So How Militarized is your Police Agency

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Militarized in equipment or attitude?  Both concern me.

[T.O.M.]

Interesting how things got named on this list.  My county is listed as getting an APC.  It's a HUMVEE.  I've seen it.  Local vocational school painted it for them in the same design as their cruisers. 

My favorites?  14 rugs and two picture frames.

[RevDisk]

Some safes, a bunch of tools, some first aid kits, some sleeping mats, couple radios, a lot of magazines, dozen rifles, cold weather gear, 31 "sustainment pouch" (WTF?)

No APCs. Though I have seen the armored car that Lancaster police have. Their SWAT team did have a booth at some community event. Nice of them to show off their MTOE. The two officers at the booth did have a very worrisome attitude that disturbed me far more than if my county was given a dozen main battle tanks.

Qualified immunity in the wrong hands is far more dangerous than heavy mechanized battalion's worth of equipment.

[Nick1911]

My part of KC; a bunch of 5.56 rifles, and an MRAP. 

In the interest of maintaining a balance of power, I think this means I need to file a Form 1 for a few HEAT rockets. 

[Jocassee]

Greenville County SC--

SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/13/2006
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/13/2006
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/13/2006
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/13/2006
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $120.00   10/29/2010
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/18/2008
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/18/2008
SC   GREENVILLE   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00

The only thing I can imagine is causing the price discrepancy is auto vs full auto but that seems like a huge gap. And I would love to know what they're purchasing in 7.62 that they only paid $138.

[Balog]

My part of KC; a bunch of 5.56 rifles, and an MRAP. 

In the interest of maintaining a balance of power, I think this means I need to file a Form 1 for a few HEAT rockets. 

Fighting them on the move is a sucker's game. They gotta live near you to oppress you, get 'em while they're parked.  

[Balog]

Here's what we got. Not as bad as I was expecting actually. Interesting that they got so many .38's, I don't know of any dept that still issues those. 

WA   SNOHOMISH   BALLISTIC INSERTS   10   EA   $500.00   
WA   SNOHOMISH   DISK,TURBINE,AIRCRAFT GAS TURBINE ENGINE   3   Each   $3,979.36   10/28/2009
WA   SNOHOMISH   HELICOPTER,OBSERVATION   1   Unknown   $0.00   2/26/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   HELMET,ADVANCED COMBAT   2   Each   $280.80   12/21/2009
WA   SNOHOMISH   HELMET,ADVANCED COMBAT   5   Each   $280.80   12/21/2009
WA   SNOHOMISH   HELMET,ADVANCED COMBAT   4   Each   $280.80   12/21/2009
WA   SNOHOMISH   IMAGE INTENSIFIER,NIGHT VISION   1   Each   $6,800.00   4/15/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   IMAGE INTENSIFIER,NIGHT VISION   1   Each   $6,800.00   4/15/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   IMAGE INTENSIFIER,NIGHT VISION   1   Each   $6,800.00   4/15/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   IMAGE INTENSIFIER,NIGHT VISION   1   Each   $6,800.00   4/15/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   MINE RESISTANT VEHICLE   1   Each   $658,000.00   9/9/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   POCKET,GP MEDIUM   20   Each   $27.20   5/22/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Unknown   $0.00   5/28/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Unknown   $0.00   5/28/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Unknown   $0.00   5/28/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Unknown   $0.00   5/28/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Each   $89.57   9/16/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Each   $89.57   9/16/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Each   $89.57   9/16/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   REVOLVER,CALIBER .38 SPECIAL   1   Each   $89.57   9/16/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   12/11/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   1/5/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   1/5/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   3/14/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   3/14/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $499.00   3/14/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   12/7/2006
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   7/9/2008
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/3/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/3/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/3/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER   1   Each   $138.00   11/3/2010
WA   SNOHOMISH   TIRE,PNEUMATIC,VEHICULAR   4   Each   $893.53   11/26/2013
WA   SNOHOMISH   TRUCK,UTILITY   1   Each   $25,000.00   8/19/2011
WA   SNOHOMISH   TRUCK,UTILITY   1   Each   $41,253.00   8/4/2011

[Nick1911]

Fighting them on the move is a sucker's game. They gotta live near you to oppress you, get 'em while they're parked.  

   true

[Monkeyleg]

Mine bought one mine resistant vehicle, about half a dozen 5.56 rifles, a helicopter observation (whatever that is), a ton of computer stuff, an ice maker, and a lot of other non-threatening items.

I've never seen a SWAT team here. That's not to say there isn't one, but I've never seen any officers in SWAT gear, or a vehicle marked as such.

I know that the county to the north of us has a SWAT team. The deputy who instructed the driver safety class I took wouldn't let us forget that he was on the SWAT team.

[MechAg94]

My county just go about 15 rifles and a couple dozen reflex sights. 

My parents county got a few rifles, but also some trucks, dump trucks, trailers and tires. 

I don't see much tacticool stuff.

[fifth_column]

Racine County, WI. 

A boat, boat trailer, rifles, pistols, ballistic eye wear, and, oh yeah . . . 2 grenade launchers!?!?!     And 1, $460,000 "COMPLETE COMBAT/ASSAULT/TACTICAL WHEELED VEHICLES"   

Plus, apparently they paid $60 for .45 pistols and 120 for 5.56 rifles.  Man, I want to see those prices in my local gun shop . . .

The records only go up to 2010.  Who knows what's been brought in-house in the last four years.

[Scout26]

It would be interesting to find out if the Rifle, 7.62mm are the old M21/M24 sniper rifles or SAW's.

[Boomhauer]

a helicopter observation (whatever that is)

Either an old OH-6 or an OH-58. Seen a lot of the first go out. Basically it's the mil version of the MD 520.

2 grenade launchers!?!?!

To serve as 40mm less lethal launchers, I bet.

It would be interesting to find out if the Rifle, 7.62mm are the old M21/M24 sniper rifles or SAW's.

M249 SAW is a 5.56 LMG...

[KD5NRH]

Mine bought one mine resistant vehicle,

Next county over got one of those...I'm wondering if it might be practical as a brush truck for the fire department; the ability to drive over fences, through heavy brush and fresh-burned areas without damage can be really useful when trying to get an advantageous position in a wildfire, or to get the crew away from one.  Definitely not situations where you can just hop out and change a tire, or unwrap the barbed wire from the axle before continuing.

A lot of the serious brush trucks and tankers at the VFDs around here are surplus military gear.  They can be tricky to maintain, but when you've got to make an alternate route in a hurry, they work.

[Ben]

While looking through the CA counties, I found it interesting the LA county had 146 pages of stuff, with a ton of tactical stuff, while San Diego county only had 18 pages, with not that much tactical stuff. Given San Diego county is on the Mexican border, I would have figured they'd be trying for more vehicles and helos and such, but their orders were much more benign.

[Tallpine]

Next county over got one of those...I'm wondering if it might be practical as a brush truck for the fire department; the ability to drive over fences, through heavy brush and fresh-burned areas without damage can be really useful when trying to get an advantageous position in a wildfire, or to get the crew away from one.  Definitely not situations where you can just hop out and change a tire, or unwrap the barbed wire from the axle before continuing.

A lot of the serious brush trucks and tankers at the VFDs around here are surplus military gear.  They can be tricky to maintain, but when you've got to make an alternate route in a hurry, they work.

I doubt it ... the MRAPs would be too heavy and awkward for off road fire suppression, and likely don't have a very good payload for water.  Those "skidgines" (logging skidder combined with water tank and nozzle) would be handy though.

[Balog]

MRAPs are mine resistant not fire resistant.

[Boomhauer]

Next county over got one of those...I'm wondering if it might be practical as a brush truck for the fire department; the ability to drive over fences, through heavy brush and fresh-burned areas without damage can be really useful when trying to get an advantageous position in a wildfire, or to get the crew away from one.  Definitely not situations where you can just hop out and change a tire, or unwrap the barbed wire from the axle before continuing.

A lot of the serious brush trucks and tankers at the VFDs around here are surplus military gear.  They can be tricky to maintain, but when you've got to make an alternate route in a hurry, they work.

Absolutely not.

MRAPs are good on roads, but offroad they suck pretty bad.

It'd be a no-go.

Your best bet for obstacles and challenging terrain is a tracked machine, and for soft ground an LGP tracked machine.

[Scout26]

M249 SAW is a 5.56 LMG...

Sorry, I meant the M240B

[KD5NRH]

I doubt it ... the MRAPs would be too heavy and awkward for off road fire suppression, and likely don't have a very good payload for water.

Stripping off the side and top armor (leaving the bottom as basically a hellacious skidplate) would allow a lot of extra weight capacity for a water tank, and most of the fire areas around here tend to be really uneven hardpan; in the drought (fire) season, it's more like very mild bouldering than mudding, but with the need to be able to drive over small to medium trees.

Now, when it rains properly, it's a different story, but there aren't nearly as many wildfires when the ground is soupy.

[Tuco]

Hidden amongst rifles 5.56mm, cold weather gear, night vision goggles and a bugle are a couple handfuls of burst cams, at 4 bucks apiece.

[Tallpine]

Stripping off the side and top armor (leaving the bottom as basically a hellacious skidplate) would allow a lot of extra weight capacity for a water tank, and most of the fire areas around here tend to be really uneven hardpan; in the drought (fire) season, it's more like very mild bouldering than mudding, but with the need to be able to drive over small to medium trees.

Now, when it rains properly, it's a different story, but there aren't nearly as many wildfires when the ground is soupy.

Most of the bigger vehicles are just used as water tender to supply the smaller "brush trucks" (typically 1-ton dually 4x4s with 200 gallon tanks).  So there really isn't that great a need to cover extremely rough ground.  The 6x6 trucks do well as tenders except they are slow on the highway and are limited to about 1000-1500 gallons.  The best rough ground fire fighting rig is a helicopter with a water bucket  

[Boomhauer]

Stripping off the side and top armor (leaving the bottom as basically a hellacious skidplate) would allow a lot of extra weight capacity for a water tank, and most of the fire areas around here tend to be really uneven hardpan; in the drought (fire) season, it's more like very mild bouldering than mudding, but with the need to be able to drive over small to medium trees.

Now, when it rains properly, it's a different story, but there aren't nearly as many wildfires when the ground is soupy.

No, it still sucks, and the armor is part of the structure, it's not bolt on.

Plus if something like that is acquired from the DOD through the 1033 program it needs to be maintained so as to be returnable should the .gov ask for it back, that is one of the conditions of the program.

The tires are still fairly narrow, and the hull shape sucks. Like I said, it's a shitty platform for off road. On road, be it paved or even a rough road, yes, but off road mobility sucks.

There are far better platforms for what you are proposing. Here is one.

This is an FMC (Food Machinery Corp) tracked skidder with a water tank. This is basically an APC chassis (Notice the similarity to the M113s, which were also built by FMC) with a forestry package instead of the APC troop carrier compartment.

[Phantom Warrior]

Some safes, a bunch of tools, some first aid kits, some sleeping mats, couple radios, a lot of magazines, dozen rifles, cold weather gear, 31 "sustainment pouch" (WTF?)

Assuming the WTF is about the sustainment pouches, those are the two big pouches on the sides of the MOLLE ruck.



Right behind this guy's shoulder with the big "US" stamped on it...

Looks like this by itself: http://www.amazon.com/G-I-Military-MOLLE-Sustainment-Pouch/dp/B005LEPMSA

[Tallpine]

Wow - Boom and I actually agree 

The above picture is what I was calling a "skidgine" though the ones I've seen were 4 or 6 wheel rubber tired articulated instead of tracked.

I've actually thought about something like a 6x6 with a three point hitch on the back for a disk plow - something that could move down the road 30-40 mph yet create a fire break.   

One of the most useful firefighting rigs around here are the local ranchers who show up with a 100++ horsepower tractor with a big disk on the back.