Ever fail a class?

[zahc]

After all these years I found a class that's getting best of me. Thermodynamics. Of all things. I got an A in Electrodynamics. I didn't have a problem with Mechanics, calc 3, or Modern Physics. I'm just so screwed right now. And this is one of only two more physics classes I need in order to graduate.

I don't like the text, I don't understand it, and I'm still trying to understand chapter 4 and we have a test for chapter 6 next week. The book does the traditional historical development of thermo, so I can follow the math, and when the book does things they make sense, but there's this overwhelming feeling 'how am I supposed to solve problems'. I'm presented with a problem and I no have idea where to even start, or I chase the math in circles. In my E&M text this didn't happen, this hasn't happened in any other class; I could always read the book and understand what I needed to do.

There's nobody to ask because I'm a senior physics major. I can't even practice the problems in the book because I can't do them. The answers are in the back but it doesn't help. What I need is a solution key so I can walk through the solutions, I just need a little kick; I'm not stupid, really I'm not. There isn't a student solutions manual for this book; I have considered buying another text with solutions and working through them but that will take too much time. I can't ask the faculty because they don't have time to spend on material that has already been covered, digging me out of this situation I'm in. I really don't know what to do. It's not like it's going to get easier through the semester. I have never dropped, failed, or gotten less than a B in a physics class before, and the way things are going right now I have no idea how I'll pass. And if I don't pass I don't graduate.

[charby]

I have a buddy with a ME degree, he wasn't stupid at all either, did well in everything except thermo. It took him two attempts at the class to get a passing grade so he could graduate.

I wish I had advice for you other than study, study and study.

-C

[Perd Hapley]

The faculty doesn't have time?  Then what are they for?  

Could you pick just two or three things to ask a professor about, and see if those don't unlock the rest?  Maybe you could explain this problem to a professor like you just explained it to us.

[zahc]

I only have 1.5 semesters left, and thermo is only offered every other semester, so the possibility of taking it twice isn't even really there, unless I want to take a whole other semester for one class. And my scholarships don't cover anything past 4 years, so there's no way I'd doing that.

[HankB]

I received an "A" in thermodynamics and learned virtually NOTHING about the subject . . . though I tried . . . I really did.

We didn't have an assigned text.

For some reason, they assigned a professor to teach the course who HATED teaching that subject matter . . . he decided to use class time as a forum to talk about phenomenology. He told us everyone in class had an automatic "C" . . . if we turned in the take-home midterm, we'd get a "B" and if we turned in the take-home final, we'd get an "A" . . . and the tests would not be graded, even though all the problems were taken straight from one of those softcover student guides. (I forget what the name was, but we called them "Physics Cliff's Notes")

We were half-afraid that the rest of the faculty would do something to us (like not credit us with the course) but that didn't happen, and our "A" grades stood.

But the following year they reassigned the class to a real lousy, arrogant, abusive professor, who passed out two C's, one D, and flunked everyone else.

[charby]

The faculty doesn't have time?  Then what are they for?

Oh boy this could open a can of worms. I work at a land grant university and it seems more emphasis is placed on research than teaching. Funny thing is that their advertisements sure don't say it. Most engineering programs are at research institutions. Some professors look at teaching as a necessary evil to keep a position at a University, you can tell when taking a class who those professors are.

-C

[Bogie]

Go camp out in the guy's office. If he throws you out, camp out in his boss' office. Explain that you want to learn, but are a bit baffled by a few things...

[280plus]

It never hurts to talk to the prof, at least he/she will get the impression that you CARE. And make it to every class too. I was just yakking about the C I got in "discrete mathematics" over at the math thread. There never was a more lost puppy than me in that class. The prof wanted me to drop but I NEEDED a math ANY MATH to graduate and this was the only one open and that's what I told him. I showed for every class and at the end pointed that out to the prof when I asked him to PLEASE just give me a C so I could pass and graduate. He did. Of course I WAS a music major, not a real need for math in that field. That C DID screw up my GPA though.

[Shalako]

I took thermo 3 times.

Round 1: D+
Round 2: Tried to drop but filed to late ---> F
Round 3: B+

Hooray!

[SomeKid]

280, what would have been a kicker, was if you begged for the C, he gave you the C, then asked why you didn't want the A.

zahc, buy the other textbook if you must. Since you already stated you cannot retake the class, you have no choice but to do whatever it takes to pass. I feel for you, I really do. I am a Nursing major, and anytime I go to my professors about something they make me feel like an idiot. My remedy is quite literally to rely on only my own abilities. I take what they teach me in class, and run from there with the book.

[zahc]

anytime I go to my professors about something they make me feel like an idiot. My remedy is quite literally to rely on only my own abilities. I take what they teach me in class, and run from there with the book.

That's the way I feel exactly. Professors just, in reality, make me feel like I am imposing on them, tell me I'm stupid, and pressure me out of the office.

My only hope is that I will somehow be able to pass even though I really don't know what I'm doing. I'm actually pretty good at somehow getting better grades than I deserve but I've never dipped this low before.

[SomeKid]

zahc, like I said, just tough it out buddy. I had a relative who is a Nurse anesthesiologist give me some very simple advice: Shut up and graduate.

All I can do is share it with you my friend. It really sucks, but some teahcers are like that. (For the record, not ALL of my Nursing instructors make me feel dumb, just most of them give me bad vibes.)

The reason this problem occurs, is because of the requirements to teach these classes. All of my instructors are at LEAST MSN level people. (Master of Science in Nursing.) Most have PhDs. A few are full fledged Nurse Practictioners. These people aren't teaching for money. You would THINK that they would be doing it to teach, and their love of teaching and Nursing. I don't know what motivates them to teach, but it sure isn't love of teaching, and they know they can get high paying jobs if they want to. They don't need the job and they know it, you would think that if teaching had such lousy pay and bad benefits they wouldn't do it...

[brimic]

P-Chem
I didn't fail it, but I did pass it with about a 45% average.
Chemists don't die early because of exposure to chemicals, they dies because 2 semesters of P-Chem takes 10 years off their lives.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Thermo is tough.  Suck it up and take it twice, if that's what it takes.  You won't be the first person to repeat a class like that, nor the first to spend 9 semesters trying to earn a difficult degree.  There's no shame in it.

I know what it's like to have a professor who doesn't help.  I know what it's like to not know where you're going to get the money you need to finish up.  I know what kind of stress you're under right now.  I've been there too.  Lots of us have.  It may be miserable right now, but it'll get better.  In a few years you'll be just fine, and you'll probably even be glad that your schooling was as rigorous as it was.

I know this isn't what you want to hear.  But a degree in a sybject like that isn't awarded to just anybody, and it isn't awarded based on BS platitudes like your hard work or having your heart in the right place.  It's awarded for your achievement.  The bottom line is that you haven't achieved their standards yet.  Again there's no shame in that.   Their standards are damned high, and that's a good thing.

Do your best this semester, and come back and try again next time.  These degrees have to be earned, and earning them is very, very difficult.

[Perd Hapley]

 Their standards are damned high,

Bah.  Their standards of teaching are low.  

Why is it that college students pay outrageous fees, and so often get terrible customer service from the profs?

[Antibubba]

After all these years I found a class that's getting best of me. Thermodynamics.

Just cool down, and I'm sure it will all come together.

[CAnnoneer]

We may be able to help. Tell us a bit more what you find difficulty with. First, is it thermodynamics or statistical mechanics?

If it is just thermodynamics, there are only a few concepts you need to get and then the rest is pretty easy. The math is not that challenging by comparison to many other things in physics, especially EM (well, it depends on the teaching level, but on average it is true).

Basic thermo is different ways to use the ideal gas law. A bunch of results come from it especially when combined with simple ideas about degrees of freedom and thermal capacity. Isothermal and adiabatic processes come next, and then you get Carnot's engine and calculation of efficiencies. Then entropy is introduced and you are pretty much through.

Stat mech is a bit more challenging, but if you understand the math and remember the definitions, it really is pretty linear.

Like I said, tell us what the particular issues are and we may be able to help out.

From the administrative perspective, if you feel you are running out of time, you can ask the prof for an incomplete and turn in the work later. Use the won time to absorb the material at your own pace. Another idea is to ask gradstudents at your institution for a few pointers. How come the prof has no T.A.'s for the course? Finally, don't you have classmates you know who take the same course? They may teach you some things too.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

 Their standards are damned high,

Bah.  Their standards of teaching are low.  

Why is it that college students pay outrageous fees, and so often get terrible customer service from the profs?

The student is responsible for learning the material, period.  Professor's are there to help.  Sometimes life sucks and they don't help as much as we would like.  Sometimes the textbook sucks.  Well, too bad.  It's still the student's responsibility to learn the material sufficiently to meet the standards.  Whining about poor customer service is a BS excuse.

I don't mean to cast aspersions at zahc, but it sounds like he let himself fall behind in a notoriously difficult class, then didn't bother to see the professor about it until it was too late.  The professor is within his rights to provide only limited help.

"I'm sorry, but if you were falling behind you should have come to see me earlier.  Now I'll have to spend this month teaching you what you should have learned last month.  Next month I'll be teaching you what you're supposed to learn this month but didn't because you were too busy making up old work.  It simply won't work.  And I have too many other students who are trying to stay caught up, they need my help too."

I heard this speech twice, in classes where I'd let myself fall behind - thermo and dif eq.  Each time I was pissed at the prof, and tried to blame him for my failings.  But years later, now I realize that it was nobody's fault but mine, and the profs couldn't possibly have done anything differently.  Whining about it, either at the time it happened or years later, doesn't solve anything.

Take responsibility, zahc.  Bust your balls trying to catch up.  Get as much help from your prof as he's willing to give.  Maybe, just maybe, you'll still be able to pass.  But if you don't pass, accept responsibility for it yourself, don't blame the textbook or the prof or whoever.  Try again net semester, and resolve to do better.

Everyone fails sometime.  Lord knows that I have plenty of times.  You will too one of these days.  It isn't the end of the world.  Be glad you're still in school where they give you another chance in 4 months.

[Perd Hapley]

The student is responsible for learning the material, period.  Professor's are there to help.  Sometimes life sucks and they don't help as much as someone would like.  Too bad.  It's still the student's responsibility to learn the material sufficiently to meet the standards.  Whining about poor customer service is a BS excuse.

The students pay for instruction and the profs get paid to provide it.  Office hours should be a part of that deal.  Since when is it whining to complain that you're not getting what you paid for?  

But of course, it is up to the student to get all he can from the course.  Having made A's in every class and the Dean's list my last three semesters, I certainly agree with that.  

Of course, I don't know the particulars of zahc's situation.

[DJJ]

Failing a class is like killing a man. The first one's the hardest. After that it gets easier.

[drewtam]

We may be able to help. Tell us a bit more what you find difficulty with. First, is it thermodynamics or statistical mechanics?

If it is just thermodynamics, there are only a few concepts you need to get and then the rest is pretty easy. The math is not that challenging by comparison to many other things in physics, especially EM (well, it depends on the teaching level, but on average it is true).

Basic thermo is different ways to use the ideal gas law. A bunch of results come from it especially when combined with simple ideas about degrees of freedom and thermal capacity. Isothermal and adiabatic processes come next, and then you get Carnot's engine and calculation of efficiencies. Then entropy is introduced and you are pretty much through.

Stat mech is a bit more challenging, but if you understand the math and remember the definitions, it really is pretty linear.

Like I said, tell us what the particular issues are and we may be able to help out.

From the administrative perspective, if you feel you are running out of time, you can ask the prof for an incomplete and turn in the work later. Use the won time to absorb the material at your own pace. Another idea is to ask gradstudents at your institution for a few pointers. How come the prof has no T.A.'s for the course? Finally, don't you have classmates you know who take the same course? They may teach you some things too.

I barely got by thermo as well. The problem with thermo is that its one of the few classes taught as if this was the 17th century. Good luck.

Drew

[Waitone]

I met my Waterloo in electomagnetic field theory.  For some reason I formed a mental block on triple integral calculus.  Might also be because at the same time I was taking a required lab in systems analysis counting for two hours but was requiring up to thirty hours a week just to perform and write up experiments.  I literally thought I was going to lose my freakin' mind.  Something had to slide so I chose field theory to tank.

Took it again the next semester and ace'd it.  Yeah, it hurt my pride more than my GPR, but it was good for me.  Everyone has to face failure and experience it.  Years later I was told the course of study (can't spell the word) was deliberately constructed to force you to make those kinds of decision.  We were deliberately put into situations where all the options sucked.  Kinda like life.  

You'll survive and be much better for it.

[CatsDieNow]

I failed Thermo II twice before I passed it with a D.  I promised the instructor who passed me that I'd never do anything involving thermodynamics.     (I mean, how could I?)

When I took the pre-req for it, I got violently sick during the exam, but it all magically made sense at that point in time.  I was puking every 20 minutes, but I got an A.  Never has made sense since.  I hate that stupid steam table book.

I have yet to see a decent textbook for it.

[280plus]

280, what would have been a kicker, was if you begged for the C, he gave you the C, then asked why you didn't want the A.

LOL...I knew I was stretching it asking for the C.

Same thing though, if I was a computer major he might not have let it go but when was I ever going to use that stuff in the music field? It was last semester ever, I was out of money too and I just needed a C in a 200 level math to graduate. I think I told him that the first day. And from the first day he was advising me to drop but I wouldn't and I made every class so now I have a lovely BA that sits in a drawer some where.

I took that course and then for electives (which was all I had left) I took 2 - 300 level Psychs and a 200 level Modern literature. I thought the Mod Lit would be a breeze and it was supposed to be the course I didn't have to put so much time into. I had to read 11 novels complete with reports. I think that was the toughest semester I had the whole time through.

[280plus]

I'm sorry, BGS, but thats a whole 'nother story...