Bill Frist - Taliban Appeaser?

[Perd Hapley]

Keep in mind that nuclear weapons weren't invented until 1945 and that rendering a populated area a denuded, unliveable wilderness is generally unacceptable to most civilized people.

Remember who you're talking to.

[The Rabbi]

Keep in mind that nuclear weapons weren't invented until 1945 and that rendering a populated area a denuded, unliveable wilderness is generally unacceptable to most civilized people.

Remember who you're talking to.

No, I know very well.  And if loosecanoneer responds as I expect he will have no grounds to claim he isnt promoting genocide.

[Perd Hapley]

Unless he allows innocents to escape from the area first.  

I just thought it was kind of funny you'd advise CAnnoneer to keep in mind what others find acceptable.  As if he cares.

[The Rabbi]

Unless he allows innocents to escape from the area first.  

I just thought it was kind of funny you'd advise CAnnoneer to keep in mind what others find acceptable.  As if he cares.

Remember what happened to King Saul and the Amalekites.

I doubt he cares.  That is why his opinion is worthless.

[Perd Hapley]

Remember what happened to King Saul and the Amalekites.

Hum a few bars.

[The Rabbi]

Remember what happened to King Saul and the Amalekites.

Hum a few bars.

He spared some sheep to offer a sacrifice.  The Amalekites were skin changers and so escaped and the evil Haman came from them.

[Darwin]

So you seriously argue that in all of the above, the military had their hands completely untied to achieve a solution or even that such a solution was the goal of the enforcer even if license had been granted?

The few U.S. commanders in Iraq who have any experience and/or training in guerilla warfare who have written the texts I've read on the conflict so far ("Twice Armed," by Col. Allen King, and the soon to be published "A General Speaks Out," by Lt. Gen. Michael DeLong, both from Zenith Press), have both pointed out the brutality of the French in Algeria, tactics much like those advocated by CAnnoneer, as one of the primary causes for their being beaten by insurgents. In other words, no one was tying the hands of the French military in Algeria, and that was part of the problem; had their hands been tied, they might have stood a better chance of success.

[CAnnoneer]

Tell me what those countries should have done that they didnt do.  Keep in mind that nuclear weapons weren't invented until 1945 and that rendering a populated area a denuded, unliveable wilderness is generally unacceptable to most civilized people.

You again answered your own question. If it is unacceptable to do what you can and must, then your hands are not really untied, are they?

[CAnnoneer]

No, I know very well.  And if loosecanoneer responds as I expect he will have no grounds to claim he isnt promoting genocide.

The plan we talked about does not promote genocide, as fistful pointed out multiple times. Now you are changing the conditions while pretending that you are not. There are only three possibilities to explain such behavior: intellectual dishonesty and/or logical deficiency. Let us know which it is.

[The Rabbi]

Tell me what those countries should have done that they didnt do.  Keep in mind that nuclear weapons weren't invented until 1945 and that rendering a populated area a denuded, unliveable wilderness is generally unacceptable to most civilized people.

You again answered your own question. If it is unacceptable to do what you can and must, then your hands are not really untied, are they?

As if on cue.  Thank you.

[CAnnoneer]

I just thought it was kind of funny you'd advise CAnnoneer to keep in mind what others find acceptable.  As if he cares.

Objective reality does not. Why should objective estimates do?

[CAnnoneer]

I doubt he cares.  That is why his opinion is worthless.

And logic takes a dive again...

So long as you believe that (your) ethics trumps history, logic, objective reality, or anything else for that matter, you live in a dreamy bubble of your own making. Sweet dreams!

[CAnnoneer]

Have you missed your meds today?

...opens with the obligatory personal insult/attack.  So much for the "armed POLITE society"...

When one runs out of logic, one must emote. Devaluing the opponent helps soothe the damaged self-perception. Part of the dream state and defense mechanisms of the ego.

The fact that you can list a FAILED counter-guerilla operation, doesn't mean that they ALL failed.

So very obvious, yet so viciously ignored.

[Perd Hapley]

Remember what happened to King Saul and the Amalekites.

Hum a few bars.

He spared some sheep to offer a sacrifice.  The Amalekites were skin changers and so escaped and the evil Haman came from them.

What are you talking about?

[The Rabbi]

Hum a few bars.

He spared some sheep to offer a sacrifice.  The Amalekites were skin changers and so escaped and the evil Haman came from them.

What are you talking about?

I think its 1 Kings.  Maybe Judges.

[Perd Hapley]

Skin changers?

[Sindawe]

Skin changers?

Shapeshifters.  Those able to alter their form from one animal to another

[De Selby]

No, I know very well.  And if loosecanoneer responds as I expect he will have no grounds to claim he isnt promoting genocide.

The plan we talked about does not promote genocide, as fistful pointed out multiple times. Now you are changing the conditions while pretending that you are not. There are only three possibilities to explain such behavior: intellectual dishonesty and/or logical deficiency. Let us know which it is.

If it's not genocide, then it's an absurd idea, because all the people who leave these nuked cities will be intent on killing you, no matter where they end up.

The idea that you can discredit a religion which posits an invisible God by destroying some stones and buildings is ridiculous.  Brutality is the best gift you could ever give the terrorists, since it would unite the vast majority of the Muslim world with them against the rest of the world.  You are, plain and simple, living in a fantasy world if you think these kinds of tactics will solve anything.

Of course, you could always try genocide...but if that's what you're after, well, we should be sending people like you to guantanamo alongside the terrorists.

[Perd Hapley]

The idea that you can discredit a religion which posits an invisible God by destroying some stones and buildings is ridiculous.

Some have pointed out that the Kaaba is protected by Allah, and if it were destroyed, this would completely discredit Allah, thereby destroying Islam.  Of course, this would be meaningless to more "liberal" Muslims, but they are not the ones we are worried about.

[De Selby]

fistful,

Where are there any indications that the radicals are so attached to the Kaba that destroying it would cause them to stop attacking western targets?

I've heard of no such thing.  All Muslims acknowledge that the stone was perverted into an idol for a long period of time...I see no reason why destroying/perverting it again would cause any of them, even radicals, to lose faith.

A much more likely scenario would be that a wave of terror attacks would hit the united states in response, and the radicals would automatically say "See! Here's God's retribution for attacking his religion!"

They will believe what they want no matter what

[Perd Hapley]

OK, buddy, that's fine.  You may be right.  I was just bringing up something I heard from some "expert" on the radio.

Just so you know, I'm not all on board to follow General CAnnoneer.  I hope it doesn't have to come to that.

[280plus]

Interesting read guys all I can add is:

Total World Muslim Population 2006- 1,790,000,000
Divided by
Total World population 2006 -              6,525,170,300
equals=          27%

Are you SURE you want to go pulverize their stone?

[Darwin]

When one runs out of logic, one must emote.

It doesn't seem like he ran out of logic to me. Rather, it seems that he ran out of patience in dealing with a genocidal maniac.

You are, plain and simple, living in a fantasy world if you think these kinds of tactics will solve anything.

You have hit on the crux of the problem with CAnnoneer's so-called "logic": it's all tactic and no strategy. The simple fact is that CAnnoneer has no idea what would happen if we implemented his tactics because he has not even thought about the end results of his tactics. To imagine an end result is to formulate a strategy, and CAnnoneer is, like the Bush administration's foriegn policy, all tactic and no strategy. Rather, he seeks to gratify his base emotions and bomb the Islamic world even further into the stone age, consequences be damned. Like all emotional infants, he selfishly seeks to gratify his base instincts without thought for how that effects others. Again, this could be a description of the Bush administration's foriegn policy.

They will believe what they want no matter what

As will CAnnoneer, I'm afraid.

[richyoung]

Are you SURE you want to go pulverize their stone?

If they refuse to reign in their more extreme "brothers" - what do we have to loose?  We can sit around and wait for them to saw our heads off one at a time in al jazeera videos, or we can FIGHT!

[Darwin]

If they refuse to reign in their more extreme "brothers" - what do we have to loose?

What do we have to "loose"? I think you know the answer to that alread. Hint: it's black, sticky, carbon-based, and without it our entire way of life will grind to a halt.