Author Topic: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.  (Read 4728 times)

Jamisjockey

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Re:
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2014, 11:01:22 AM »
How'd they get the planes over there originally?

The ATR's and Airbuses were built in Europe, so they were flow across the med.  The ATR barely has a 1,000 mile range, though, so they might of had to be ferried across Italy.
The CRJ's are built in Canada, but would be ferried across through Iceland and Europe.

JD

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Fly320s

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Re:
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2014, 07:29:29 PM »
How'd they get the planes over there originally?

Multiple stops for fuel.
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AJ Dual

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Re:
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2014, 10:58:54 PM »
Multiple stops for fuel.

i.e. "paperwork", and cooperation with international ATC.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2014, 09:04:33 AM »
Once upon a time the French experts determined there was no way the Viet Minh could ever get artillery into the hills around Dien Bien Phui . They were overly optimistic much to their chagrin


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Jamisjockey

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2014, 10:18:10 AM »
Once upon a time the French experts determined there was no way the Viet Minh could ever get artillery into the hills around Dien Bien Phui . They were overly optimistic much to their chagrin


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Some scenarios are just delusional.  This is one of them.  But why listen to experienced professionals when there's hyporbole and conjecture?
JD

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2014, 11:07:06 AM »
The guy who made the pronouncement about the artillery was an expert too . He died there



Charles Piroth. Like many of his comrades, Piroth was a highly decorated veteran of World War II. He had lost an arm in Italy.  He knew his craft and was outspoken about it. If you were a visiting dignitary at Dien Bien Phu in those early days before the siege you no doubt had a session with Piroth on your agenda. It was he who most outspokenly preached the gospel of superior French artillery and firepower. When arriving in the valley one of the first questions on the minds of many when seeing the proximity of the surrounding mountains was: what happens if the Vietminh put artillery up there? The French had occupied the low ground and left the mountain crests above open. Basic tactics tell us that is not sound military practice. But Piroth would discount those fears as overstated. He preached that the Vietminh didn’t have the ability to get large amounts of artillery up there, and if somehow they did, his guns would quickly target them and destroy them. A few test rounds would be fired for effect and that was that. Piroth liked to boast that even if he couldn’t destroy all the enemy guns, Giap could never bring enough ammunition into the valley to do the French serious damage. This turned out to be a serious miscalculation, with grave consequences for Piroth.
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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vaskidmark

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Re:
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2014, 11:26:16 AM »
How'd they get the planes over there originally?

Inside a honkin' big plane.

stay safe.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2014, 01:23:10 PM »
 ;/
JD

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dogmush

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2014, 02:20:56 PM »
Once upon a time the French experts determined there was no way the Viet Minh could ever get artillery into the hills around Dien Bien Phui . They were overly optimistic much to their chagrin



An airliner =/= an WWI era artillery piece.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2014, 03:07:16 PM »


An airliner =/= an WWI era artillery piece.

Sadly, I think he is serious.

JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2014, 04:23:52 PM »
The great minds of the time dismissed the risk of the artillery because they" knew" they could not get it in the hills. The Viet Minh weren't as smart as the great minds so they just went ahead and did it.   The rest is history.
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fly320s

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2014, 05:25:11 PM »
I'll play.

Yes, it is possible for the Airbus 320s to make it over here undetected, or at least un-shot-down. The odds are strongly against that because there are so many ways to screw it up.

The A330 has a better chance. I bet it could make it to NYC if it was empty. It would be close, and depends on the model of the 330. It can do 12 hours pretty easily. Again, there are lots of ways to fail.

That said, I would expect that those planes never fly again. Several of them were damaged in the attack on the airport.  I bet the rest will be damaged/destroyed before anyone can organize a way to get them out of Libya to a safe haven.
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Fly320s

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2014, 05:34:20 PM »
Just looked it up.  Tripoli to NYC is 4,100nm. The A330-200 can do 7,200nm with a good load of pax and cargo.  Heck, an A320 might make a no-wind 4,100nm flight if running out of fuel wasn't a concern.

Still, I bet those planes never leave the ground.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2014, 05:39:51 PM »
What if they seal them up real good, convert the engines to run on hydrogen and make mini Hindenburgs of them?

As C&SD pointed out, a lot of impossible things have been done by people too dumb to believe the experts.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2014, 05:45:23 PM »
And it's tuff for folks to wrap their suburban mInds around the idea that folks are willing to die for a cause.


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fly320s

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2014, 07:56:54 PM »
What if they seal them up real good, convert the engines to run on hydrogen and make mini Hindenburgs of them?

As C&SD pointed out, a lot of impossible things have been done by people too dumb to believe the experts.

Impossible? No.  Improbable? Yes.

We can't prepare for or stop all the possibles. We have to concentrate on the probables.
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lupinus

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2014, 09:43:02 PM »
There is also a difference between underestimating folks trying to kill you, and looking at literal/virtual impossibilities.

That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2014, 07:25:41 AM »
And it's tuff for folks to wrap their suburban mInds around the idea that folks are willing to die for a cause.


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 ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/

Oh, I get that. 

Impossible? No.  Improbable? Yes.

We can't prepare for or stop all the possibles. We have to concentrate on the probables.

There is also a difference between underestimating folks trying to kill you, and looking at literal/virtual impossibilities.




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dogmush

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2014, 08:23:57 AM »
And it's tuff for folks to wrap their suburban mInds around the idea that folks are willing to die for a cause.


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Says the dude in suburban VA. ;/

Having met some of these guys willing to die,  I also get that. However a realistic appraisal of the threat (s) is important as well lest you become some knockoff WND, or the terrrist fearing zealot.

Can those airliners physically make it CONUS? Maybe. One in good repair could.  But the technical,  logistical, and tactical challenges make it very unlikely that one could succeed in that mission without a pretty large op. Being willing to die for the cause is all well and good but doesn't help if you auger into the Med.

RocketMan

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2014, 01:36:19 PM »
While unlikely and improbable, prudence dictates we keep an eye open just in case.  We are seldom prudent.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2014, 03:47:19 PM »
Lest history repeat itself


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2014, 03:48:12 PM »
They do't need to bring em here to hurt us. We have interests and concentrations over there


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Scout26

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Re: Hmm. What could go wrong with this.
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2014, 02:24:24 PM »
I will once again point out that while feasible (given aircraft in good repair, with the necessary support systems in place to keep the that way along with pilots capable of getting them off the ground and then navigating over the Atlantic, and entering the US Air Defense Zone without being detected.)

It is highly unlikely that they are capable of doing that.

So I'm willing to bet $100 that they do not fly airliners into the US on or about 11 Sep of this year. 

In fact I'll even bet that they don't hit anything in Europe on or about that date.


You willing to put you money where your mouth is CS&D?
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