Author Topic: Small, home use tractors  (Read 3551 times)

Fly320s

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Small, home use tractors
« on: September 11, 2014, 05:20:55 PM »
Does anyone have experience with the smaller size John Deere or Kubota tractors?

What I need it to do:

Snow plowing in winter
Landscape work. Moving dirt, rocks.
Knocking down smaller trees and cutting back brush.
Mowing. Maybe a half acre at most, but I'd like to get rid of my other mower.
Maybe grading the driveway until I get it paved.
Other residential tasks.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2014, 05:28:03 PM »
I've got plenty of experience

You want at least a 35hp or so tractor (couple less HP is OK). I do not recommend less than 30 at all, there are lots of 20hp tractors out there but to me they are just too small to do real work. Mine is the perfect size IMHO, small enough to get into lots of places big enough to do all the work you could want.

I own a John Deere 955 with a 70a loader. Hydrostatic transmission. This is probably one of the best small tractors made. I've seen dealers sell this model for more than we paid for it when we brought it new, but I've seen reasonable prices used. They are good little units, and if I had to buy another tractor in this category again I'd get the exact same thing.

I would look for a few years old one, I do not recommend new ones at all due to the Tier 4 emissions bullshit. Mine has a Yanmar engine, and Yanmar makes excellent engines.

I have used Kubotas at work and they do OK.

We use a rear mount finish mower to cut our grass, and it does pretty well. Not the finest cut, but more than acceptable for "country" property.

These things are the damned handiest things to have around. You'll find uses for the front end loader in particular that you would never have thought of before.

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Brad Johnson

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2014, 05:37:19 PM »
If you get a used one maked damned sure the hydraulics and fuel injection systems are okay. Hoses, seals, and engine and electrical boo boos can be self-repaired but a dead hydraulic pump/valve assembly or fuel injection pump are hellishly expensive and usually require a trip to a dealer.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2014, 08:22:54 PM »
I've got a Kioti CK20S,  4x4, 22hp, industrial tires and gear drive with a front end loader. I also pull a 50" pto tiller and a 4' box blade Only a very few times have I wished for more tractor on my little place. I've had it going on 4 years and have had no problems.
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Regolith

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2014, 08:27:36 PM »
We have a Kubota 40hp tractor with a front end loader, and it's been very reliable. We've got a set of forks for it to move pallets, a rear mount mower, and a rototiller. Every once in a while we try to move something with it that it simply can't handle (like a 3/4 ton pallet of water softener), but it does 99% of everything else we ask it to.


You'll find uses for the front end loader in particular that you would never have thought of before.

+1000. The front end loader is probably the most useful thing you can have on a tractor.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 07:12:35 PM by Regolith »
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Neemi

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2014, 08:39:31 PM »
No experience other than I watched an episode of Mighty Machines (it's on Netflix) that featured a bunch of Kubotas. (I watched it with my boys - it's super cheesy, but they love it)

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zxcvbob

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 08:40:57 PM »
I've got a Kioti CK20S,  4x4, 22hp, industrial tires and gear drive with a front end loader. I also pull a 50" pto tiller and a 4' box blade Only a very few times have I wished for more tractor on my little place. I've had it going on 4 years and have had no problems.

I've looked at those several times (I have no real use for a tractor; stuck living in the city) and wondered about the brand.  They look good...
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2014, 09:12:31 PM »
I've looked at those several times (I have no real use for a tractor; stuck living in the city) and wondered about the brand.  They look good...

Dad and Mom haven't been able to kill their diesel Kubota UTV. That says something.

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Tallpine

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2014, 09:41:51 PM »
Neighbors have a 30+ hp Kubota that we borrow sometimes in return for pet sitting for them.

Only thing that I really don't like is the loader hydraulics: they are just too damn fast, or more likely the cylinders are too small.  Kubota probably doesn't put on bigger cylinders to keep you from lifting the back of the tractor when trying to pick up something too heavy.  The main cylinders are no bigger than the bucket cylinders, and if you get it a bind (like scooping dirt out of a pile) the bucket will roll back when the main will not pick up at all  ;/
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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 11:13:28 PM »
Neighbors have a 30+ hp Kubota that we borrow sometimes in return for pet sitting for them.

Only thing that I really don't like is the loader hydraulics: they are just too damn fast, or more likely the cylinders are too small.  Kubota probably doesn't put on bigger cylinders to keep you from lifting the back of the tractor when trying to pick up something too heavy.  The main cylinders are no bigger than the bucket cylinders, and if you get it a bind (like scooping dirt out of a pile) the bucket will roll back when the main will not pick up at all  ;/

Interesting observation.  That might explain why routine use of a 35-40hp Kubota back in my teens lifting up dirt and sand never resulted in lifting the back tires off the ground.

Fast forward to me being 34 (and safer... ish) and I picked the back wheels off the ground with a 35hp John Deere pulling a sandbox out of my backyard this weekend.

Scared the crap out of me.

Regolith

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2014, 01:14:45 AM »
  Kubota probably doesn't put on bigger cylinders to keep you from lifting the back of the tractor when trying to pick up something too heavy. 

Interesting observation.  That might explain why routine use of a 35-40hp Kubota back in my teens lifting up dirt and sand never resulted in lifting the back tires off the ground.

Fast forward to me being 34 (and safer... ish) and I picked the back wheels off the ground with a 35hp John Deere pulling a sandbox out of my backyard this weekend.

Scared the crap out of me.

Ours will. Particularly if it's being run without a rear attachment. Maybe they use a smaller/less powerful front end loader on the smaller tractors?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 01:24:13 AM by Regolith »
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Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2014, 01:43:32 AM »
I won't do much of anything with the loader without weight on the back of the tractor.
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MikeB

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2014, 05:20:42 AM »
I won't do much of anything with the loader without weight on the back of the tractor.

This. Those talking about lifting the rear of the tractor while using the loader don't have it properly ballasted.

The small tractors are really quite capable of some serious work.




MikeB

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2014, 05:24:27 AM »
Driveway repair/grading done with a JD 2032R and a Box Blade. Driveway is about a quarter mile long, the ruts are up to 10 inches deep.



« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 05:27:33 AM by MikeB »

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2014, 07:21:50 AM »
This. Those talking about lifting the rear of the tractor while using the loader don't have it properly ballasted.

The small tractors are really quite capable of some serious work.





My Kioti is rated at 1500 lbs breakout and 1000 lbs full lift on the loader. No way would it do that without weight on the back safely.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2014, 07:51:06 AM »
Yea I leave the big bush hog on for weight


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MikeB

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2014, 07:55:05 AM »
My Kioti is rated at 1500 lbs breakout and 1000 lbs full lift on the loader. No way would it do that without weight on the back safely.

The loader on mine is 2600ish breakout and 1300ish full lift. I won't push those numbers without the backhoe which weighs 900+lbs. Even for light loader work, I keep 400 or so pounds ballast on the rear. JD actually recommends 900+ lbs on the rear + filled tires which I don't have. Ballast with a loader and weight in general are key to using tractors properly. It's important to get the center of gravity close to the rear axle and low as possible to keep them from doing unintended tipping, rolling, etc.

Most of the little tractors will often loose traction before not having enough HP to do the work with ground contact type implements if not weighted properly.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2014, 08:31:08 AM »
One of the best ways to screw up around here is lifting round bales.


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fly320s

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2014, 10:09:16 AM »
Thanks for the info so far.  I like what I see from Deere and Kubota; I don't know anything about Kioti or Yanmar.

Boomhauer, what does the tier 4 emissions do to earn your ire?
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Tallpine

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2014, 11:01:10 AM »
My 1950 Case doesn't have a 3 point hitch, but it has a big steel box permanently mounted on the back that you can fill with heavy stuff for a counter weight.

I think that it might actually have more hydraulic breakout power with the main loader boom than the nearly new Kubota  =|  Of course the bucket is so small that it's hard to get enough in it to tell.  But I have nearly turned it over trying to pull up fence posts.
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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2014, 11:04:08 AM »
My 1950 Case doesn't have a 3 point hitch, but it has a big steel box permanently mounted on the back that you can fill with heavy stuff for a counter weight.

I think that it might actually have more hydraulic breakout power with the main loader boom than the nearly new Kubota  =|  Of course the bucket is so small that it's hard to get enough in it to tell.  But I have nearly turned it over trying to pull up fence posts.

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Tallpine

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2014, 11:17:01 AM »
Train your horses to capture video next time.  Equine-Cam FTW!

I haven't started it in several years now.  The rear wheels are all rusted out and may give way at any moment.  I've got a couple other wheels but the tires on those are too big so I need to have them all swapped around.

Plus the gas tank has a small leak so you have to drain it after use and then fill it up again before you start it.  =(
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Boomhauer

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2014, 11:39:43 AM »
Quote
Boomhauer, what does the tier 4 emissions do to earn your ire?

Oh where to begin...

There are several emissions control systems in use for Tier 4. You have diesel particulate filters, urea injection systems, and exhaust gas recirculation systems

These systems have lots of electronics to manage the emissions systems. I don't have anything against electronic engine controls in general but there is a point where the amount gets rediculous- and every sensor is a potential point of failure.

Then the various systems themselves have issues. DPF filters have to be "regenerated" or cooked out by the engine running at high loads periodically. The process can take a lot of time and use a lot of fuel. We recommend to owners that they run the engine with a load on and at higher RPMs frequently to try to keep the filter in good shape, mostly low RPM usage and not doing the regen cycles will mean a clogged filter. We have a special oven that the filter can be baked in to get it cleaner (think of like how a self-cleaning oven works) Basically the DPF system is a pain in the ass.  

The EGR systems send the exhaust gases back into the cylinder to try to reduce emissions by displacing some of the incoming fresh air. This causes some issues, and diesel owners who have removed EGR systems have noticed a marked improvement in reliability, but it does void the warrenty.

Basically, this:
Quote
By feeding the lower oxygen exhaust gas into the intake, diesel EGR systems lower combustion temperature, reducing emissions of NOx. This makes combustion less efficient, compromising economy and power. The normally "dry" intake system of a diesel engine is now subject to fouling from soot, unburned fuel and oil in the EGR bleed, which has little effect on airflow, however, when combined with oil vapor from a PCV system, can cause buildup of sticky tar in the intake manifold and valves. It can also cause problems with components such as swirl flaps, where fitted. Diesel EGR also increases soot production, though this was masked in the US by the simultaneous introduction of diesel particulate filters.[9] EGR systems can also add abrasive contaminants and increase engine oil acidity, which in turn can reduce engine longevity.[10]

The urea injection systems (diesel exhaust fluid) is the least problematic by far- all it does is inject the solution into the exhaust stream. It's simply an extra expense.  The DPFs and EGRs are what cause the most trouble. I would look to avoid them while you can still get older equipment in good shape.

Modern diesels are great engines- lots of power and very advanced. The issues with modern diesels come mostly from the emissions systems, which also reduce fuel efficiency in many cases. Until the emissions systems issues are more advanced, I'm not a fan of them- except for the job security...we are getting some of the issues resolved (when the first tier 4 stuff came out it was an absolute nightmare) so do your research on the new stuff before committing to buy- some makers are having more trouble than others.



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Fly320s

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2014, 02:50:03 PM »
Thanks.  What year did Tier 4 become required?
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Kingcreek

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Re: Small, home use tractors
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2014, 03:00:37 PM »
I've got a 15 year old Kubota L3010 that's been great but I recommend you find out what kind of dealer support you have locally. I wouldn't buy any brand that didn't have parts and service conveniently nearby.
I recently changed a $75 Glow plug controller that was literally the first part failure in 15 years and 1200 hours, otherwise just routine maintenance fluids and filters etc. I work the hell out of it with a FEL, 72" 3pt rough cut, 60" tiller, box grader, and a snow blade.
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