You ever wonder what happened to that idiot that ran the red light?

[Ringer]

Supposedly this is an actual voicemail message from a guy running late for a meeting.  Don't know if it's for real, but either way this guy is pretty funny.  (no profanity, or none that I recall)

http://home.swbell.net/kf5tv/voicemail.mp3

[K Frame]

I think red light runners should be hanged by their testicles.

[mtnbkr]

There would be a lot of folks hanging about around here then.  We'll have to find prosthetic testicles for the females since they seem to run red lights at roughly the same rate as males.

We were stopped at a red light the other day and no fewer than 7 folks ran the light AFTER it turned green for us.  That means 3-4 made it through right as it turned red.

Chris

[Jamisjockey]

There would be a lot of folks hanging about around here then.  We'll have to find prosthetic testicles for the females since they seem to run red lights at roughly the same rate as males.

We were stopped at a red light the other day and no fewer than 7 folks ran the light AFTER it turned green for us.  That means 3-4 made it through right as it turned red.

Chris

Glad to see that selfish epidemic isn't endemic to here.  Here its primarily the turn lights, though.  People keep going even after the protected arrow turns red.

[K Frame]

And the rampant redlight running is one of the reasons I was so furious when the Virginia assmebly left the red light camera extension bill die in committee this year. All red light cameras in Virginia will be shut down, IIRC, Jully 1.

Women have other appendages by which they can be hanged.

It's not at all uncommon to see bungholes run red lights in Northern Virginia WELL after the light is red, and the opposing traffic is going.

I almost caught a T-bone a few years ago when a moron, fighting with his wife, decided to scare her by running the red light.

He scared her, alright. He also badly injured the person in the lane next to me who was a lot faster coming off the line.

[mtnbkr]

I'm not sad to see the cameras go away since they were never about public safety, but revenue (remember when several localities got busted for shortening the yellow light duration?).  I'd probably have more interest in them if the damn cops would pull people over for blatantly running red lights, but they don't.  I've sat in the lane right next to a local cop as car after car run a solid read light (as opposed to one that has just changed while people are in the intersection).  I've never seen a cop go out of his way to stop this practice.

Chris

[grampster]

It seems this disease is prevalent everywhere, judging from the posts.  Here in W. Michigan, leo's from neighboring jurisdictions mob up and run in roving bands throughout the area and set up on lights and write scads of tickets.  News media lets everyone know when and where they are going to be, generally, just to be fair to folks.  Leo's get lots of 'em anywhoo.
As much as I don't like "selective enforcement" (that's what this is called, by the way, boys and girls), I think red light runners are the worst breed of cat and agree with snagging them, wholesale.  
I never, ever start up on a green light without looking both ways, twice, before going.  I also am wary when having the green when approaching an intersection.
Defensive driving has never been more important than today.

[P95Carry]

Round here - not too bad, it seems from what some folks are saying.  However - the need for defensive driving is certainly ever more a wise move.  One of my biking mantras is ''don't assume'' - and whatever I am driving I try and follow this.  So a red light intersection may well, at any time - have some dipstick running his red - so yes - look both ways, that's a must.

Hey Mike - how ya doin?

[grampster]

When driving, my mantra is..."everybody else is drunk or crazy or both."

[K Frame]

" I've never seen a cop go out of his way to stop this practice."

I don't know what the Joe Donuts do in your (red)neck of the woods, but I've seen several red light runners snagged by cops here in Fairfax over the years.

I disagree that the red light cameras are solely about revenue generation, but even if they are, so what? If they reduce the instances of red light running at known dangerous intersections while generating some revenue, it's a win-win situation as far as I'm concerned. I'm much happier about that sort of revenue generation than a hike in property tax or sales tax rates.

And, even if they are about revenue generation, it's REAL easy to avoid being part of the revenue generation stream. You simply don't run red lights.

"remember when several localities got busted for shortening the yellow light duration?"

I heard about this happening in other states, but never in Virginia. But, that's a jurisdictional issue, given that the cameras are emplaced by localities, not the state. At least here in Virginia.

[kudu]

We have a major problem here with semis' running red lights.  I never cross a major highway without looking several times if something is coming.  I lost one of my best friends 2 years ago when he was t-boned by a semi running a red light.  My friend was the third person in his lane to go with the flow of traffic.  The car behind him was also knocked out of the way but that person was only slightly injured.

[mtnbkr]

I don't know what the Joe Donuts do in your (red)neck of the woods, but I've seen several red light runners snagged by cops here in Fairfax over the years.

I've also seen people running red lights right in front of cops without any response in Centreville, Vienna, and Mclean.  I don't drive enough in Fairfax (and I66 has few traffic lights) to notice whether or not the cops do their job there.

Chris

[K Frame]

So have you taken the cruiser number and contacted the watch sergeant or lieutenant of the applicable police force to voice your complaints and ask why the officer in cruiser XXX is allowing people to wantonly run red lights with no effort at enforcement?

Part of the solution, or part of the problem? Your choice.

[Jamisjockey]

I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one:
So the cop sat and watched the guy run a red light?  You're assuming the cop had nothing better to do.  What if he was on his way to a call that required more attention than a red-light-runner?  What if he was off-duty?  What if he was on his way to court to testify against a real criminal?  Don't jump to conclusions so quickly about the po-po.

Red-light runners are symptom of whats wrong with American 'fast-food' culture: We want everything and we want it now.  We're fat, selfish, and lazy.

[mtnbkr]

So have you taken the cruiser number

The last time I was in a position to get that info and had something to write it down with, I did so.  Unfortunately, I was unable to make the call once I got to my destination.  My fault.

You're assuming the cop had nothing better to do.  What if he was on his way to a call that required more attention than a red-light-runner?

If they're sitting idly at a traffic light, they can't be in too big of a hurry.  Don't take this as a knock against the police, it isn't, but it's getting damn annoying that local govts think the solution is technology rather than old fashion enforcement.

Chris

[K Frame]

And I'd much rather have technology at the known problem intersections.

What's the alternative? A cop 24x7x365 at all of the known problem intersections? You may want your taxes to go through the roof to provide for semi-dedicated traffic light sitters, but I certainly don't. Why do I say semi-dedicated? Because while they've nabbed somone, someone else is running the red light without fear of encountering enforcement measures.

You're yelling about the cops being arbitary in their enforcement duties, but you're also yelling about a proven enforcement solution that ISN'T arbitrary?

What the hell is wrong with that picture?

[Jamisjockey]

So have you taken the cruiser number

The last time I was in a position to get that info and had something to write it down with, I did so.  Unfortunately, I was unable to make the call once I got to my destination.  My fault.

You're assuming the cop had nothing better to do.  What if he was on his way to a call that required more attention than a red-light-runner?

If they're sitting idly at a traffic light, they can't be in too big of a hurry.  Don't take this as a knock against the police, it isn't, but it's getting damn annoying that local govts think the solution is technology rather than old fashion enforcement.

Chris

Not everything is going to require lights and sirens.  The officer could be on his way to investigate a theft, assault, donut sale, or something else serious.

[mtnbkr]

I didn't ask for dedicated babysitters, I want the cops who witness the crime to do their jobs.  

BTW, this is an interesting side effect of red light cameras:
"Red-light violations declined by more than 20 percent in four of the seven jurisdictions, according to the study. However, the study also showed that the number of rear-end crashes has increased at some intersections. "

From: http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20050218-103519-4172r.htm

Chris

[K Frame]

I've seen that "study."

The Times provided no hard or fast numbers to back up the claim that there are more rear end accidents.

The Times also completely ignored any effect the red light cameras may have had on T-bone or corner to corner accidents caused by idiots running red lights.

Given the way most cars are constructed these days, a rear ender is FAR preferable to a T-bone.


I also find the comments that it's a Constitutional privacy issue to be hysterical.

No expectation of privacy attaches to one driving on public roads in their car. To try to claim that it does goes against over 1,000 years of Danegeld, English Common, and even Code Napoleon laws. No court has ever held that one's privacy has been violated by these cameras, simply because the expectation of privacy doesn't exist.

The concept of the "right to be left alone" is also wonderful, but the person who said it is too stupid to realize that those 5 words could apply to ANY extra legal situation.

I want to kill my neighbor, but why should I be prosecuted? That violates my "right" to be "left alone." What utter and complete crap. A violation of law means that you immediately forefeit your supposed "right" to be left alone.


I also think the claims of revenue generation ring hollow, simply because the cameras are having a deterrent effect at many intersections. As deterrence goes up, fines levied go down.


The confronting one's accuser is also a smokescreen. No court has ever agreed that these cameras violate your right to "confront your accuser," and I fully agree. Photographic evidence is even surer than a human's supposed "eye witness" testimony. Your car was either in the intersection when the light was red, or it wasn't. Pretty simple.

[DustinD]

A lot of red light running is the result of engineering problems with the intersections. I have never seen such bad red light running as what you guys have described, so maybe disregard that coment in your case. Also, red light cameras are not very effective and a few states are taking them down, I am not sure if any are adding more.

Being a motorcyclist every car that wants to get onto the road has problems with pulling out in front of me, and merging into my lane. So far intersections have not been worse than in my car.

[K Frame]

Red light running is pretty epidemic here, Dustin.

I disagree that red light cameras have been ineffective.

There's one 1/4 mile from my house, on a traffic circle.

Before the camera went up there, it was not at all uncommon to see people run the lights westbound for upwards 10 seconds after it had turned red. I'm not talking incidental red light running, I'm talking calculated. It's a main commuter route, so a lot of people travel it every day during their commutes.

It was that traffic circle where the guy T-boned the car next to me (I would have gotten it had I been quicker off the line) because he wanted to scare his wife, with whom he was fighting, by blowing the red light.

The camera went up several years ago, and since then the number of people running the light west bound has dropped to perhaps 1/50th of its previous level, and it now seems largely incidental, not calculated.

I predict that by the end of this year, 6 months after the cameras come down, red light running at that circle will again be a monumental problem, and the number of T-bones and corner to corner accidents will jump dramatically.

[BrokenPaw]

Mike,

If I'm correct, you're talking about Fairfax Circle.  And if you are, then I need to point out for the unfamiliar masses that it's possibly the most ludicrous traffic-routing goat rodeo that it's possible to imagine.  

Traffic circles exist so that traffic can go around it, so that people coming in can merge together with the flow, and then exit the circle at whichever of the outgoing points they require without ever stopping.  Thus, in theory, getting somewhere without delay.  

However, comma, because so very many people need to go straight through on Route 50, east in the morning and west in the afternoon, VDOT decided that the best solution would be to punch that road right through the middle of the circle, and put traffic lights where the circle and the road intersect.  

So instead of two roads meeting at a light, which would be reasonable under the circumstances, and instead of a pure traffic circle, which would be less reasonable but at least sane, we have a not-quite-traffic-circle-yet-again-not-quite-intersection that is intrinsically dangerous because it's unlike any other traffic-flow scheme in the region.  It lacks the advantages of a simple traffic light, because there are two lights instead of one, and to turn left you have to go right, and then wait at the light to cross the road you were already on.  It lacks the purported advantages of a true circle, because no matter which direction you want to go, unless it's "straight through the middle", you're waiting at a light anyway.

Granted, wankers running the lights are a problem, but the real solution should involve blowing the whole thing away and putting a sane intersection in, and then enforcing the red lights.

-BP

[K Frame]

Paw,

Yes, Fairfax Circle.

Here's the rub, though. The only camera at that intersection is on Westbound 50 on the straight through lanes. No turning involved at all. It's the westbound commuters, the ones traveling in a straight line, especially in the evening, who can't quite comprehend the concept that red means stop.


This is also the exact reason why a camera was erected at the intersection of 50 West and Jaguar Trail, and that's a pure "square box" intersection. There's no potential for confusion at that intersection, either, just people who don't give a damn that the red light means stop, so I disagree with you that the circle layout is the true cause of the problem.

I agree that it would be nice if Fairfax Circle were blown away and replaced with a square box intersection, but would the red light running west bound cease with the absence of a circle? No, not if the results from every other square box intersection in Fairfax County are any indication.

[mtnbkr]

While I was out running errands during lunch, I was at the intersection just behind the main RT123/International Dr intersection (the one between the big intersection and the mall) and saw a guy sitting at an orange light because the traffic ahead was about the back up into the intersection (this was going towards 123).  The jerkwad behind him sped around him and got in line, hanging out into the intersection, right as it turned red.  

Chris

[XLMiguel]

I live about 2 miles east ot Tyson Corner.  We don't have a morning and evening rush here, it's all damn day long.  Approximately 140K people come into Tysons to work each day, and there is no shortage of proctologically challenged, brain-dead, self-absorbed mobile morons hereabouts (and amazing number have DC amd MD plates on their vehicles, too, it's not just a VA thing).

As with 'gun control', the laws only work when they're enforced.  Red light cameras are only slightly more effective than 'ballistic fingerprinting' IMO.  I have one by my house where the ramp from I66 joins Rt 7.  There have been a few accidents there, but nothing too silly compared the rampant assholery and bufoonery that occurs at the next light a block away at 7 and Idyllwood - there are accidents there almost daily, some pretty heinous.  If the redlight cameras were really about public saftey, well, they really missed the boat on placement in my neighborhood.   Nothing calms the buttmunches down better than a cruiser with the party lights on.