Conceal AND Carry

[Strings]

>Using "pro-life" as a noun (it is an adjective).  "He doesn't believe in pro-life."  Of course, I don't see the need for the euphemism, anyway.  And what's with "pro-choice"?  It's ridiculously vague.  Just say "pro-abortion."<

fistful, that comes from neither side wanting to appear "bad"...

[Stand_watie]

...My absolute favorite phrase (my wife heard a friend's father utter it, he normally a fairly intelligent man): "Throw me down the stairs my shoes once"

He's not cajun is he?

[Stand_watie]

deleted; why wreck a nice thread with heavy stuff sure to draw debative responses?

[Stickjockey]

Spelling/pronunciation: "Hey that tanks got a really big turrent.

    Grammar: "Where's it at?"

Wrong words for what they mean that I've seen on the internet

What'd I do?

[Perd Hapley]

fistful, that comes from neither side wanting to appear "bad"...

I know.  I understand that from the pro-abortion side.  But it is still too vague - one could be pro-choice about any number of issues.  It seems the phrase "reproductive freedom" would fill the bill pretty well.  I don't think the media would use the term if not for their sympathy with the movement.

But the "pro-life" label really makes no sense.  If abortion is murder (the bedrock idea of the movement) then how can you be ashamed to be anti-abortion?  How can it sound bad?  The rationalle I heard for it long ago was that people respond poorly to a negative position, so it's better to label yourself after something you can affirm.  I don't buy it.  I have nothing but positive reaction to "anti-racism," "anti-murder," "anti-torturing-puppies," "anti-skinning girls alive and then dipping them in boiling oil," etc.  

But here's another bit along the same lines.  It's very common for newscasters and other journalists to speak casually of "a woman's right to choose."  As in, "Today, the Senate will vote on a measure that could affect a woman's right to choose."  The problem with this is that it assumes there is a right to choose an abortion.  In the above sentence, an objective reporter would just say, "a measure that could outlaw some abortions," or something to that affect.  This doesn't mean that reporters can't speak of "gun rights."  The Second Amendment makes clear there is such a thing as "gun rights," although we can disagree on what those rights entail.

[Guest]

Worshing.

I've been told that's a Michigan thing, like euchre and Vernor's, but I find that hard to believe.

Worsh cloths (or alternatively, worsh rags.) Worshers and dryers. Car worshes. Worshing the floor. We'll worsh anything up here.

[Perd Hapley]

Barbara, did you read the other posts?  It seems there's a whole lotta worshin' goin' on!

[Guest]

I thought I had, but see I missed you and Charby's posts. I'm glad people outside of Michigan are worshing things, too.  

[Standing Wolf]

Some years ago, I reported to a woman who assured me I didn't need to "worry about the grammer" on the company web site.

I didn't for long.

[doczinn]

And why, if the word "prestige" has the emphasis on the second syllable, word the word "prestigious" have it on the first?

Languages change. They evolve. As such, what is "correct" is defined by what people say. Otherwise we'd speak like Chaucer wrote. Or maybe like Beowulf is written. Or...?

[Perd Hapley]

And why, if the word "prestige" has the emphasis on the second syllable, word the word "prestigious" have it on the first?

Languages change. They evolve. As such, what is "correct" is defined by what people say. Otherwise we'd speak like Chaucer wrote. Or maybe like Beowulf is written. Or...?

1.  Why not?

2.  Nonsense.  If we follow that guideline, we won't understand each other very well.  And for that matter, we'd have no idea what Chaucer was saying, if we let the language change that fast.  

Is Beowulf even written in Old English?

[Iain]

How do you pronounce 'schedule' fistful?

[Perd Hapley]

With a "k."  But the slushy-sounding "shejule" sounds pretty cool when you limies say it.  Since the Germans go either way with their ch's, I figure we can, too.    How do you say "school"?

[doczinn]

Nonsense.  If we follow that guideline, we won't understand each other very well.

Over time, we don't. I mentioned Beowulf because that's English, but the English you or I speak is so completely different that we don't really understand it.

Or perhaps you misunderstood what I meant. I absolutely didn't mean any individual person could define what's right; I meant "correct" is defined by what groups of people speak. That group could be the size of the US, and then we would call that language "Standard American English." But that group could also be only 12 percent of the US, and we would call that language (as moronic as the name is that linguists have decided upon) "African American Vernacular English." All those things that are wrong in standard English are perfectly correct in that speech community, as evidenced by the fact that many very educated black people, who speak perfect standard English, switch to that dialect when speaking exclusively to other blacks, educated or not.

Since I've never heard anyone pronounce "prestigious," your assertion that that's the correct pronunciation falls flat. It may have been correct at one time, but it sure isn't now.

[Iain]

I pronounce prestigious like that, but as has been pointed out, I'm a limey so probably don't count.

Obviously I say skool, shh-ool would just be silly. That said, I have no issue with skedule, although I use the 'slushy' version mostly.

I'm not a language scholar by any means, but there is clearly a certain accepted 'evolution' (contentious word, slightly contentious pronunciation) that goes on. I'm not going to argue about whether certain words should have 'u' in them or not.

[Perd Hapley]

Since I've never heard anyone pronounce "prestigious," your assertion that that's the correct pronunciation falls flat. It may have been correct at one time, but it sure isn't now.

Your standard can't really judge anything to be correct.  PRESTigious is correct because prestIgious sounds dumb.  Does anyone agree?  Probably not, but they should.  Why?  Cause I said so, and I know better than you.  

Ebonics is simply poor English, no matter how many educated people speak it.  I engage in hillbilly talk from time to time, and I enjoy it.  But I don't expect anyone to accept it as correct.  It's not.

But I do accept that there is change over time - so long as the change is good.  I am tired of hearing that gay used to mean happy.  It still means that.  If the slang usage has replaced the actual meaning, that is just due to ignorance, and I won't accept it.

[Iain]

I have to work really hard when typing on here, those 'thee's' and 'thou's' do try and slip in.

I'd say that gay meaning homosexual isn't a slang usage anymore, even if it began as such, online dictionaries don't refer to it as slang. I do know what you mean about people saying it used to mean something else, it clearly still does mean that. The only difference is that these days when you say 'Boy, that's a gay outfit' you risk violence.

[Perd Hapley]

I'd say that gay meaning homosexual isn't a slang usage anymore.

No, it probably isn't considered slang.  Nonetheless, I refuse to abandon a perfectly honest word to a minority with an annoying pride in what most find disgusting.

Lawyers and Lutherans

Recently, I heard a lawyer say that if someone pronounces "err" as "ur" rather than "air," then you know they've been to law school.  I listen to a local Lutheran radio station, and I can tell you that such a person may also have attended a Lutheran seminary.  They all use the "ur" pronunciation - drives me nuts.  I don't care what the dictionary says, ur is another "correct" pronunciation that just sounds hideous.

On firmer ground, though, how about these people who say "pronounciation"?  Too ironic, really.

[Guest]

Login not working here for some reason....

Your standard can't really judge anything to be correct.

True, but I'm not using my standard, I'm using the standard of the thousands of people I hear speak standard American English.

Ebonics is simply poor English, no matter how many educated people speak it.  I engage in hillbilly talk from time to time, and I enjoy it.  But I don't expect anyone to accept it as correct.  It's not.

In the context of a group of people, all of whom speak "hillbilly talk," and all of whom understand its nuances, it is perfectly correct. Speaking it in a classroom, or a boardroom, other than for effect, would certainly be incorrect.

But I do accept that there is change over time - so long as the change is good.  I am tired of hearing that gay used to mean happy.  It still means that.  If the slang usage has replaced the actual meaning, that is just due to ignorance, and I won't accept it.

There is change over time, and it is neither good nor bad. It simply is. "Gay" is a good example. It used to mean happy, and in the right context it still can. But it has acquired an additional meaning of homosexual. That's not slang anymore, any more than "dumb" (which you just used) only means "unable to speak." It now also means stupid.

[Perd Hapley]

I know, doc, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I make no apologies for declaring myself THE arbiter of various issues concerning the language.  

Gay is different from dumb, in that it is a hijacking of a word to further a social agenda.  I oppose that behavior, and I oppose their changing of my language.  And if they're so proud, why the euphemism?  If they don't want to be stereotyped, why stereotype themselves as permanently happy?

[Iain]

Ok, this is now driving me crazy. Remember my issue with people saying 'could care less', missing out the 'not' or at least the 'n't'?

Well, I'm now seeing people miss out those little necessary letters on the end of the word 'should' too. "You should be here." Ok, well I'll stay then. "No, you should be here". Argh.

[Perd Hapley]

That is goofy.  I do wish English-speaking people would actually learn to speak the language.  Philistines.

I'm noticing a lot of people using a very rediculous word lately.  It surprises me that so many people would mess that up.

Another difference with dumb and gay is that dumb can still be used to mean mute, in the right context.  Try using gay for its actual meaning, and it will be perceived as a joke or completely misunderstood.

[280plus]

Mr Burns to Smithers, "So, what are YOU going to do on your vacation Smithers? Something GAY I suppose."

Smithers, "Akk Kaak, sputter sputter..."

Mr Burns, "You know, something light hearted and frivolous?"

[Keith Wheeler]

Back in college a bunch of us had VW "Baja" Bugs, you know those off-roading buggies built from old VWs, with their fenders cut off and engines exposed.

One friend was a bit odd in his views on vehicles.  He was having a difficult time trying to determine the best way to mount an antenna on the car.  I suggested drilling a hole.  His expression and attitude were like I had suggested he kill his mother.  Here he had a vehicle whose fenders had been half cut off, the engine cover removed, it was painted with spray can camo paint, had various after-market parts on the engine, yet he was disgusted at the thought of modifying it from the "original condition" -- that is the condition in which he received it.

Language is constantly changing.  Should we throw out "thug" or "boondocks" because those aren't proper English words?  Should I argue with the current meaning of "prosylete" and suggest that we go back to the original meaning, a Greek who converted to Judaism, simply because I'm a Jew and don't agree with Christians taking over "our" term?  Language is always changing.  The meaning of words constantly changing -- mouse, menu, keyboard...just what are these things?  How about hacking?  Is that something you do with an axe, or is an axe something a fellow from a rock band plays?

[doczinn]

Language is constantly changing.  Should we throw out "thug" or "boondocks" because those aren't proper

English words?  Should I argue with the current meaning of "prosylete" and suggest that we go back to the original meaning, a Greek who converted to Judaism, simply because I'm a Jew and don't agree with Christians taking over "our" term?  Language is always changing.  The meaning of words constantly changing -- mouse, menu, keyboard...just what are these things?  How about hacking?  Is that something you do with an axe, or is an axe something a fellow from a rock band plays?

Thank you for coming up with more examples than I could.