Author Topic: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016  (Read 7246 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2014, 01:18:43 AM »
Actually, he fits the left ist stereotype of Republicans. Disturbingly so.


Unless he has binders full of women, and firebombs black churches every weekend, I doubt it. That's an awfully high bar of hatred, greed, conformity, etc.


Thanks for the responses, all.
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Balog

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2014, 11:38:08 AM »
He spends like a liberal and is pro-amnesty. He's also one step below "legitimate rape" in terms of giving (blatantly false but effective) talking points to his opponents.
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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2014, 01:00:21 PM »
Santorum is a whackjob. He is the very personification of the wild eyed fundamentalist Christian that the left likes to portray as every conservative being. He's more interested in forcing his views on other people using the force of the government than letting people be.

I keep reading this.  Concrete examples would be nice.

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Balog

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2014, 01:02:56 PM »
I keep reading this.  Concrete examples would be nice.



He said that the state's have the right to ban gay marriage, therefore he's Christian Taliban and wants to stone anyone who uses a condom to death or something!!! War on Women!!!!
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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2014, 01:09:39 PM »
He said that the state's have the right to ban gay marriage, therefore he's Christian Taliban and wants to stone anyone who uses a condom to death or something!!! War on Women!!!!

That is the usual fare I recall reading WRT Santorum when he was running for GOPPOTUS candidate in the MSM. 

The other schtick was to get a recording of him saying something in accordance with the R Catholic catechism and the pinhead MSMers and various other libertine pinheads going nutty and claiming he's a whackjob.  For--let us be clear--hewing to the doctrine that 1 billion+ R Catholics are supposed to cleave to.

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roo_ster

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2014, 01:53:54 PM »
I keep reading this.  Concrete examples would be nice.

Check out a copy of his book, "It Takes a Family", from the library. he's not exactly shy about it.

Example. He's Catholic, so he's against artificial birth control. He believes birth control devalues the act of procreation, even for married couples. He wants, if elected, to defund access to contraception for anything getting public funding. Not sure if that'd involve the military as well, but probably. Mind you, he's including condoms, not just birth control pills for women. And he wants abortion to be illegal.

Now I'm not saying I don't understand the ideological platform to say the federal government shouldn't have the authority to deny states the right to ban abortions as well as funding for public welfare should be reduced. I understand both very well, but combined is a bit of ... cognitive disconnect. Providing contraception is the ONE form of public assistance that I believe even the most hardcore libertarians should endorse on pragmatic grounds.

He also strongly believes that Griswold and Eisenstadt (SCOTUS cases on contraception being sold to married couples) overreached on "right to privacy". His opinion is since it's not an enumerated right, it should receive significantly less or no Constitutional protection. Dude is more into opposing contraception than any Catholic priest or official I've ever met.

Dude also stated if elected, he'd set his AG on enforcing extremely old porn laws that haven't been repealed or found blatantly unconstitutional.

He's a Creationist, and beyond just the literal translation of the Book of Genesis. Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, except he wants it presented as fact rather than religion/ideological/opinion. I'm not sure, but you get the sen he does not believe in natural micro-evolution such as drug resistant microbes or natural selection. He always specifically used the term biological evolution, so you're never quite sure. The Santorum Amendment was a thankfully meaningless showpiece with no weight.

Really, this quote is the best summation of the man's character and the importance of never letting the man hold another position of any authority:

Quote
"They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do. Government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulation low and that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn't get involved in cultural issues, you know, people should do whatever they want. Well, that is not how traditional conservatives view the world, and I think most conservatives understand that individuals can't go it alone...."

Not even most Republicans liked the guy too much, but he was a high ranking Republican and most of his opponents sucked, so he got the party support. Until his fall from grace. Oddly enough, he pulled a Lucifer and announced his support for Arlen Specter over Toomey. Bob Casey, Jr. isn't perfect, but I've known the guy since I was 12 and he's not a bad person. I don't agree with all of his politics, but I supported him a hell of a lot more than Santorum.

Santorum lost by largest margin of defeat for an incumbent senator in over three decades. I'm only shocked that it was "only" an 18% victory. Trust me, if you throw out your incumbent senator by that margin, you don't want the guy as President. He's in the cold for his betrayal of party loyalty and from his own state. There's no chance he'll win even the primary. Which means he has alternative motives for running.


The only part I can add is... I've known and met the guy. I know lots of people with different aspects of his beliefs. But this guy really, really, to-his-very-core actually believes his ideology. It's hard to explain. But again, you do not want this man in any position of power, public trust or authority.
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RevDisk

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2014, 02:03:36 PM »
He said that the state's have the right to ban gay marriage, therefore he's Christian Taliban and wants to stone anyone who uses a condom to death or something!!! War on Women!!!!

No, he wants fines or prison time for anyone who uses a condom. Period, end of line. Heterosexual or homosexual, married or unmarried, young or old, etc.

He's only weakly pro-Death penalty. He's against gay marriage obviously. He's only moderately against women's rights, contrary to the MSM's beliefs. Unless you're including abortion or contraception into women's rights, of course. He's very much a "women morally and religiously belong in the kitchen" type Republican, but also supports equal opportunity.
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Balog

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2014, 02:06:11 PM »
No, he wants fines or prison time for anyone who uses a condom. Period, end of line. Heterosexual or homosexual, married or unmarried, young or old, etc.

He's only weakly pro-Death penalty. He's against gay marriage obviously. He's only moderately against women's rights, contrary to the MSM's beliefs. Unless you're including abortion or contraception into women's rights, of course. He's very much a "women morally and religiously belong in the kitchen" type Republican, but also supports equal opportunity.

I have not seen him anywhere state this. You yourself stated that he wanted to defund public provision of contraception. It seems highly disingenuous to equate "doesn't want to spend public funds on" with "wants to imprison you for doing."
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KD5NRH

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2014, 03:00:02 PM »
The only part I can add is... I've known and met the guy. I know lots of people with different aspects of his beliefs. But this guy really, really, to-his-very-core actually believes his ideology.

I have no problem with what he believes for himself and anyone willing to submit to his interpretations.  I have a huge problem with forcing any of it on those who don't believe as he does.  To refine it into a moral argument, being forced to a course of action removes all moral benefit; if I steal ten percent of your paycheck and give it to a church, it's not virtue that made that tithe happen, nor would forcing you to follow any other commandment make either of us virtuous, except to the extent that for some commandments ("thou shalt not steal," for example) I would be protecting a third party.

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2014, 03:13:19 PM »
Rev, that is some weak, weak sauce for accusations of whackjob and unsuitability for positions of authority.  Really, did you read what you wrote about the Santorum?  You gave exactly zero examples of extremism on his part.  All you have done is successfully indict him for not being a 21st century libertarian. 

Now, he is not my cup of tea.  I think he is just another northeastern establishment GOPer and that is reason enough for me not to like the guy.  No need to make shiniola up or accuse him of extremism when in actuality he seems more milquetoast centrist and the accusations are coming from the margins, as we see below.


Check out a copy of his book, "It Takes a Family", from the library. he's not exactly shy about it.

Example. He's Catholic, so he's against artificial birth control. He believes birth control devalues the act of procreation, even for married couples. He wants, if elected, to defund access to contraception for anything getting public funding. Not sure if that'd involve the military as well, but probably. Mind you, he's including condoms, not just birth control pills for women. And he wants abortion to be illegal.

Now I'm not saying I don't understand the ideological platform to say the federal government shouldn't have the authority to deny states the right to ban abortions as well as funding for public welfare should be reduced. I understand both very well, but combined is a bit of ... cognitive disconnect. Providing contraception is the ONE form of public assistance that I believe even the most hardcore libertarians should endorse on pragmatic grounds.

So, he is extreme for not wanting gov't to fund either abortions or birth control?  Opposing gov't/taxpayer-funded abortions is what's known as the majority position.  Opposing gov't/taxpayer provided contraception is evenly divided, not a fringe position.

And recent polling puts opposition to abortion of any sort over 50% the last few years.  How is a position held by HALF the country extreme?  Perhaps the distance from the center being measured is the accusers', not Santorum's?

He also strongly believes that Griswold and Eisenstadt (SCOTUS cases on contraception being sold to married couples) overreached on "right to privacy". His opinion is since it's not an enumerated right, it should receive significantly less or no Constitutional protection. Dude is more into opposing contraception than any Catholic priest or official I've ever met.

I disagree with Santorum on this, but his is not a fringe position on the case.

Dude also stated if elected, he'd set his AG on enforcing extremely old porn laws that haven't been repealed or found blatantly unconstitutional.

Again, not an extremist position in most parts of the country.

He's a Creationist, and beyond just the literal translation of the Book of Genesis. Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, except he wants it presented as fact rather than religion/ideological/opinion. I'm not sure, but you get the sen he does not believe in natural micro-evolution such as drug resistant microbes or natural selection. He always specifically used the term biological evolution, so you're never quite sure. The Santorum Amendment was a thankfully meaningless showpiece with no weight.

Really, this quote is the best summation of the man's character and the importance of never letting the man hold another position of any authority:

Quote
"They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do. Government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulation low and that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn't get involved in cultural issues, you know, people should do whatever they want. Well, that is not how traditional conservatives view the world, and I think most conservatives understand that individuals can't go it alone...."

Sorry, but an anti-utopian &  Burkean conception of society in not extreme, but one of the two major themes that have run throughout our republic.  There is nothing extreme in that quote.  [Burke was the one who argued against the extremism of the French Revolution and predicted it would end in blood and terror.  Paine was the one who ended up in French prison.]

Matter of fact, the quote is bland and obvious.  "Water is wet."  Quelle horreur!

Not even most Republicans liked the guy too much, but he was a high ranking Republican and most of his opponents sucked, so he got the party support. Until his fall from grace. Oddly enough, he pulled a Lucifer and announced his support for Arlen Specter over Toomey. Bob Casey, Jr. isn't perfect, but I've known the guy since I was 12 and he's not a bad person. I don't agree with all of his politics, but I supported him a hell of a lot more than Santorum.

Santorum lost by largest margin of defeat for an incumbent senator in over three decades. I'm only shocked that it was "only" an 18% victory. Trust me, if you throw out your incumbent senator by that margin, you don't want the guy as President. He's in the cold for his betrayal of party loyalty and from his own state. There's no chance he'll win even the primary. Which means he has alternative motives for running.


The only part I can add is... I've known and met the guy. I know lots of people with different aspects of his beliefs. But this guy really, really, to-his-very-core actually believes his ideology. It's hard to explain. But again, you do not want this man in any position of power, public trust or authority.

Equating honesty and integrity with extremism does play in some quarters.

Like I wrote upthread, his offense is to believe what nearly 1billion+ folk profess to believe most Sundays. 

================

I see no extremism, just folk who have swallowed the MSM load and vomit it forth on command. 

As is usual, Orwell's got folks' number:

Regards,

roo_ster

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RevDisk

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2014, 04:32:15 PM »
I have not seen him anywhere state this. You yourself stated that he wanted to defund public provision of contraception. It seems highly disingenuous to equate "doesn't want to spend public funds on" with "wants to imprison you for doing."
Rev, that is some weak, weak sauce for accusations of whackjob and unsuitability for positions of authority.  Really, did you read what you wrote about the Santorum?  You gave exactly zero examples of extremism on his part.  All you have done is successfully indict him for not being a 21st century libertarian. 

Now, he is not my cup of tea.  I think he is just another northeastern establishment GOPer and that is reason enough for me not to like the guy.  No need to make shiniola up or accuse him of extremism when in actuality he seems more milquetoast centrist and the accusations are coming from the margins, as we see below.

More than fair enough. I agree with the objections, aside from milquetoast centrist. I'm not trying to convict the guy, but all of that added up to him being tossed out on his ear.

I personally got bad vibes from dealing with him. I dealt with a good number of politicians. Most of them realize on some distant level that they're full of excrement, even if on most levels they're entitled selfish egotistical children that think their behavior should earn them a halo. Santorum is missing that. He believes what he's selling. He's still sane and a politician, so he moderates what he says to fit acceptable political narratives.

*shrug*


Whatever. Again, I'm not trying to brand the guy with a scarlet A. I just would not recommend voting for the guy. Even if I was a Party Loyalist Republican, I'd recommend not voting for the guy. If you want, send the guy money and drum up support within the GOP for him winning the primary.

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Balog

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2014, 04:49:56 PM »
Objecting to all the silly Christian Talibanelventyone!! rhetoric and attributing positions that he doesn't hold to man is in no way the same thing as being in favor of him holding office. Especially when we've repeatedly said we don't like him, wouldn't vote for him, and don't even want to see him in the primary. I can hate Obama but still disagree with the folks who say he's offering up child sacrifices to Baal in the Oval Office.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2014, 04:52:18 PM »
I can hate Obama but still disagree with the folks who say he's offering up child sacrifices to Baal in the Oval Office.

Once they said anyone who thought gays would be allowed to marry had to be crazy...

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2014, 05:03:39 PM »
I think I'm the only person here to have met him...

Loves big government, hates freedom,  loves spending money, meh on firearms but stayed away from the subject because he knew it was political suicide. Basically, think the worst strain of Republican. Actually, he fits the left ist stereotype of Republicans. Disturbingly so.

I met him also, he gave the eulogy at a friend's funeral. He would make a great neighbor, but not a president.

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roo_ster

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2014, 06:42:42 PM »
FTR, my purpose is not to flack for Santorum.  Never voted for the guy, doubt I ever will.  Northeastern establishment GOP can eat my shorts.

My purpose was to see if anyone could cite actual extremest(1) positions Santorum has taken or if folk were just parroting what they had heard and read from the MSM and ideological opponents. 

I think we know how that went: bupkis.  Maybe folk ought to think twice before believing accusations of extremism and whackjobbery of targets of MSM and attacks by the cultural marxists. 

On the other hand, I can cite examples of extremest positions and actions by, say, Al Sharpton:
1) Inciting a riot that lead to innocent third party deaths at Freddy's Fashion Mart.
2) Tawana Brawley.
3) Crown Heights Riots

Sharpton gets a teevee show while Santorum gets perpetual insults from folk who don't like him, but can't explain why. 

==================

(1) Not to play word games, but positions held by the majority or sizable minorities generally are not politically extreme.

ex·trem·ist
 (ĭk-strē′mĭst)
n.
A person who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.

ex·treme
 (ĭk-strēm′)
adj.
1. Most remote in any direction; outermost or farthest: the extreme edge of the field.
2. Being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree; very intense: extreme pleasure; extreme pain.
3. Being far beyond the norm: an extreme conservative. See Synonyms at excessive.
4. Of the greatest severity; drastic: took extreme measures to conserve fuel.
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roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Rick Santorum announces his candidacy for 2016
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2014, 07:53:04 PM »
21st-century "extremism" is when you want to slow the growth of spending on things government should have never have funded in the first place.

Or when you speak favorably of the same.

Or when you fail to oppose it.


An alternate definition would include any failure to be irrevocably convinced that the current president was born in CONUS.
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