When did chainsaws get complicated?

[41magsnub]

Today I watched my neighbor struggle trying to start a chainsaw and went over to help.  He had bought a new Stihl last year and ran it once to test, then never used it again.  I forgot the model number already.   I took a look at it.  When did they add all these extra buttons?  I wasn't sure what they all were and we never did get it started.  Pulling the starter rope, it sure has a lot more compression than my Stihl 025.  There was probably some safety tripped on it, but we didn't find it.  The engine never caught at all.

I lent him my saw for dropping the tree he was working on, it started up on the 3rd pull.  That one I know how to run!

[RoadKingLarry]

We can thank the EPA, OSHA and lawyers for most of it.

[Tallpine]

What model?  Where are the buttons?

Some of the bigger saws have a compression release button on the top, under the main (left hand) handle.  You push that in before pulling the rope to make it easier.  It pops out when the engine starts.

Mine is an 046 from 1997 and it had the compression release.

[41magsnub]

I forget the exact model, but was a 40-something.  It is notably larger than my 025, same 18" bar length, but bigger overall.  That makes sense on the compression release, that was definitely one button, though it didn't seem to affect the effort it took to try to start it.  There was a weird dial on the right side towards the rear of the saw.  I'm sure it makes perfect sense once you read the manual.

[Jim147]

I hope he dumped the fuel and ran it dry last year if he only tested it. If he left untreated 10% in it, good luck.

jim

[41magsnub]

I hope he dumped the fuel and ran it dry last year if he only tested it. If he left untreated 10% in it, good luck.

jim

That is also very possible, I should have thought of that.  He is a total chainsaw noob.  I had to show him how to hold the saw properly to start it.

[Boomhauer]

RTFM

And he probably shouldn't be using it if he can't even hold it properly to start it. Maybe he needs to work with an experienced chainsaw operator and see how it's done and learn before going all Axe Men on *expletive deleted*it and getting himself hurt.

[Calumus]

I had to show him how to hold the saw properly to start it.

Do you have a spare set of chaps you can loan him? I worked for a company that cleared under transmission lines for two years. I watched a guy start up a Stihl 044 with a broken chain brake graze his thigh. 134 stitches later, he only starts his saw with his foot on it and in good working order. I'm not exactly over the top with safety procedures; but I won't cut without chaps and glasses. The EPA has caused issues for saw manufacturers. Saws come jetted way too lean to pass emissions. Half of them also come with cats now. Thankfully they're really easy to remove.

[K Frame]

Is his name Greg Norman, by chance?

[K Frame]

Oh, that "weird dial" toward the rear of the saw? Did it look like this?



Thats the fuel cap. it's white, with a black half circle. You lift up on the half circle and use that to unscrew the cap. Apparently if that half circle doesn't snap back down flush, the cap isn't on correctly and it's going to leak.

[MechAg94]

I hope he dumped the fuel and ran it dry last year if he only tested it. If he left untreated 10% in it, good luck.

jim

After years of ethanol in fuel, Stihl still can't design a chainsaw for ethanol fuel?

My cheap Troy built weed eater and mower have had raw fuel in them for months and start up just fine.  No problems after several years.  For an older model I can understand, but anything built in the last 10 or 15 years ought to be designed better. 

[41magsnub]

Oh, that "weird dial" toward the rear of the saw? Did it look like this?

Thats the fuel cap. it's white, with a black half circle. You lift up on the half circle and use that to unscrew the cap. Apparently if that half circle doesn't snap back down flush, the cap isn't on correctly and it's going to leak.

Nope, it was neither the fuel cap or the bar oil reservoir.

[Tallpine]

Nope, it was neither the fuel cap or the bar oil reservoir.

Some of the new ones have a knob to adjust the chain without loosening the bar nuts 

The compression release makes a big difference in how hard it is to pull the starter rope!

I will have to look at the new saws next time that I am in town, but last time I drooled over them I did not see much difference to mine except some cosmetics and the different number system.  A new 460 (046) is over $1000 just for the powerhead so I was content to spend $100 to fix the ethanol damage.  Now I buy only premium for it, but egads - over $20 for 5 gallons of saw gas! 

[Tuco]

Oh, that "weird dial" toward the rear of the saw? Did it look like this?



Thats the fuel cap. it's white, with a black half circle. You lift up on the half circle and use that to unscrew the cap. Apparently if that half circle doesn't snap back down flush, the cap isn't on correctly and it's going to leak.

That fuel cap design did more to hurt Stihl than anything Jonsared, Husky, or Poulan could have ever come up with.  The damn things would break into a dozen pieces in your hand.  They ran a major recall on them in 2008 or so, but the damage was done.

Safety - There is some excellent chainsaw safety info online in the form of a 100 plus page PDF, with sections on felling, climbing, bucking, Not sure where, but will look at my copy for location information.

[K Frame]

Then I don't know what that dial would be. I doubt that it would be the chain tension, for as far as I can tell every Stihl saw uses the bar wrench to tension the chain, and that's located on the right front of the saw between the two bolts that hold the bar in place.

[Tallpine]

I just looked at several saws on the Stihl website and I see no "dial" whatsoever on the right side of the saws.

The tensioning devices look the same as my 1997 model.  I don't know where I saw the one hand knob (tool-less) chain tensioner - maybe it was not on a Stihl 

[KD5NRH]

Thats the fuel cap. it's white, with a black half circle. You lift up on the half circle and use that to unscrew the cap. Apparently if that half circle doesn't snap back down flush, the cap isn't on correctly and it's going to leak.

Anybody color coding stuff on a chainsaw has never actually used a chainsaw.

Been fighting with a couple of them (both broken starter springs, can't figure out how to get the replacements in without having a spring steel whip going crazy all over the place and having to cramp my hand getting it rewound) and in the process I decided to soak all the non-metal stuff with some Dawn, and most of the metal stuff in carb cleaner.  Turns out one is yellow and the other is green.  Couldn't tell that before I started.

[Tallpine]

Anybody color coding stuff on a chainsaw has never actually used a chainsaw.

Been fighting with a couple of them (both broken starter springs, can't figure out how to get the replacements in without having a spring steel whip going crazy all over the place and having to cramp my hand getting it rewound) and in the process I decided to soak all the non-metal stuff with some Dawn, and most of the metal stuff in carb cleaner.  Turns out one is yellow and the other is green.  Couldn't tell that before I started.

It's been a long time but as I recall that's not the way to do it.  Spring goes in under zero tension, and then you install the rope by pulling some slack inside and then turn the spool several times to get spring tension and then just let the spool wind up the starter rope naturally.  Easier to do than to describe.

[Tuco]

It's been a long time but as I recall that's not the way to do it.  Spring goes in under zero tension, and then you install the rope by pulling some slack inside and then turn the spool several times to get spring tension and then just let the spool wind up the starter rope naturally.  Easier to do than to describe.

kd5nrh can do it under tension, It's been about 40 years, but I remember a c clamp being required to hold spring tension.  I like tallpines idea.

[KD5NRH]

It's been a long time but as I recall that's not the way to do it.  Spring goes in under zero tension, and then you install the rope by pulling some slack inside and then turn the spool several times to get spring tension and then just let the spool wind up the starter rope naturally.  Easier to do than to describe.

Without tension, the spring is at least 6x the diameter of the space it has to go into.

kd5nrh can do it under tension, It's been about 40 years, but I remember a c clamp being required to hold spring tension.  I like tallpines idea.

I've seen a couple of text descriptions of doing it with vise grips, but I can't figure out a way to get it into the space with them attached.  Guess I need to run through some of the YouTube videos and see if one of them is similar enough to what I'm dealing with.

[Boomhauer]

That fuel cap design did more to hurt Stihl than anything Jonsared, Husky, or Poulan could have ever come up with.  The damn things would break into a dozen pieces in your hand.  They ran a major recall on them in 2008 or so, but the damage was done.

I HATE those fuel/oil caps.

The hell was wrong with just using a normal screw in cap...NEVER had a problem with the normal caps on my Poulans or the Huskys at my old job. Worked just fine. But no, Stihl has to get all fancy and use some retarded cap design that comes open way too easily and breaks and is over complicated.

*expletive deleted*ing German engineers, they just can't leave *expletive deleted*it alone...always got to "improve it". They really need to learn what the phrase "If it ain't broken, then don't FIX IT" means over there.

[K Frame]

Supposedly the new cap design was to keep gas from leaking out of the old-style open vent holes. The new design can vent fine if pressure builds up, but will reseal with no muss, no fuss.

Or so the theory goes. :)

Stihl has recalled those caps at least once, most recently in 2011 because some of the plastics used in them wouldn't stand up to the ethanol.

[Tallpine]

Without tension, the spring is at least 6x the diameter of the space it has to go into.

I've seen a couple of text descriptions of doing it with vise grips, but I can't figure out a way to get it into the space with them attached.  Guess I need to run through some of the YouTube videos and see if one of them is similar enough to what I'm dealing with.

I know that I have replaced those springs, and I remember that Stihl was far easier to do than any other saw.  It seems like you have to wind the spring up in your hand so that it is a little smaller than the housing, and then slip it in and let it go.   

But I'm confused now between the saw starter rope springs and the Spencer log tape springs which are a similar concept.  Sorry, I'm not going to go take mine apart to figure it out 

When I was still working in the woods, I always had a second saw handy, or at least I could rob the starter housing off the spare saw and use that until I got the parts and fixed it.

[KD5NRH]

I know that I have replaced those springs, and I remember that Stihl was far easier to do than any other saw.  It seems like you have to wind the spring up in your hand so that it is a little smaller than the housing, and then slip it in and let it go.

Trouble is getting it in there, with the little tail in its slot, and letting go without it popping back out before I can get the spool part in.

[Tallpine]

Trouble is getting it in there, with the little tail in its slot, and letting go without it popping back out before I can get the spool part in.

Try a few beers or a shot of whisky first 


I remember cussing the Spencer tapes but seems like the Stihl saws weren't that bad