Grand Jury has a verdict in Ferguson

[zxcvbob]

A white man has apparently been beaten to death by "teens" with hammers in St Louis. No hard evidence on this being related to the protests, but also no civil rights outcry about the dead white guy.

http://twitchy.com/2014/11/30/story-to-watch-teens-beat-motorist-to-death-with-hammers-in-st-louis/

Blacks in St. Louis are dangerously close to getting the race war they want; they don't realize it will be a real war.  Fifty years of civil rights progress thrown away.  Whitey gettin' tired of this *expletive deleted*.

Fistful, you might wanna be careful for a while.

[Boomhauer]

A white man has apparently been beaten to death by "teens" with hammers in St Louis. No hard evidence on this being related to the protests, but also no civil rights outcry about the dead white guy.

http://twitchy.com/2014/11/30/story-to-watch-teens-beat-motorist-to-death-with-hammers-in-st-louis/

That was just a mob of good upstanding church going choir boys who were letting off some steam in innocent, harmless fun.

Wait for an article justifying murder just like the articles justifying looting and rioting...

[Perd Hapley]

A white man has apparently been beaten to death by "teens" with hammers in St Louis. No hard evidence on this being related to the protests, but also no civil rights outcry about the dead white guy.

http://twitchy.com/2014/11/30/story-to-watch-teens-beat-motorist-to-death-with-hammers-in-st-louis/

Calls to mind this little opinion piece.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/11/26/ferguson-also-again-guns.html


I'm pretty sure Canada allows teenagers to have hammers.

[Firethorn]

Cops need to identify the pedestrians involved and make them pay for any damage to the car.

I don't find this particularly high road.  I also find it interesting that most of the protestors I saw were white.  I may not support what they're protesting(though I suppose there's an element of 'straw that broke the camel's back), but I don't wish for them to be run over when they're peacefully protesting.  Even if I think they'd do better outside of the intersection.

But a black church gets burned during the same "protest," and it's major news and the feds are already involved. (Even though, as far as I know, arson is a state-level crime, not a federal offense.) Smells a lot like reverse discrimination to me.

That's due to the deep south, KKK and what not.  Burning a church, especially a black one, is automatically considered a possible hate crime and what not.

The other stores?  They have insurance and deep pockets.  The church's congregation may not.

A white man has apparently been beaten to death by "teens" with hammers in St Louis. No hard evidence on this being related to the protests, but also no civil rights outcry about the dead white guy.

Was he killed by a police officer?  They've arrested the suspected perps?  That's the way things are supposed to go.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

When they started pounding on car they volunteered to be speed bumps


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[Ben]

Was he killed by a police officer? 

Was he committing a crime? It looks like he was just trying to live his life and that he was murdered in a hate crime. Minding his own business without being murdered should fall somewhere in the civil rights realm.

The circumstances here are very similar to the Reginald Denny incident.

[Balog]

I don't find this particularly high road.  I also find it interesting that most of the protestors I saw were white.  I may not support what they're protesting(though I suppose there's an element of 'straw that broke the camel's back), but I don't wish for them to be run over when they're peacefully protesting.  Even if I think they'd do better outside of the intersection.

That's due to the deep south, KKK and what not.  Burning a church, especially a black one, is automatically considered a possible hate crime and what not.

The other stores?  They have insurance and deep pockets.  The church's congregation may not.

Was he killed by a police officer?  They've arrested the suspected perps?  That's the way things are supposed to go.

Wow...

So a mob attacking a car isn't a good reason to try to flee, and arson isn't a big deal if it's against corporations cause those fatcat small business owners have deep pockets.

Given the format differences, I'm not sure how you mixed up your APS and Democratic Underground accounts.

[roo_ster]

Wow...

So a mob attacking a car isn't a good reason to try to flee, and arson isn't a big deal if it's against corporations cause those fatcat small business owners have deep pockets.

Given the format differences, I'm not sure how you mixed up your APS and Democratic Underground accounts.

Don't worry, the insurance companies will pay for it from their stash.

[MechAg94]

Don't worry, the insurance companies will pay for it from their stash.

Yeah, they won't just pay what they are legally obligated to pay, they will write a big check to cover all expenses, lost revenue, lost pay of the employees who work there, etc, etc. 

Firethorn, were you failing at scarcasm or have you never filed an insurance claim or run a small business? 

[KD5NRH]

Yeah, they won't just pay what they are legally obligated to pay, they will write a big check to cover all expenses, lost revenue, lost pay of the employees who work there, etc, etc.

That's the part I haven't been able to get across to some people that think insurance is a substitute for personal responsibility.  It doesn't even occur to them that they might have been up for a decent raise or promotion at work had they not missed a bunch of half days dealing with the claims, gotten behind in the time they didn't quite miss because they were on the phone arguing with the insurance company, etc.  They don't even factor in the loss of a couple days' pay, or wasted sick days/floating holidays/whatever.

[Ron]

Wow...

So a mob attacking a car isn't a good reason to try to flee, and arson isn't a big deal if it's against corporations cause those fatcat small business owners have deep pockets.

Given the format differences, I'm not sure how you mixed up your APS and Democratic Underground accounts.

Attempting to flee is not what was being objected to; making light and a joke about running over folks was the point of contention.

Ignoring or showing a lack of empathy to the "optics" of a black church being burnt down shows a lack of historical perspective and plays into the hands of the potential provocateurs who actually burnt the church down. My gut tells me that whoever burnt it and regardless of the reason wants the 'white' community to dismiss it and further the outrage. The cynic in me would say the church was also insured for the loss and they will end up making money between donations and insurance. If you look at it nobody wins by burning that church except the church. That still doesn't change the narrative that will be told and in reality everyone is presumed innocent until proof otherwise is presented. The police force should run a fundraiser for them and help them out. 

There are smart folks who are pulling the strings and disseminating the propaganda. If you are going to be a good guy then you overcome evil with good as much as possible. The media narrative needs to be shown to be a crock of BS and it might take some folks sucking it up and being the bigger person to show that to the folks being manipulated.   

[Balog]

Attempting to flee is not what was being objected to; making light and a joke about running over folks was the point of contention.

Ignoring or showing a lack of empathy to the "optics" of a black church being burnt down shows a lack of historical perspective and plays into the hands of the potential provocateurs who actually burnt the church down. My gut tells me that whoever burnt it and regardless of the reason wants the 'white' community to dismiss it and further the outrage. The cynic in me would say the church was also insured for the loss and they will end up making money between donations and insurance. If you look at it nobody wins by burning that church except the church. That still doesn't change the narrative that will be told and in reality everyone is presumed innocent until proof otherwise is presented. The police force should run a fundraiser for them and help them out. 

There are smart folks who are pulling the strings and disseminating the propaganda. If you are going to be a good guy then you overcome evil with good as much as possible. The media narrative needs to be shown to be a crock of BS and it might take some folks sucking it up and being the bigger person to show that to the folks being manipulated.   

Ignoring or showing a lack of empathy to the "optics" of burning down innocent businesses shows a lot of things too.

[Hawkmoon]

The other stores?  They have insurance and deep pockets.  The church's congregation may not.

So this justifies arson? "They have insurance"?

[Firethorn]

When they started pounding on car they volunteered to be speed bumps

In at least the first video it appeared that they started beating on the car AFTER he had plowed into the crowd.  Escaping the mob I don't object to.  Plowing into them in the first place does.

Firethorn, were you failing at scarcasm or have you never filed an insurance claim or run a small business?  

I think you guys are misreading what I attempted to say.  I was trying to say that arson against a minority church/religious building attracts federal attention due to incidents in the south back in the day, specifically due to hate crime legislation.  That's why the feds are involved in that.  It was NOT a value judgement on the laws or investigation.

As for the stores, it was specifically mentioned that they were all NATIONAL chain stores.  MechAg94, 'insurance and deep pockets' IE insurance for 'most of it', the bank account for the rest.  Running a church, for most churches, is a lot more like running a small business than a national chain store.  Thus my increased concern for it, because I'd rate it less likely to have the reserves, much less full insurance, to recover from the incident.

That DOES NOT justify arson Hawkmoon, that justifies it being a local police investigation as opposed to federal involvement.  

Ron was the one that got it - I wasn't objecting to the attempt to flee.  I was objecting to making light of running over people.  They're protesting, they should be allowed to protest(peacefully).  Not have somebody in a car plow through them.

[Ron]

Ignoring or showing a lack of empathy to the "optics" of burning down innocent businesses shows a lot of things too.

Considering the source of the original comment maybe less than your attributing.

This is a PR and propaganda war as much as anything else. Myself, I don't wish, long or hope for a race war.

Jots tittles winning battles losing wars etc.

Nobody here condones burning down big box stores or small churches. The emotional power and propaganda value of a black church being burned down is not the same as that as an evil corporate store or franchise being attacked.

The folks rioting are being manipulated by the same group who we would consider political enemies.

That is perhaps an opportunity if handled correctly. Not so much if you are itching to go to arms.   

  

[griz]

As for the stores, it was specifically mentioned that they were all NATIONAL chain stores.  

I don't know who you want to believe, but I saw interviews with local owners who were not at all national chain stores.  One, the owner of a beauty shop that had just put everything she had in to getting the store open, was obviously heartbroken.  Even if she was insured, do you think her view of the community is still supportive?

[dogmush]

The store that Brown (allegedly ) robbed didn't seem like a national brand, and was looted.

[Boomhauer]

Peaceful protestors, where? Been looking for them all week long...


*expletive deleted*ck the thugs, *expletive deleted*ck the thug supporters. All the ones in the streets screaming Kill Whitey, which the crowd that pulled the guy from the car was reportedly screaming? *expletive deleted*ck THEM.

[Firethorn]

I don't know who you want to believe, but I saw interviews with local owners who were not at all national chain stores.  One, the owner of a beauty shop that had just put everything she had in to getting the store open, was obviously heartbroken.  Even if she was insured, do you think her view of the community is still supportive?

Nope.  I feel for her and wish her the best of luck in her continued pursuits as well as the hopefully speedy apprehension, prosecution, and punishment of the offender(s).  Though she's likely a member of the community, or at least was.

Going back to Hawkmoon's post, which I responded to, I'm going to have to modify things a bit:  I failed to see the 'dozen or so buildings', but concentrated on the mentioning of 3 national chain stores.  IE I thought he was equating federal investigation of the burning of the church as unfair when 3 national stores were and they weren't attracting federal attention.

I hope for the conviction and punishment of ALL involved in burning the buildings down, but I personally increase the tragedy levels by how personal the loss is - a national chain store isn't very personal.  A church can be.  Businesses are in the middle, with sole proprietorships tending towards very personal.

[Angel Eyes]

Peaceful protestors, where? Been looking for them all week long...

Some of the "peaceful" protests in San Francisco: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/SFPD-79-arrested-5-cops-wounded-in-ugly-protest-5928429.php

and video (contains NSFW language): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yxeux8H_UNI

I do not envy the SFPD.

[Ron]

The real bad guys aren't the looters.

Taking up arms against them if threatened or denouncing them on moral grounds is fine but gets us nowhere. The media LOVES the idea of armed middle aged white guys ranting against poor black looters.

Who are the real bad guys?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I wait to see who actually burned the church .,pardon my cynical,nature


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[onions!]

Some of the "peaceful" protests in San Francisco: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/SFPD-79-arrested-5-cops-wounded-in-ugly-protest-5928429.php

and video (contains NSFW language): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yxeux8H_UNI

I do not envy the SFPD.

Water cannons.Lots and lots of water cannons.Followed by giant squeegees monted on street sweepers.
Abusive and abrasive.Those police show a LOT of restraint.
******************
edited to add.It finally occured to me that a group of non-police wearing riot gear could seriously *expletive deleted*ck some *expletive deleted*it up in one of those protests.And if they were careful and organized,could likely walk away unscathed.
Not a suggestion,more,an observation.

[Ron]

I wait to see who actually burned the church .,pardon my cynical,nature


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I'm with ya

The police holding a fundraiser for them is a win/win.

Helps em out and blunts the propaganda value of the event.

The left isn't looking for a Kumbayah moment with the right. They want to annihilate the right. Co-opting their base and treating them with more respect may be the best tactic.  

[Balog]

The real bad guys aren't the looters.

Taking up arms against them if threatened or denouncing them on moral grounds is fine but gets us nowhere. The media LOVES the idea of armed middle aged white guys ranting against poor black looters.

Who are the real bad guys?

That's an incredibly stupid thing to say. You're better than this Ron.