Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?

[K Frame]

"Don't know if you are old enough to remember when K-C came out with their Kleenex(TM) brand and all the hoopla over how superior it was to other facial tissues."

You were around in 1925?

That's when Kimberly-Clarke first started advertising Kleenex.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I don't shop for kleenex, I shop for tissues.

[Monkeyleg]

Would it really take all that much more time to change your web text than to complain about it on APS ?   

Yes. Much more time.

For the Trijicon MAP hassle, it takes an entire weekend. I sell 48 different ACOG models, and God-knows-how-many other Trijicon products. I'm can't be price competitive on the non-ACOG products, so I just price them at 10% over cost when I'm showing non-MAP prices, and just show MAP prices when Trijicon hassles me about it.

To change from non-MAP prices to MAP prices on the ACOG's, I have to create 48 new attributes for the coupon codes for each model, so that I can create coupon codes for each. Then I have to modify the files for each model to add its new attribute.

Then I have to create new coupon codes for each model, or modify existing coupon codes, in the shopping cart backend. To do that I need to create an Excel file with all of my ACOG sku's and prices. Then I need to take all of Trijicon's MAP prices and do a sort in Excel to find the MAP prices for each sku that I sell. Then I need to subtract my price from the MAP price to come up with the value for the coupon. Then I enter those coupon values in each of the 48 different coupon codes.

Then I need to change the titles and descriptions of each of the 48 ACOG's to instruct the customer to enter the code in the Discount box at checkout, and indicate how much the customer will save (the coupon value). Once the coupon codes are created or updated, the prices changed, and the titles descriptions changed, I upload the new prices, descriptions and titles.

There's two sites where I offer special pricing on various products, including ACOG's. I use different coupon codes for each site. So, after doing all of the above for the general ACOG prices, I have to do pretty much all of the same for the 96 coupon codes for the two sites.

So, yes, it's a lot less work to complain here on APS.

[CNYCacher]

I see a lot of people using an apostrophe followed by "s" to indicate plurality and it activates my inner curmudgeon. Perhaps so much so that I see it where it's not.

I suppose since it says " . . . for Glock's 20/21" and not just " . . . for Glock's" then yes it could be correct possessive use.

I read it as " . . . for Glocks 20 and 21" indicating "Glock 20 and Glock 21" which would be incorrect use of apostrophe to indicate plurality, and you read it as "the 20 and the 21 {by,of,from} Glock" which would be correct use of the apostrophe to indicate possession.

An interesting anomaly of language: the apostrophe is either correct or incorrect depending on the intent of the author.

[K Frame]

As used in that sentence, it appears to mean the guns manufactured by Glock, so Glock's 21/22 is correct.

It's used in the same context as Colt's is on the top three advertisements on this page...

http://www.coltautos.com/1905ci_advertisements.htm

[Tallpine]

Yes. Much more time. ...  So, yes, it's a lot less work to complain here on APS.

I do C/C++ development rather than web stuff, but I'm pretty sure that there are design methods that let you centralize and semi-automate a lot of those changes.

I bet that you could set up your MAP/non-MAP to toggle for all web pages just by changing one attribute somewhere.

And surely you can search all your files for occurences of "Glock" etc 

[GigaBuist]

I do C/C++ development rather than web stuff, but I'm pretty sure that there are design methods that let you centralize and semi-automate a lot of those changes.

I bet that you could set up your MAP/non-MAP to toggle for all web pages just by changing one attribute somewhere.

It's not difficult from a tech standpoint but Monkeyleg isn't a programmer.  So, he's gotta used the system he's stuck with unless he wants to shell out money to change it.

In my own system making coupons for our retail POS isn't fast and clear either.  Why?  Never planned on using them much.  So, rather than spend 40-60 hours to do it right I just snuck in the bare minimum of code needed to make it work in 6-8 hours.  I'll fix it up if we decide to keep doing them next year.

[Monkeyleg]

Thanks, GigaBuist. It also doesn't make sense to pay a programmer to come up with a way to automate changing prices and descriptions to MAP so I can't sell any of those products.

Really, none of this makes much sense to me. Trijicon tells me that they enforce their MAP policies because they don't want their products to be perceived as cheap. I don't think that anyone feels a TA31FRMR is cheap, no matter if they're paying Optics Planet $1850 or me $1600. There's plenty of people who think $1600 is expensive.

[Tallpine]

It's not difficult from a tech standpoint but Monkeyleg isn't a programmer.  So, he's gotta used the system he's stuck with unless he wants to shell out money to change it.

In my own system making coupons for our retail POS isn't fast and clear either.  Why?  Never planned on using them much.  So, rather than spend 40-60 hours to do it right I just snuck in the bare minimum of code needed to make it work in 6-8 hours.  I'll fix it up if we decide to keep doing them next year.

Yeah, that's quite clear    But he is running an online business that requires web programming and trying to do it himself.  That's okay until it gets big or complicated, at which point one needs to learn to do it right or pay someone to at least redesign the whole thing to make it maintainable (or else find another way to earn a living).

[AJ Dual]

Thanks, GigaBuist. It also doesn't make sense to pay a programmer to come up with a way to automate changing prices and descriptions to MAP so I can't sell any of those products.

Really, none of this makes much sense to me. Trijicon tells me that they enforce their MAP policies because they don't want their products to be perceived as cheap. I don't think that anyone feels a TA31FRMR is cheap, no matter if they're paying Optics Planet $1850 or me $1600. There's plenty of people who think $1600 is expensive.

I've run into this attitude in business many times where they worship at the altar of margin to the point they'd rather make $100k @ 10% rather than $1 Million at 2%.

Granted,  it is true that the margin/volume trap kills many businesses,  like many that get squeezed by Walmart,  but I've seen more who refuse to grow at all or chase any increase in market share out of fear of it.

[Monkeyleg]

Yeah, that's quite clear    But he is running an online business that requires web programming and trying to do it himself.  That's okay until it gets big or complicated, at which point one needs to learn to do it right or pay someone to at least redesign the whole thing to make it maintainable (or else find another way to earn a living).

GFY.

[Brad Johnson]

GFY.

Gotta back up Pine one this one. You're at a barrier of where aptitude has become a seriously limiting factor in your ability effectively manage your site.   You really need to consider having your site professionally redesigned for more automation, purchase a site software package with the controls you need, or spend some serious time learning site development on a much more in-dspth basis.

Brad

[Monkeyleg]

Gotta back up Pine one this one. You're at a barrier of where aptitude has become a seriously limiting factor in your ability effectively manage your site.   You really need to consider having your site professionally redesigned for more automation, purchase a site software package with the controls you need, or spend some serious time learning site development on a much more in-dspth basis.

Brad

It is automated. Out of the box, Magento is a good shopping cart system, and I've purchased a lot of plug-ins to handle more customized tasks.

It's not automated to change "Glock" to "for Glock" or "fits Glock" or "factory Glock" or "Glock OEM", and I don't think that there's software that can be written, at least cost effectively, that can discern when which term is proper or sounds the best, and where in the title or description to best insert the words.

As for the coupon codes, if I do much more of that than I am now, I could look at a plug-in for the Magento software I'm using. I don't think it's cost effective to pay a thousand or more for something to generate coupon codes and values, and change titles and descriptions, when it's something I'm doing on a very limited basis.

I've spent several thousand on this site, and I've also had the help of an expert member here on APS, whose favors I will return in the future.

What I do need to do is decide whether to play this game of cat and mouse with Trijicon, or just tell them to take their products and shove them. There's no sense spending time working on updating prices, models, etc for a brand when it's not going to sell.

[Brad Johnson]

What I do need to do is decide whether to play this game of cat and mouse with Trijicon, or just tell them to take their products and shove them. There's no sense spending time working on updating prices, models, etc for a brand when it's not going to sell.

Then it's a straight cost/benefit analysis.

Brad

[GigaBuist]

Gotta back up Pine one this one. You're at a barrier of where aptitude has become a seriously limiting factor in your ability effectively manage your site. 

I disagree with you and Tallpine on this one.  Monkeyleg's problem is trying to figure out how to convince the public that he really does have the best prices without violating MAP policies from the vendors. That isn't a software problem, it's a marketing one.  When he flagrantly disregards MAP policies he sells stuff.  Coupon codes didn't work.  Was it inefficient to the coupon codes in the manner he did?  Yeah.  Should you go into a software design cycle for a retail experiment? No.  Not any more than is required.  I do it myself, and I'm actually a programmer.  My time, to myself, is cheap. On the clock as a contractor?  Not so much.  I won't even pay myself base rate, let alone proper market rate, for a simple experiment.  Monkeyleg would be stupid to do what I wouldn't.  A couple extra hours slugging through Excel and uploading docs beats a $10k bill for custom work that might not pay off.

He doesn't have a tech problem.  He has an online retail marketing problem.  You can't tech your way out of that until you know the actual solution.  If it weren't for MAP policies his solution would be as simple as UPDATE products SET price = msrp*.80; ... BOOM done.

My only advise, and I think I've said this before, is to look to other online retailers.  Amazon being king.  "Add to cart" probably doesn't work well for you because of limited exposure and people being finicky about which product they buy.  Maybe offering $x toward the next purchase to bring the cost below MAP would work.  I know Amazon does that with games which basically puts them at a 30% discount if you pre-order.  That seems to work for them somehow.  Mail in rebate to yourself?  No idea. 

[Monkeyleg]

Then it's a straight cost/benefit analysis.

Yep. The ACOG scopes were my highest-profit items, until Buds and GrabAGun and some other sites forced me to cut the prices to $50 above my cost. Optics Planet, too. They sell ACOG's for less than what I pay for them, and Trijicon tells me they're "trying" to get Optics Planet to comply with MAP.

Tallpine, I'm sorry for being an ass****. I'm ornery about some private things lately, and your post hit me at the wrong time.

[Tallpine]

Okay ... I was just trying to come up with a technical solution to a stated "problem".  If you wanted to play price games with Trijicon or anybody else, having a way to change the value of one global variable that toggled all relevant pages between $MAP and $(some % x MAP) would be helpful.

OTOH, you could just stick to selling moccassins 

[KD5NRH]

It's not automated to change "Glock" to "for Glock" or "fits Glock" or "factory Glock" or "Glock OEM", and I don't think that there's software that can be written, at least cost effectively, that can discern when which term is proper or sounds the best, and where in the title or description to best insert the words.

No, but those are all contained in text files somewhere.  Find the right stack of directories, and a batch search-and-replace becomes trivial.

As for the coupon codes, if I do much more of that than I am now, I could look at a plug-in for the Magento software I'm using. I don't think it's cost effective to pay a thousand or more for something to generate coupon codes and values, and change titles and descriptions, when it's something I'm doing on a very limited basis.

Well, you really only need one very easily available 50% off code, then double all your prices.  MAP met.

[cordex]

No, but those are all contained in text files somewhere.  Find the right stack of directories, and a batch search-and-replace becomes trivial.

In Magento they are all stored in a database, for which search-and-replace is even easier.  The problem as I understand it is that in some places you want to change "Glock" to "Glock OEM".  In other places you want change it to "fits Glock" or "for Glock" or whatever.  Universal search and replace doesn't fit this instance.

[Tallpine]

In Magento they are all stored in a database, for which search-and-replace is even easier.  The problem as I understand it is that in some places you want to change "Glock" to "Glock OEM".  In other places you want change it to "fits Glock" or "for Glock" or whatever.  Universal search and replace doesn't fit this instance.

It would be a lot of work, but it beats just sitting around hanging out on APS 

Is it a 6V or 12V Magneto    

[Monkeyleg]

For something like this in Magento, you do an export using something as a filter. In this case I used the "description" column with "Glock" as the filter, and exported the file containing any items that had Glock in the description. Brought it into Excel, took the Glock sku's into their own file and changed "Glock" to "Glock OEM". Sometimes it says "Glock OEM" three times in a paragraph, but I can't hand-edit each one.

For the other sku's, I looked at what was written, and putting "for Glock" in almost all of them worked. So, just substitute "for Glock" for "Glock".

I did a quick read of everything and made hand changes where it seemed really necessary.

The sharks were happy, and just wanted the disclaimer at the bottom of every page that mentioned Glock. I told them I'd put the disclaimer in the Terms and Conditions page, but I wasn't going to screw around with the CSS and phtml files to try to make it fit without screwing up the design. They said they could live with that.