Woo-hoo - we made the Drudge Report!

[Perd Hapley]

tear gassing reporters and people on their own property seems to be a little much.

This sounds a little like, "unarmed Trayvon Martin/Michael Brown." I'm about tired of people constantly phrasing things in this way, as if that explains anything. Being on your own property doesn't make you not a threat, or mean that you can't reasonably be seen as a threat. Nor does being unarmed, or being a reporter.

You may all now stupidly assume that I am siding with the police in these instances, when of course I am not.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Stand on your front lawn as the riot police move in on crowd in front of your house? Darwin may not smile but he might grin a lil.

Tear gas is a might indiscriminate and reporters take their chances. I know i would regard live feeds being viewed by rioters as enemy intelligence gathering and would be inclined to treat it as such. Particularly if folks had been threatening to go to war


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[Perd Hapley]

Stay away from West St Louis also.

Scratching my head over this bit of advice. Traveling east to west, if you avoid the city itself, then I would think you would also avoid "West St. Louis." Though to be fair, I've never heard of West St. Louis, so I'm not sure where that would be.

Ferguson is one of the northern suburbs of St. Louis, a region known locally as "North County" (actually the northern part of St. Louis County).

West of the city proper, you do have some less attractive areas that border North County (maybe some on the southern edge, too, but I'm not as familiar therewith). In any case, once you get well away from the city proper, and avoid the north side, you're OK. If you travel due west through the western 'burbs, you're only in danger of being pulled over for failing to drive a late-model German import.

[Balog]

This sounds a little like, "unarmed Trayvon Martin/Michael Brown." I'm about tired of people constantly phrasing things in this way, as if that explains anything. Being on your own property doesn't make you not a threat, or mean that you can't reasonably be seen as a threat. Nor does being unarmed, or being a reporter.

You may all now stupidly assume that I am siding with the police in these instances, when of course I am not.

Have you seen the incidents he is referring to? Reporters clearly just filming and nowhere near anyone who could be considered a threat, were targeted for tear gas and as soon as they ran off the cops rolled up and took down their camera gear, knocked over the lights and pointed the camera at the ground. Pretty clearly suppression of the press, not legitimate riot control. People who were standing in the own front yards might certainly be a lethal threat justifying use of force, but they can't really be considered rioters or looters thus justifying hitting them with gas or rubber bullets.

So yes, theoretically a reporter or an unarmed person standing in their yard might be a threat needing force used against them, but not in the actual cases we are discussing.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Story where he admits to robbery
Great witness


http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/
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[dogmush]

Stand on your front lawn as the riot police move in on crowd in front of your house? Darwin may not smile but he might grin a lil.

Tear gas is a might indiscriminate and reporters take their chances. I know i would regard live feeds being viewed by rioters as enemy intelligence gathering and would be inclined to treat it as such. Particularly if folks had been threatening to go to war

Actual soldiers in actual war zones don't get to do that* so you might want to reconsider letting wannabe soldiers in St. Louis give it a go.

*the DOD does exercise some control over embedded reporters but that power is explicitly denied to the troops they are embedded with,  not the equivalent of cops with tear gas.

[Fitz]

Tear gas is a might indiscriminate and reporters take their chances. I know i would regard live feeds being viewed by rioters as enemy intelligence gathering and would be inclined to treat it as such. Particularly if folks had been threatening to go to war

When in Iraq, fighting the Medhi Army and AQ, I was NOT allowed to use gas on agitated crowds. Nor rubber bullets. Nor was anyone else. It was EXPRESSLY prohibited.

[Perd Hapley]

Have you seen the incidents he is referring to?

No.

I said:

[Don't] assume that I am siding with the police in these instances, when of course I am not.

My apologies to SteveS. I can't really expect people to spell out every little detail in a forum post. He was probably just being concise.

Reporters clearly just filming and nowhere near anyone who could be considered a threat, were targeted for tear gas and as soon as they ran off the cops rolled up and took down their camera gear, knocked over the lights and pointed the camera at the ground. Pretty clearly suppression of the press, not legitimate riot control. People who were standing in the own front yards might certainly be a lethal threat justifying use of force, but they can't really be considered rioters or looters thus justifying hitting them with gas or rubber bullets.

I guess this is the information I was asking for. I haven't seen some of the footage that others have seen. Also, I'm trying to deal with the cognitive dissonance of this event clueing people into the militarization of police, when they've ignored it in less rioty-looty conditions. I guess those smaller events didn't get as much news coverage.

[lee n. field]

I just realized what they need in Ferguson.

Lots of rain.

forty days and nights.

[RoadKingLarry]

forty days and nights.

Either that or a large meteorite strike, something in the 100 meter size should do.

[RoadKingLarry]

I guess they aren't doing it right in Tulsa.
Here it's been 10 days snce the cop killed his daughter's boy friend and no charges filed.
So far as I've heard hasn't been a single riot.

http://www.newson6.com/story/26288821/rally-planned-for-tulsa-teen-reportedly-shot-killed-by-tulsa-police-officer

[Perd Hapley]

I just realized what they need in Ferguson.

Lots of rain.

Coool. Looks like we'll have rain all weekend.


FWIW:

I went for a jog in the park yesterday, and the black kids were playing with the white kids, as usual. This is about six miles from Ferguson.

[Ron]

Why does the rioting and unrest seem to frequently occur in support of the most unsympathetic characters? If anything good comes out of this it will be the slowing down temporarily of the growing military police state. For about 15 minutes.

[zxcvbob]

So Michael Brown had just robbed a store, but the cop didn't know that.  But he didn't know that the cop didn't know about it.  That makes for an interesting (and dangerous for everybody) dynamic. 

First shot could very easily have been justified.  Then the cop executed Brown as he was surrendering, because he was pissed about getting slugged in the face as they struggled at the car.  Or maybe not, but it still looks that way to me.

[Ben]

The video footage seems to have upticked the looting. Doesn't make it look good for the community, especially after the change in LE leadership dealing with the situation. Also, when the Highway Patrol saw the looting start, they pulled back to "deescalate". I'm only armchair quarterbacking, but I think looting is exactly when you go in and break some heads. I've never understood the concept of "letting them do it so they can blow off steam". It's a disgusting behavior that requires a strong response - regardless of the circumstances surrounding it. That goes the same for the yuppie white kids that flip over cars and break stuff when their sports team loses, and the "anarchist" white kids that throw molotovs and destroy businesses in whatever city the G-8 happens to be visiting.

I didn't know that Brown has been positively identified from the video, but yeah, that kinda maybe changes things.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/16/ferguson-shooting-police-standoff/

[wmenorr67]

I guess they aren't doing it right in Tulsa.
Here it's been 10 days snce the cop killed his daughter's boy friend and no charges filed.
So far as I've heard hasn't been a single riot.

http://www.newson6.com/story/26288821/rally-planned-for-tulsa-teen-reportedly-shot-killed-by-tulsa-police-officer

Yep this one is a head scratcher.  The day after this happened the dad cop's attorney was all over saying that there was a justifiable defense.  Funny thing is cop didn't stick around and made the police find his SUV.

The video footage seems to have upticked the looting. Doesn't make it look good for the community, especially after the change in LE leadership dealing with the situation. Also, when the Highway Patrol saw the looting start, they pulled back to "deescalate". I'm only armchair quarterbacking, but I think looting is exactly when you go in and break some heads. I've never understood the concept of "letting them do it so they can blow off steam". It's a disgusting behavior that requires a strong response - regardless of the circumstances surrounding it. That goes the same for the yuppie white kids that flip over cars and break stuff when their sports team loses, and the "anarchist" white kids that throw molotovs and destroy businesses in whatever city the G-8 happens to be visiting.

I didn't know that Brown has been positively identified from the video, but yeah, that kinda maybe changes things.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/16/ferguson-shooting-police-standoff/

The buddy admitted to the theft.

[Boomhauer]

Then the cop executed Brown as he was surrendering, because he was pissed about getting slugged in the face as they struggled at the car.  Or maybe not, but it still looks that way to me.

Oh share with us the full details of the encounter, oh clairvoyant one! So do you know exactly what happened, or are you putting forth theories? Because from what I've seen, not much of the real details of the encounter has been released but damn sure every talking head on TV is calling it "murder" based on their FEELINGS. The only solid details we do know is that a *expletive deleted*in huge guy just strong-armed a store where he choked a store clerk and then he proceeds down the street where he encounters a police officer later, and I doubt that it was a peaceful encounter that resulted in Brown getting shot. But once again, we don't really know the details other than the encounter happened, the officer has a visible facial injury, and Brown is in the morgue. But, do tell me, how do you think a fight with a 300lb 6'2" guy is going to go for the average person?

The whole hoopla is not much different than the exalted experts claiming that Tony Stewart "damn well meant to hit that kid" in the sprint car. Everybody's an expert, nobody is taking the time to step back and consider the facts and withhold judgement until details come out.

Also, I really want to know how the same news media that can't get one *expletive deleted* detail right when it comes to 2nd amendment issues, defense encounters, etc is suddenly a trusted source of information.

[Triphammer]

If we are to believe the second witness, this was murder. I know, no video. But, first shot, in the car, good shoot. Second shot maybe third, fleeing felon, good shoot. the follow up shots till he's down. NOT good shot.

[zxcvbob]

Oh share with us the full details of the encounter, oh clairvoyant one! So do you know exactly what happened, or are you putting forth theories? Because from what I've seen, not much of the real details of the encounter has been released but damn sure every talking head on TV is calling it "murder" based on their FEELINGS. The only solid details we do know is that a F'in huge guy just strong-armed a store where he choked a store clerk and then he proceeds down the street where he encounters a police officer later, and I doubt that it was a peaceful encounter that resulted in Brown getting shot. But once again, we don't really know the details other than the encounter happened, the officer has a visible facial injury, and Brown is in the morgue. But, do tell me, how do you think a fight with a 300lb 6'2" guy is going to go for the average person?

I don't have full details yet, my opinion is changing as more evidence surfaces.  All the eyewitnesses say Brown had stopped and had his hands up when the cop shot him multiple times.  Eyewitnesses are not very reliable, and these are all saying different things; this is the one point they all agree on.  IMHO, that's better than everybody saying the same thing like they had rehearsed it.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I don't have full details yet, my opinion is changing as more evidence surfaces.  All the eyewitnesses say Brown had stopped and had his hands up when the cop shot him multiple times.  Eyewitnesses are not very reliable, and these are all saying different things; this is the one point they all agree on.  IMHO, that's better than everybody saying the same thing like they had rehearsed it.

Demonstrably untrue
You forgot one witness
So far there are 4 and one is a proven liar and the other 2 got to the party late

[Perd Hapley]

One wonders what the point was of bringing in the Highway Patrol.

[Perd Hapley]

So Michael Brown had just robbed a store, but the cop didn't know that.  But he didn't know that the cop didn't know about it.  That makes for an interesting (and dangerous for everybody) dynamic. 

Indeed. Brown is hostile, expecting arrest; the cop is caught by surprise.

[Angel Eyes]

[Boomhauer]

Yo, I liberated these Air Jordans from the man in honor of Michael Brown!

[Boomhauer]