New race/ethnicity question on the 4473?

[Perd Hapley]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/16/obama-white-house-forcing-new-gun-buyers-to-declar/

Sadly, I don't fill these out very often, so I don't remember what racial questions they used to ask. What, exactly, has changed?

[Chuck Dye]

I reviewed the form at

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf.

I suppose it can be argued that the race info is part and parcel with the height, weight, sex, and age as physical descriptors, 'though the ID requirements of boxes 20a,b,&c should duplicate that and include hair and eye color.

I am not much bothered by the inclusion of accurate descriptions on a form that should not exist.  The question is what is done with the info beyond identifying and accurately describing the purchaser?

[Tallpine]

Well, considering my surname was very common in the south, and many freed slaves took their former masters' surname, I suppose there would be some advantage to not being confused with someone else with the same name/birth date 

[dogmush]

10 A is the new one.  Hispanic or not Hispanic.  I first saw it in May when I got home, It cropped up sometime in late 13/early 14.

The race checkmarks (10 b) have been there as long as I remember.

[lee n. field]

10 A is the new one.  Hispanic or not Hispanic.  I first saw it in May when I got home, It cropped up sometime in late 13/early 14.

The race checkmarks (10 b) have been there as long as I remember.

Hispanic, yeah.  Don't recall when that appeared.

Would that be "white hispanic" or "non-white hispanic"?

(Japan is an island in the Pacific.  But, Japanese do not count as "Pacific Islanders".  Relevant in my family as my 2 half-J nieces get up towards college age.)

[MechAg94]

Hispanic, yeah.  Don't recall when that appeared.

Would that be "white hispanic" or "non-white hispanic"?

(Japan is an island in the Pacific.  But, Japanese do not count as "Pacific Islanders".  Relevant in my family as my 2 half-J nieces get up towards college age.)

I guess they wanted to ID the hispanics that check "white".  That is funny to me as I know a Louisiana man that has the last name of Cortez and he doesn't look Latin at all.  Lots of Spanish names over there mixed with the French and American.

What do you check if you are "Spanish" as in ancestors from Spain?  

[Perd Hapley]

What do you check if you are "Spanish" as in ancestors from Spain?  

Hispanic.

[Hawkmoon]

10 A is the new one.  Hispanic or not Hispanic.  I first saw it in May when I got home, It cropped up sometime in late 13/early 14.

The race checkmarks (10 b) have been there as long as I remember.

I still don't understand the distinction between "race" and "ethnicity." My late wife was from South America, of a family that traced its ancestry back to Spain. Basically not a drop of indigenous blood in her (her country is still very "clasista"). She highly resented being categorized as anything but white/caucasian. What -- exactly -- is "hispanic"? Based on the term, it should denote a person from Spain ... but it doesn't. In fact, in some systems "hispanic" specifically excludes people from Spain.

 

[Hawkmoon]

What do you check if you are "Spanish" as in ancestors from Spain?  

Caucasian.

[Chuck Dye]

I still don't understand the distinction between "race" and "ethnicity."

Ethnicity, even more than race, is very slippery to define.  It most often means what the speaker or writer wishes within broad limits.  When I took some history  at UCSD, it was held to take into account small cultural differences.  Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants were held to be ethnically separate, as an example, even within the same family.  Generally, though, the distinctions were broader.  Nowadays, it seems to be most used as a wedge to divide folk, part of the score card used to discriminate.

[HankB]

I still don't understand the distinction between "race" and "ethnicity." My late wife was from South America, of a family that traced its ancestry back to Spain. Basically not a drop of indigenous blood in her (her country is still very "clasista"). She highly resented being categorized as anything but white/caucasian . . .

Went to college with a guy born in Pretoria, RSA . . . 100% Dutch-German ancestry. He took great delight in checking "African-American" on his college financial aid forms.

(Of course, having been born in Chicago, I always considered myself to be a Native American.)

[Balog]

Went to college with a guy born in Pretoria, RSA . . . 100% Dutch-German ancestry. He took great delight in checking "African-American" on his college financial aid forms.

(Of course, having been born in Chicago, I always considered myself to be a Native American.)

I don't consider Chicago to be part of America. 

[RevDisk]

I generally select Other, Native American, Germanic, Middle Easterner or African depending on the timeline. On a long enough timescale, all of the descendants of homo erectus came from Africa a couple million years ago. On a more narrow scope, about 200,000 years ago AFAIK, H. sapiens sapiens came from the from the Middle East. Within the last hundred years, my direct ancestors came from Germanic stock, with some Slavic. Within my lifetime, I am a native to the United States.

As far as I know, none of my direct genetics is from or even passed through the Caucasus Mountain region within recorded history, so I'm at a bit of a loss on why any sane person would expect me to claim it.

[Scout26]

I generally refuse to answer, but if forced, I change it each time.



Scout 26, your Hispanic, African-American, Pacific Islander, Native American, Aleut/Inuit, Caucasian Moderator.

[MechAg94]

I still don't understand the distinction between "race" and "ethnicity." My late wife was from South America, of a family that traced its ancestry back to Spain. Basically not a drop of indigenous blood in her (her country is still very "clasista"). She highly resented being categorized as anything but white/caucasian. What -- exactly -- is "hispanic"? Based on the term, it should denote a person from Spain ... but it doesn't. In fact, in some systems "hispanic" specifically excludes people from Spain.

 

Honestly, most Latin or Hispanic should be able to just put down Native American.  I think that is really what most of them are, they just come from spanish speaking countries instead of the US.

[Pb]

I still don't understand the distinction between "race" and "ethnicity." My late wife was from South America, of a family that traced its ancestry back to Spain. Basically not a drop of indigenous blood in her (her country is still very "clasista"). She highly resented being categorized as anything but white/caucasian. What -- exactly -- is "hispanic"? Based on the term, it should denote a person from Spain ... but it doesn't. In fact, in some systems "hispanic" specifically excludes people from Spain.

 

Ethnicity is culture.   A hispanic person can be 100% caucasian, 100% african or 100% American Indian... if the person speaks spanish, eats "Hispanic" food, is catholic etc they will probably be considered Hispanic no matter what their skin color.

"Redneck" could be considered an ethnicity produced in North American.

[zxcvbob]

I generally refuse to answer, but if forced, I change it each time.



Scout 26, your Hispanic, African-American, Pacific Islander, Native American, Aleut/Inuit, Caucasian Moderator.

I just filled one of those forms 2 weeks ago, and I didn't see a box for "Moderator".  (besides, isn't that a slur?)

[Scout26]

I just filled one of those forms 2 weeks ago, and I didn't see a box for "Moderator".  (besides, isn't that a slur?)

Yes, the vileist of slurs.  Which is why it isn't on the form.   

[Perd Hapley]

As far as I know, none of my direct genetics is from or even passed through the Caucasus Mountain region within recorded history, so I'm at a bit of a loss on why any sane person would expect me to claim it.

This. Of all the terms that deserve to be scrapped as offensive, Caucasian is definitely one of them. It is racist in origin, and there is no reason to continue its use. "White" or "European" make more sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people#19th_and_20th_century:_the_.22Caucasian_race.22

[Perd Hapley]

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