Question for collectors

[Monkeyleg]

I have a question for those of you who buy and keep things that are collector items, and keep them as collectibles.

In 1979, Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top had commissioned custom guitar artist Jimmy Hamilton under the Hamiltone brand name to make a guitar for Stevie Ray Vaughan. The guitar was to be a curly maple finish, Stratocaster-style, but with squared edges and binding trim like a Gibson. Further, it would have an ebony fretboard with Stevie's name inlaid in mother of pearl. There were some delays in the project for various reasons, including Stevie changing his stage name from Stevie Vaughan to Stevie Ray Vaughan. He was presented with the guitar--the only really nice guitar he ever owned--on April 29, 1984.

In the late 1990's, Jimmy Hamilton started making exact reproductions of the guitar on request. He signed and dated the back of the head stock on each, and numbered them. He also enclosed a signed certificate of authenticity on Hamiltone letterhead. From 1996 to 2004, he personally made about 100 of these guitars. In late 2004, there was some change in business between Hamilton and his partner, and his partner took over Hamiltone. Jimmy Hamilton continued to be involved in the production of the guitars, but the extent of his involvement isn't known. Another 400+ guitars were made, each numbered, but not signed by Jimmy Hamilton.

After that his partner continued to market the reproduction guitars, but they were not worked on at all by Jimmy Hamilton. Nobody seems to know who is making the guitars. He sells them for $3995. The numbered (but not signed) models go for much more than that, with some being far overpriced, especially in Europe and Japan. Original signed and numbered models go for as much as $10,000.

Craig Hopkins, former Stevie Ray Vaughan fan club president and author of several books (the only books) on Stevie Ray Vaughan, told me that he should be able to find an original signed model for $6000+, probably in August. I don't know if he'll be able to. I'll have to wait and see.

Meanwhile, I've located Jimmy Hamilton. I'm tempted to contact him and ask if he's still able to produce the guitars and, if so, what he would want. If he were able to, the upside would be a brand new unscratched model unquestionably made by him. The potential downside would be that it wasn't one of the original 100+ made over that 8 year period. I also don't know his arrangements with his former partner, and so don't know if he can even use the Hamiltone name on the headstock and a certificate.

Even if he can, I question whether the guitar would have the same value as one of the original 100+. Or could it be more collectible because it's not part of a run, and because it would now be a 30th anniversary model?

I think I know the answers to these questions, but thought I'd just ask.

[dogmush]

If I was collecting it for my own personal enjoyment, I would see if I could get a new one made.  Maybe signed to me.  Then it would be special as a collectors item, and because it was made FOR me.

If I thought I might want to sell it down the road, I would go for one of the original 100.  It's more likely to retain and climb in value then a one-off made for you.

[RevDisk]

If I was collecting it for my own personal enjoyment, I would see if I could get a new one made.  Maybe signed to me.  Then it would be special as a collectors item, and because it was made FOR me.

If I thought I might want to sell it down the road, I would go for one of the original 100.  It's more likely to retain and climb in value then a one-off made for you.

This. If it's an asset you want to speculate on, buy the original, crate it up and store it.

If it's for your own enjoyment, new one custom made for you might be awesome. But don't treat it as a potential investment.

[Monkeyleg]

Thanks. That's pretty much what I was thinking.

I'd be buying both for myself as well as any potential future appreciation. They may have already appreciated as much as they're going to beyond the usual inflation pressures. They were listed new on Hamiltone's site before 2004 for $5000. So, if someone's getting $6500 to $9500, that's not a lot. The Fender custom shop 100 limited edition reproductions of "Number One", Vaughan's beat up main guitar, sold for $17,000 new and one recently sold at auction for $57,000.

I think the 400+ unsigned but numbered reproductions, along with the untold number being produced now by Hamilton's ex-partner, have diluted the value of the originals. They're beautiful guitars.

[brimic]

I know nothing about guitars, but know that 'collectables' are worth what the next person is willing to pay for them with cash in hand.


This sort of reminds me of the recent $12,000 mosin thread- it comes down to something as insignificant (or significant) as the number stamped on it.

[Brad Johnson]

I'd think it would have collectable value due to it's source, just not with the value or collectability of a true original.  Think 'original Shelby Cobra' versus later production (but still just as genuine) Shelby American Cobras.

Brad

[never_retreat]

I don't know anything about guitars for the most part.
But if you want to get something made, take a look at this guy.
https://www.facebook.com/louxcustom?fref=ts&ref=br_tf
Shameless plug for someone I know.

[Monkeyleg]

I've been doing more research, which is always a good idea before plunking down a big chunk of cash.

The Hamiltone reproduction guitars started being made around 1998, and were numbered but not signed or dated. Those unsigned, undated guitars continued to be produced until about 2010, with over 1,000 having been made (I saw serial #1010). The signed and dated limited edition models were made in 2004 only, with 100 or fewer made. The ones that are being produced now aren't signed, numbered or dated. Jim Hamilton has no association with their production.

It seems to me that the only ones to have any value would be the signed, numbered and dated models. Even at that, the appreciation on them won't be as much as on 100 limited edition Stevie Ray Vaughan Lenny guitars made by Fender, which sold for $17,000 new.

Fender sold $1.7 million worth of guitars with 100 units. Hamiltone has sold at least $5.5 million with the numbered/not signed and signed/numbered/dated models, and who knows how much with the unsigned, undated, no-number models.

[Hawkmoon]

I have a question for those of you who buy and keep things that are collector items, and keep them as collectibles.

...

Meanwhile, I've located Jimmy Hamilton. I'm tempted to contact him and ask if he's still able to produce the guitars and, if so, what he would want. If he were able to, the upside would be a brand new unscratched model unquestionably made by him. The potential downside would be that it wasn't one of the original 100+ made over that 8 year period. I also don't know his arrangements with his former partner, and so don't know if he can even use the Hamiltone name on the headstock and a certificate.

Even if he can, I question whether the guitar would have the same value as one of the original 100+. Or could it be more collectible because it's not part of a run, and because it would now be a 30th anniversary model?

I think I know the answers to these questions, but thought I'd just ask.

Not a guitar collector, but I do know some serious firearms collectors, as well as a few collectors of other types of things. IMHO a brand new guitar, even if made by Hamilton, would not be worth anything as a collector item. It would be worth whatever a custom guitar by Jim Hamilton sells for. And it wouldn't be a "30th Anniversary Model" unless Jim Hamilton announces publicly that he is building 30th Anniversary copies of his original Stevie Vaughn guitar.

For what that's worth, no serious firearms collector has any interest in commemoratives or "anniversary editions." Just as in real estate the three most important things are location, location and location, in collecting the three most important things are originality, originality and originality.