probably not even that.

Bergdahl still has not spoken to his parents, although he has sent two letters to them at their home in Idaho. Robert and Jani Bergdahl have yet to visit him in Texas, and there are reports of a rift in the family.

This one leaves me scratching my head.

According to military officials familiar with his rehabilitation program, Bergdahl now has a lawyer to represent him.

“He appears unconcerned about the Army’s investigation,” said one official. “The investigation has to get moving, as he’s out of the Army soon. He lawyered up so we had to scale back the de-briefing.”

Reading between the lines, this really doesn't sound as though he is cooperating as they hoped he would.

The more I read about him, the less I like about him and the like pool is very very shallow to begin with.

bob

[Balog]

Bergdahl still has not spoken to his parents, although he has sent two letters to them at their home in Idaho. Robert and Jani Bergdahl have yet to visit him in Texas, and there are reports of a rift in the family.

They're probably bummed he's less enthusiastic for jihad since living with the camel rapers for a few years.

“He appears unconcerned about the Army’s investigation,” said one official.

Inshah Allah.

[wmenorr67]

He was an E3 grunt, what was the highest clearance he could have had, a Confidential? Probably not even that.

Well it would have depended on the mission set the unit he was with were set to do.  My second deployment we had to get an entire company Secret clearances based on the mission they were assigned.

[BobR]

I guess there could be some cases, but as soon as the mission was over, the clearance would be allowed to expire on its own, wouldn't it. Depending on my assignments I held everything from Confidential to TS, but I don't remember the clearance following me from command to command. Of course, that was a while ago and I could be misremembering. 

bob

[wmenorr67]

Once an investigation is complete a Secret clearance is good for 10 years and a Top Secret, 5 from the date the investigation was completed.  From there at least at the TS level you have to be read into different compartments when your mission dictates.  But no you don't "lose" your clearance just by changing commands.

[RoadKingLarry]

I guess there could be some cases, but as soon as the mission was over, the clearance would be allowed to expire on its own, wouldn't it. Depending on my assignments I held everything from Confidential to TS, but I don't remember the clearance following me from command to command. Of course, that was a while ago and I could be misremembering.  

bob

Administrative downgrade.
When I left my first boat and reported to Sub School Groton for training my secret clearance was admin down graded to confidential.  
Caused a bit of a stink when I found out about it and reported it. The school I had just completed was in a SC IF and you had to hold a Secret just to be allowed to be escorted in to the facility.

[Firethorn]

I was under the impression "POW" was a very specific designation that is applied under circumstances that don't apply to him.

I'd rather call any military member held captive by a terrorist organization that we are in conflict with, especially for extended duration, a POW than anything else.

In this specific case I'd rather treat him as a former POW until a court of law determines otherwise.  Hell, he should be considered a POW even if a court of law DOES state that he screwed up in all but the most extreme circumstances.

My thoughts on the matter:  Desertion, AWOL, it doesn't matter.  You are still a member of the United States Armed Forces until you are formally discharged, such as through a court-martial.  No such action was taken before his capture; ergo he's a POW.  A desertion(as opposed to a mere AWOL) charge MAY result in the forfeiting of all pay and allowances from the time of the desertion, but do they have enough evidence to prosecute either?  I don't know.  Do they WANT the press from holding a trial on the only POW of significant time in ages?  Probably not.

In any case, I figure his being assigned to a protocol office is more to enable them to be readily available to massage any public statements that he might make, or more accurately to be available for interview by said protocol office before THEY make a statement, whether it's regarding him, his time in captivity, capture, the Taliban, whatever.

Do deserters normally get paid for the time they spend AWOL?

No, but in this case he was maybe AWOL for maybe a day before being captured, at which point it wasn't his choice anymore.

Isn't calling him a POW when he isn't something of an insult to real POW's?

I wouldn't say so, no.  He might of had an easier time of it than many, but not all German held POWs were treated horribly either.  Honestly, as a military member I'd consider it scarier to remove the designation from him.

By that point folks will just say "what difference does it make?".

Probably part of the reasoning. 

I read, but now forget, what his official status was while he was gone, but if they are talking back pay, it must have been deserter.  I'm 99.95% sure if they think you're a POW the whole time you keep getting paid.

I'm 99.95% certain his status was 'POW'.  Why?  You don't promote deserters with their peers like you do with POWs.

I figure that lacking dependents they stop his pay in favor of escrowing/safeguarding it themselves.  Money deposited in a bank with nobody to manage it is subject to disappearing.  Instead I believe the procedure is to set it up so the pay is deposited into the 'Savings Deposit Program' which pays 10% interest a year.  'Back Pay' in this case is going through all the paperwork, raises and such and double checking everything is correct.

He was an E3 grunt, what was the highest clearance he could have had, a Confidential? Probably not even that.

Secret is actually the standard; they want it today to merely give you access to NIPRnet.  Of course, as an E3 I had a TS/SCI.  It's all about the job, not the rank.

----

In any case after saying all of the above my position is lacking any HUGE evidence I think they should give him his back pay and quietly separate/medically retire him. 

[Ben]

Administrative downgrade.
When I left my first boat and reported to Sub School Groton for training my secret clearance was admin down graded to confidential.  
Caused a bit of a stink when I found out about it and reported it. The school I had just completed was in a SC IF and you had to hold a Secret just to be allowed to be escorted in to the facility.

Ha - something like that happened to me once. My division had just switched to Bush's Pay for Performance "test" pay system that they wanted (may want) to replace the entire GS pay system with. Part of the process was resubmitting all our OPM paperwork with job descriptions, payscales, etc. with the updated information. Job series are a number, and if you have a clearance, there is a letter next to your number indicating the clearance level (nothing obvious - "S" doesn't mean SECRET for instance). Well, clearances in the program office where I worked were rare as hen's teeth, so whichever of our personnel drones that were processing the changes, which they didn't tell us about, apparently thought the letter was a typo, so they removed it. About a month after the pay conversion,  I went to SACTO to work a mission with the Coast Guard that required a briefing because of sensitive equipment onboard the C-130. Went to give their security guy my info, and he comes back and tells me I have no clearance. I called our security office in Seattle with a "what the hell?" and to their credit, they found the problem within a couple of hours. Unfortunately, it required completely resubmitting my paperwork with OPM to correct the job designator, which would take 30 days. So I got two days of paid leisure time in Sacramento. In July.

Don't know if it's the same in the .mil, but on the civilian side, you get your investigation, lets say to TS. If you have a job that lasts a year, you have the TS for that time, then when you don't need it, it's made "dormant" I guess - the investigation is still good, but you have no need to know anything. If a year later you have something that requires S, you just put in the paperwork that takes a few days to process. Since you already have an active investigation at the S level or higher, it's a quick process to reinstate a clearance at the appropriate level.

Or at least that's how it's supposed to work. A lot of civilians get their clearance with some very generic reason and end up keeping the clearance for the entire timeframe of their investigation because the reason is not connected to a specific mission. There is very little follow up anywhere in the chain to see if they still require the clearance or not, so a ton of people have active clearances that they don't need. Also as Firethorn said, SECRET seems to be the new black. Everybody and their brother in the relevant job areas seems to get one. I don't think I ever met anyone with only a Confidential clearance.

As for Bergdahl, I can't help but be pessimistic and think maybe somebody (or somebodies) is getting a choice billet or maybe a star, to push through his reintegration this quickly. If so, I think it's a disservice to both the Army, and to Bergdahl himself. If he's innocent, a thorough investigation is needed to help ensure he can carry on his life without a ton of unanswered questions dogging him the rest of his life. If he's guilty, a thorough investigation is needed to ensure he gets the help he needs - to potentially include Leavenworth time, because accepting responsibility and paying the piper is a form of healing as well.

[MillCreek]

Instead I believe the procedure is to set it up so the pay is deposited into the 'Savings Deposit Program' which pays 10% interest a year.

Jeezy Petes!  I would love to find a bank account that pays 10% annual interest!

[dogmush]

I don't know if they tweak it for POW's, but the SDP normally caps at $10,000 balance* and you can only be in it while deployed.  Still it's a nice perk if you can afford it while overseas.  I've used it (not the full 10k) twice.

*You can put 10k in it, and if you leave it alone for the whole year they will give you $1,000.

[wmenorr67]

He has retained a Yale law professor for counsel.  The professor is "honored/thrilled" to be chosen.

Not sure what the exact term was but that is the jest of what he said.

[roo_ster]

If the Army were smart (Don't laugh, it could happen!) they would give him all his back pay and then some and a Ch10 General Discharge under honorable conditions and wash their hands of it.  "Leave us alone and get on with your life anyplace other than the Army."

[wmenorr67]

If the Army were smart (Don't laugh, it could happen!) they would give him all his back pay and then some and a Ch10 General Discharge under honorable conditions and wash their hands of it.  "Leave us alone and get on with your life anyplace other than the Army."

Sorry I don't agree with this.  Then you will encourage more that are disgruntled to just walk away from their post. 

[RoadKingLarry]

Sorry I don't agree with this.  Then you will encourage more that are disgruntled to just walk away from their post. 

And you think the current administration would have a problem with that? Hell, they tried to prop this dirtbag up a some kind of hero. I suspect that in Obama's eye he is.

BTW, I agree with you.

[roo_ster]

Sorry I don't agree with this.  Then you will encourage more that are disgruntled to just walk away from their post. 

The circumstances of this case are such that solutions are not broadly applicable. 

Sure, my first instinct is to hang him from any convenient tree because I harbor suspicions he is a deserter.  But there is the reality that he spent five years in captivity of some sort.  The message of, "Desert your post and spend five years with moon-god worshiping, goat-n-boy-raping savages wondering if you will appear on youtube getting your head sawn off," has limited appeal.

Also, I do not think combing over details in public would be helpful to the Army.  WAY to many folks sympathetic to sedition and treason could use it as a cause célèbre.  And then there are those outside the White House...

[wmenorr67]

My issues come up when the locals say that he had come into the village asking for the Taliban leaders.