Another reason to stop treating teen as adults

[vaskidmark]

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/13/in-interrogations-teenagers-are-too-young-to-know-better/?_php=true&_type=blogs&ref=science&_r=0

Even when police interrogators left the room, cameras kept recording the teenage suspects. Some paced. Several curled up and slept. One sobbed loudly, hitting his head against the wall, berating himself. Two boys, left alone together, discussed their offense, joking.

What none did, however, was exercise his constitutional rights. It was not clear whether the youths even understood them.

Therefore none had a lawyer at his side. None left, though all were free to do so, and none remained silent. Some 37 percent made full confessions, and 31 percent made incriminating statements.

These were among the observations in a recent study of 57 videotaped interrogations of teenagers, ages 13 to 17, from 17 police departments around the country. The research, published in Law and Human Behavior, adds to accumulating evidence that teenagers are psychologically vulnerable at the gateway to the criminal justice system. Youths, some researchers say, merit special protections.

....

Dr. Steinberg once asked a 12-year-old about the right to remain silent. In his new book, “Age of Opportunity: Lessons From the New Science of Adolescence,” he recounts how the boy, who recognized the Miranda warnings from watching “Law & Order,” replied: “It means that you don’t have to say anything until the police officer asks you a question.” Some jurisdictions require that parents be present for interrogations of teenagers. In Dr. Cleary’s study, only 12 suspects were accompanied by parents during portions of the interviews, whose duration ranged from six minutes to five hours, with the average about 45 minutes.

But if parents are not legally savvy, their presence may not serve young suspects well.

In the videos, five parents remained largely silent. Some lectured their children and then questioned them, taking on the interrogator’s role. A few parents urged their children to come clean, inadvertently sealing their fate.

Parents have conflicting roles, Dr. Cleary said. “They want to defend their children against accusations of wrongdoing. But we also socialize children to obey the law and tell the truth.

“Some parents might have felt compelled to use the situation as a teachable moment, or they might have felt their parenting skills were being threatened.” Dr. Cleary said. “It’s not fair to put parents in that situation, particularly without a lawyer.”But how do parents balance encouraging children to respect authority against the harm that can befall them by speaking with interrogators?

Dr. Steinberg suggests that parents tell teenagers: “If you’re being questioned by police because they think you’ve done something bad, say you need to talk to your parents first.” Parents can decide whether to call a lawyer.

Somehow it seems like putting the onus on parents to decide to lawyer up their kid is as unwise as letting the kids tough it out alone.

I'm not exactly enamored of the idea of how young kids are being treated as adults in the criminal justice system.  This just seems to add to the reasons for not continually lowering the age at which the adult hammer can be dropped.  (Full disclosure: I am also very displeased at how the juvenile justice system is being run.)

stay safe.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

How do those stats stack up next to adults in the same position! I've seen older folks do all those things


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[brimic]

How do those stats stack up next to adults in the same position! I've seen older folks do all those things


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That. If there us blame to go anywhere, its the school system. I didn't fully understand my rights until maybe 15 years out if school, and only because I took an interest and started digging myself.

Mark this date on the calendar as the day I'm in the same corner as CSD

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Lol. Yea it happens


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[MicroBalrog]

THe government's plan is extremely wise:

1. We treat adolescents as adults in terms of prosecuting them for crimes.

2. We treat them as children in terms of how much freedom they're allowed to have.

Everyone wins!

...well, the government wins, you don't.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Except we don't treat them as adults  when it comes to crimes

[MicroBalrog]

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/232434.pdf

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You gotta be special to get tried as an adult. I know kids who committed murder who didn't pull 2 years


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[MechAg94]

I have heard some countries go the other way and coddle juvenile criminals to the point that they often don't bother arresting them and adults get in trouble if they do anything to defend themselves or stop the crime. 

[T.O.M.]

Juvenile justice sucks.  And I say that as someone who has spent most of the past 20 years working in the juvenile justice system.  I could go on and on, but I'll say this...I've worked in all aspects of the court system, and there's no place I'd rather work.  It's the one place in the system where you actually can make a difference in what you do.  Treat a juvenile the right way, and that kid may never commit an offense again.  Give them a hand up at the right time, and you may help her turn her life around.  It's the one place in the system where there is still some hope.

As to the OP, the law (at least in Ohio) requires that the court consider the age, intellect, and experience of a juvenile before admitting any statement/confession.  I personally have thrown out a few confessions because the circumstances led me to conclude that the juvenile's constitutional rights were violated.  Sometimes by an overly aggressive officer (or officers), sometimes simply because the juvenile's own limitations made what would normally have been a good questioning unconstitutional.

And, about the parent issue...in my opinion the parent issue is a landmine.  I've seen parents go into an interview room and become the "bad cop" in the situation forcing a confession.  Seen parents overrule the juvenile's request for an attorney.  heck, I've pissed off more than a few parents in court when they come in and say things like"he's admitting to this because I don't want to take any more vacation time coming back here," and then I don't accept the guilty plea and order an attorney and guardian ad litem appointed.

Yep, it's just juvenile court after all.  Gotta love it.

[DustinD]

This stuff should be covered in schools. Not that public schools would ever *actually* teach constitutional rights.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Shoot it's not just kids. The latest babble I hear is folks demanding probable cause on the side of the road . The stupid it burns


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[T.O.M.]

Shoot it's not just kids. The latest babble I hear is folks demanding probable cause on the side of the road . The stupid it burns


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I actually had a cop tell me one time when I was a prosecutor that your didn't need probable cause to search a kid or the kid's pack, because kids don't have rights...

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

When I was a kid that was probably the case


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[T.O.M.]

Different world now from when we were kids.  As a high school student, I EDC'd a Swiss Army Knife, even at school, and many times had teachers borrow it from me in class.  As the Eagle Scout in the room, no one batted an eye.  It was a tool, not a weapon.  Hell, I even carried on commercial airliners back then. 

Wish things hadn't changed, as I'd like to teach my kids to EDC a pocket knife...always.

[MechAg94]

At least half the kids in my high school carried pocket knives.  The main change from maybe earlier generations is no one had guns at least that they spoke about.  

I do know of a kid that got in some hot water over a potential breaking and entering.  The parents were ticked off because the cop showed up at the school and questioned the kids there without talking to the parents.  It ended up with a plea and probabtion which went away at 18 thankfully for them.  No permanent issues.  The 80's weren't exactly the old days though. 

[KD5NRH]

At least half the kids in my high school carried pocket knives.

Heck, I think about a quarter of the girls in my HS carried something along the lines of the little Victorinox with a penknife blade, a nail file and tweezers.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

1977 pg county md. We carried. Lots of things.


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[BryanP]

At least half the kids in my high school carried pocket knives.  The main change from maybe earlier generations is no one had guns at least that they spoke about.  

I do know of a kid that got in some hot water over a potential breaking and entering.  The parents were ticked off because the cop showed up at the school and questioned the kids there without talking to the parents.  It ended up with a plea and probabtion which went away at 18 thankfully for them.  No permanent issues.  The 80's weren't exactly the old days though. 

Keep telling yourself that.  I'm going to have to decide soon if I'm attending my 30th high school reunion, class of 1986.

And yeah, I've EDC'd a pocket knife since I was 9.

[Scout26]

At my high school in the late 1970's/early 1980's a  Buck 101 knife was practically a requirement for boys.   

My son practically flipped out when he went through my yearbooks and saw pictures of kids shooting .22 rifles and pistols on the school's range, holding up knives and swords made in Metal shop, and Social Studies teachers holding Carbines, SMLEs and Springfield Civil War rifles in various pictures.

Things that would get schools locked down today and those involved shot or at least tasered and given jail time. 

[lupinus]

Even 70's/80's NJ would frequently bring their rifles to school, and depending on the exact school they were in either store it in their locker or check it with the office, or a shop teacher if they planned to work on it, and then pick it up on the way in and out so they could pop squirrels and such on the way home. I was one of the last classes that they let use a bow, though the guns were gone by then.

As usual, the issues aren't the guns or the knives. It's the culture.