Author Topic: Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.  (Read 10592 times)

The Rabbi

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2006, 11:46:35 AM »
Quote from: fistful
OK then, you're right, we'll just give up.
Good response.
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The Rabbi

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2006, 11:47:39 AM »
Quote from: Desertdog
Quote
All the 9/11 hijackers were here legally.
They did arrive in the USA legally, but were they legal when they hijacked the planes, or had they overstayed their visas.
I don't know the answer to that.  Nor is it relevant for the point at hand, namely that you cannot tell with much certainty who is a "good" immigrant and who is a "bad" immigrant at the border.
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Perd Hapley

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2006, 11:54:35 AM »
Since it doesn't work perfectly, we should not do it at all.  Right.
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The Rabbi

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2006, 11:58:09 AM »
Quote from: fistful
Since it doesn't work perfectly, we should not do it at all.  Right.
Yet another thoughtful response.
Do what exactly?
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HankB

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2006, 12:07:54 PM »
Some people appear to oppose a wall because it won't keep EVERYONE out . . . it's not a perfect solution.

If "perfection" were the standard before implementing a solution, everything from antibiotics to prisons wouldn't exist, since nothing is a "perfect" solution to a problem.

A wall won't keep all illegal aliens out - but it will keep some out!

Imposing heavy fines on those who hire illegals won't end the practice - but it WILL dissuade some employers from hiring illegals.

Rendering illegals inelegible for ALL benefits won't make them all leave - but some will!

Mass deportations, elimination of in-state tuition for illegal aliens at state universities, abolishing "sanctuary city" policies, no automatic citizenship for "anchor babies" born to illegal alien mothers . . . none of these solutions will, in and of itself, be perfect.

Taken together, we still won't get rid of illegal aliens 100%.

But we CAN put an enormous dent in their numbers . . . and that's a good thing to do, considering the billions it costs to educate, medicate, and incarcerate illegals.
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The Rabbi

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2006, 12:11:27 PM »
I'm not arguing that these solutions arent perfect.  I am arguing they arent workable at all.  A wall will keep no one out.  The other solutions will be worse than the problem they are supposed to address.  How will employers know?  And do you really think the rest of us will be unaffected by this government intrusion in the workplace?
And all of your arguments could be applied to guns as well, with equally dubious results.

And lo and behold, Nashville comes to prove my point.  Fresh off the wires today:
Quote
Metro Councilman introduces unenforceable immigration proposals

By LEE ANN O'NEAL
Staff Writer

Two Metro Council measures aimed at curbing illegal immigration to Nashville seek to punish people who hire or rent to those immigrants.

But if approved by the Metro Council, the proposals could not be enforced unless the state legislature changed current state law, an attorney for the Metro Council said.
   

Councilman Jim Gotto of Hermitage is the sponsor of the two Metro Council bills, which were filed Monday and will be up for the first of three required votes on Oct. 17.

One aims to bar landlords from collecting rent from illegal immigrants - and would bar landlords from renting at all in Davidson County after the first offense.

A second would suspend the business licenses of employers who hire illegal immigrants.

Neither proposal would have enforcement power unless the state legislature passed measures to permit them, Metro Council attorney Jon Cooper said.

"The council could pass it. It just couldn't be enforced," Cooper said of the landlord bill.

Of the employment bill, he said, "There's no authority under state law to do this."

Gotto acknowledged these limitations but said he hoped the measures would still spark dialogue and put public pressure on the state legislature.

Illegal immigrants "are getting benefits and services, they are working at jobs," Gotto said. "They're not paying their fair share of the tax burden, more than likely."

Gotto said he patterned his legislation after a measure passed in Hazleton, Pa. The American Civil Liberties Union and the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund have filed suit against the city, according to The Record of Bergen County, N.J.

"When the public gets excited about something, and it's obvious they're all excited, our state legislature will finally do something," Gotto said. He said he had not yet talked with any state legislators about the proposal. ²
As a landlord I would do whatever I could to block this proposal, which essentially turns me into a law enforcement officer for the state.
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Desertdog

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2006, 05:40:17 PM »
Quote
Some people appear to oppose a wall because it won't keep EVERYONE out . . . it's not a perfect solution.
A wall will not keep every illegal alien out, no matter how high and how good it is.  It really isn't intended to.  It will force many more of them to use a legal entry point.

Stopping financial aid, school tution, jobs, and other financial benifits for illegal aliens won't stop them either, but it will stop the rewards for being here.

Yes, there needs to be a legal way for foreign nationals to be able to come here and work for a time, esoecially farm laborers, but then they need to go back to their own country.  

The ones that come over and work illegally should not be considered for citizenship.

The Rabbi

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2006, 05:52:00 PM »
Quote from: Desertdog
Quote
Some people appear to oppose a wall because it won't keep EVERYONE out . . . it's not a perfect solution.
A wall will not keep every illegal alien out, no matter how high and how good it is.  It really isn't intended to.  It will force many more of them to use a legal entry point.

Stopping financial aid, school tution, jobs, and other financial benifits for illegal aliens won't stop them either, but it will stop the rewards for being here.

Yes, there needs to be a legal way for foreign nationals to be able to come here and work for a time, esoecially farm laborers, but then they need to go back to their own country.  

The ones that come over and work illegally should not be considered for citizenship.
Some people just don't get it.

There are millions of illegal aliens here.  It is impossible to root out even 10% of them.  And once you did, then what?  Send them to Mexico, where they will come right back in?
Many of them are so integrated into American society that they are virtually impossible to distinguish from legal immigrants or American citizens.  It would take draconian measures of the kind everyone on this board hates and denounces to enforce it.  Citizenship papers, please?
Do people pushing for "strict immigration laws" not understand they are pushing for a police state?  Do they think that law enforcement on that scale will somehow, magically, target only illegals, or people with dark skin, or Hispanic surnames or whatever?  It wont.  It will target every American, just as airport security has targeted every American.  But it will be more so.
Here I've cited a bill from Nashville's idiotic council that would not only turn most landlords here into criminals, but would take away our livelihood.  Who will take the risk of renting apartments etc in those circumstances?  Not me.  But this is the kind of proposal that we will see more of.
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Perd Hapley

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2006, 06:09:42 PM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
Some people just don't get it.
Very true.
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CAnnoneer

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2006, 06:27:15 PM »
Quote from: fistful
Quote from: The Rabbi
Some people just don't get it.
Very true.
Nah. I think Rabbi gets it. He just refuses to admit it, because it would not fit his chosen worldview.

"All narcotics are evil" - Try root canal without novocaine, then come back and tell us.
"Open borders" - Hundreds of millions of immigrants within a few years guaranteed. Shoulder the consequences?
"You can't stop it completely, so why try to at all?" - Stop brushing your teeth, eating, drinking, or living for that matter?

Hehehehe.

Perd Hapley

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #85 on: October 11, 2006, 03:16:47 AM »
Why does CAnny's "hehehehe" always give me a disturbing chill down the spine?
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The Rabbi

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #86 on: October 11, 2006, 04:10:09 AM »
Quote from: fistful
Why does CAnny's "hehehehe" always give me a disturbing chill down the spine?
Kind of like those pics of Saddam Hussein with the British tourists he captured.  He was filmed with one little boy and trying to look like your best uncle.  The boy was clearly nervous and the pic gave me the creeps.
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CAnnoneer

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #87 on: October 12, 2006, 05:11:57 PM »
Quote from: fistful
Why does CAnny's "hehehehe" always give me a disturbing chill down the spine?
Hehehehe.

Perd Hapley

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #88 on: October 12, 2006, 05:40:18 PM »
Stop doing that!
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CAnnoneer

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #89 on: October 12, 2006, 08:16:31 PM »

Perd Hapley

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #90 on: October 12, 2006, 08:29:12 PM »
I don't want to know how you found that bit of fancruft.
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CAnnoneer

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #91 on: October 12, 2006, 08:31:10 PM »
Quote from: fistful
I don't want to know how you found that bit of fancruft.
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Perd Hapley

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #92 on: October 12, 2006, 08:35:19 PM »
Feeling all mystical tonight, I see.  It doesn't look good on you.  Tongue
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CAnnoneer

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #93 on: October 12, 2006, 08:41:42 PM »
Quote from: fistful
Feeling all mystical tonight, I see.  It doesn't look good on you.  Tongue
A rational mind does not need to be devoid of imagination. The difference between such and a mystic mind is the ability to differentiate between dreams and reality.

Perd Hapley

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #94 on: October 12, 2006, 08:53:40 PM »
Ah, unable to keep from preaching the gospel of pure reason.
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CAnnoneer

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #95 on: October 12, 2006, 10:32:03 PM »
Quote from: fistful
Ah, unable to keep from preaching the gospel of pure reason.
Intellectual honesty must be self-consistent, even if self-consistency is not necessarily intellectually honest.

Sindawe

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #96 on: October 12, 2006, 11:34:13 PM »
Quote
Hehehehe
Don't forget the end meet by that...aberration.
Quote
I don't want to know how you found that bit of fancruft.
Oh come on fistful, don't try to claim that you've not read The Darth Side: Memoirs of a Monster.

So Mexico is "unhappy" about us Americans plans to erect a fence on our mutual boundary, eh?  Well tough Poecile sclateri-ies!.  If the fine folks of Mexico had attended to their own social problems and faults in their culture, we'd not be having this discussion.  But NOOOOO!!!...  So here we are, facing this dilemma of playing host to a guest who has grown not only tiresome and taxing, but indeed belligerent to his host.  And He WILL NOT LEAVE.

Granted, all we as a culture have done is grumble and bicker amongst ourselves while the Barbarian relieves himself in our gardens and slaughters our egg hens for his supper.

Funny how the wheel turns, is it not?
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Stand_watie

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #97 on: October 13, 2006, 04:44:42 AM »
Quote from: Sindawe
..So Mexico is "unhappy" about us Americans plans to erect a fence on our mutual boundary, eh?  ...
Actually the fence will be on our side of the boundary.
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CAnnoneer

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #98 on: October 13, 2006, 06:51:57 AM »
Quote from: Sindawe
Don't forget the end meet by that...aberration.
Alternatives invariably seem to involve similar ends after prolonged periods of hiding in third-rate toilets...

richyoung

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Mexico angered by decision to increase security at border.
« Reply #99 on: October 13, 2006, 08:04:03 AM »
Quote from: The Rabbie
Some people just don't get it.

There are millions of illegal aliens here.
I had millions of bacteria the last time I had strep throat - still took my antibiotics, tho...
Quote
It is impossible to root out even 10% of them.  And once you did, then what?  Send them to Mexico, where they will come right back in?
No need to "roo them out" any more than we rooted them in...remove the economic $ "anchor baby" incentives & they wil go away on their own.
Quote
Many of them are so integrated into American society that they are virtually impossible to distinguish from legal immigrants or American citizens.
Which is precisely the PROBLEM when it comes to things like...voting, drawing Social Security, serving on juries, putting kids into school, gettting welfare, etc...
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...