Another doctor thinks vaccines cause mental diseases

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

This ones an eye doctor
I think some folks have heard of him
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/rand-paul-vaccines-can-lead-mental-disorders-n298821


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[dogmush]

That is...... very carefully edited.

[cordex]

That is...... very carefully edited.

No kidding.

CSD, what elements of Paul's position precisely do you take issue with?  The part about him believing vaccines are good?  Or that parents should have the choice of vaccinating their children?  Or that he has heard of cases of apparent correlation (although no proven causation, obviously) between vaccines and disorders?

[Perd Hapley]

It looks like he went too far in trying to accommodate the anti-vaxxers. He should have just said they should be voluntary, and let it go at that.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It was the mental disorders part.
I read it twice still couldn't believe he said it.
I don't agree about voluntary  but at least i can see how he could get there. But the rest?  So sad. You see how quick Christie back peddled?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Here's a quote
Benjamin Franklin. "In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the small-pox, taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly, and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer path should be chosen.”

[cordex]

I'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea. I think they are a good thing. But I think the parent should have some input. The state doesn't own our children. Parents own the children.

Seems right to me.  My youngest is getting a batch of them Friday.

I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines.

While I agree with fistful that this is going too far to placate nutters as it appears to lend credence to their claims, he is factually absolutely correct.  Some kids appear normal and at some point after receiving their vaccines develop issues.  My sister has a friend whose son fits that description precisely.  That doesn't mean that the vaccine was to blame, nor even if it were to blame that it is - all things considered - a net negative.

You are letting your anti-Paul bias run roughshod over your reading comprehension and capacity for nuance.

[Jocassee]

From Bloomberg:

UPDATE: A few hours after this story went up, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul appeared on CNBC and was asked to clarify if he thought most vaccines should be voluntary.
"I guess being for freedom would be really unusual?" Paul said, sarcastically. "I guess I don't understand the point, as to why that would be controversial."

As he clarified, he mostly stuck to what he'd said on talk radio today. Only toward the end of his answer did he explain the dangers, as he saw them, in vaccinating children.

"I've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," said Paul. "I'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea. I think they're a good thing. But I think the parents should have some input."

From Ace of Spades:

The only freedom that matters is the Freedom to Be Wrong.

...


People should be free, to the maximum extent bearable, to be as foolish, shortsighted, gullible and dumb as people naturally are.

We do not go looking for some cheap justification to demonstrate our social distaste for some people by criminalizing their choices.

By those lights -- which I think should be standard conservatism, not some kind of fringe libertarianism -- I see nothing wrong with Christie's statement.

He said that there must be a "balance" when taking actions which force people to undergo medical treatments to which they object.

Think about how serious that is -- forcing someone's kid to undergo a medical treatment to which they object.

The end of Ace's take is not flattering, even though I disagree with it somewhat I post it here because he makes a very salient point about Rand's electability:

why are you encouraging them to believe that vaccines cause mental retardation?

And you're a doctor, for God's sakes.

Eh, the Paul bunch, what can you do? They are John Bircher paleocon paranoids and always have been.

Rand's just his dad with a little bit of an internal editor.

I had had hope for Rand Paul and was open to his candidacy, but every time he or his conspiracy-addled lunatic father open their mouths, I cringe more.

The family has gotten politically rich off the same motto as that of the Ghostbusters:

We Are Prepared To Believe You.

Paul, Inc., exists because the cadre of paranoids and conspiracists likes to be flattered as having raised "Serious Questions," and will vote for anyone (and donate, and Subscribe to Your Newsletters) who so flatters them.

[brimic]

Seems right to me.  My youngest is getting a batch of them Friday.
While I agree with fistful that this is going too far to placate nutters as it appears to lend credence to their claims, he is factually absolutely correct.  Some kids appear normal and at some point after receiving their vaccines develop issues.  My sister has a friend whose son fits that description precisely.  That doesn't mean that the vaccine was to blame, nor even if it were to blame that it is - all things considered - a net negative.

You are letting your anti-Paul bias run roughshod over your reading comprehension and capacity for nuance.

I'm betting that nearly 100% of the kids with 'mental disorders' also ate vegetables in one form or another.... Therefore, vegetables cause autism.

[zxcvbob]

I think the chickenpox vaccine should be optional.  The HPV vaccine (Gardasil) should be optional and offered to both sexes, not just females.  I don't really have an opinion about some of the others, like hepatitis, meningitis, and pneumonia.

Measles, polio, tetanus, pertussis, diphtheria, and a few others (like smallpox if it ever gets going again) should be mandatory.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It's hard because some of the parents are do sincerely motivated.  It's hard to tell me they are wrong . The quacks that are playing them? I could drag behind a truck.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yes if I had a boy he would get hpv.
That's a pretty reasonable vaccination schedule you suggest..... you must know someone in medicine. ......

[cordex]

I'm betting that nearly 100% of the kids with 'mental disorders' also ate vegetables in one form or another.... Therefore, vegetables cause autism.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.   

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And then this doc
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ben-carson-vaccinations-philosophical-religious


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[brimic]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.   

i wasn't really disagreeing with you, just throwing out an example where correlation=/=causation.

I've argued with the nutters on the subject of vaccination before.... nothing useful ever comes of it..

[RoadKingLarry]

I'm betting that nearly 100% of the kids with 'mental disorders' also ate vegetables in one form or another.... Therefore, vegetables cause autism.

 
It's the dihydrogen  monoxide!!!!
Our public water supplies are full of it and the government put it there!!!!
Every single person that is exposed to DHMO will eventually die!!!!!
 

http://www.dhmo.org/

[Ron]

Even if it destroys the life of an occasional child the herd immunity is worth it...

[zxcvbob]

The anti-vaxers may have a point about the number of vaccines a kid gets these days.  20-something vaccines by age 6 months, and the hep-B shot is given on day of birth.  I don't remember it being nearly that many when my kid was a baby; she's 24 now.

But it seems MMR is the one they are all worked up over, and that's not until the kid is at least a year old.

[Ron]

They are really pushing the whooping cough/tetanus vaccine.

I went in for a check up and next thing you know they were trying to vaccinate me.

Mentally I wasn't prepared so I took a pass and figured I'd look into it and get it next time I'm in the office.

Tetanus I've had but what's with the whooping cough? Really I'd prefer to just get the ones that are necessary to hold off pandemics.

What is necessary and what is corporate marketing based on peddling fear?

[MechAg94]

I think the chickenpox vaccine should be optional.  The HPV vaccine (Gardasil) should be optional and offered to both sexes, not just females.  I don't really have an opinion about some of the others, like hepatitis, meningitis, and pneumonia.

Measles, polio, tetanus, pertussis, diphtheria, and a few others (like smallpox if it ever gets going again) should be mandatory.

I didn't even know there was a chickenpox virus. Are kids dying from chickenpox?  I never knew of a pneumonia vaccine either. 

[charby]

They are really pushing the whooping cough/tetanus vaccine.

I went in for a check up and next thing you know they were trying to vaccinate me.

Mentally I wasn't prepared so I took a pass and figured I'd look into it and get it next time I'm in the office.

Tetanus I've had but what's with the whooping cough? Really I'd prefer to just get the ones that are necessary to hold off pandemics.

What is necessary and what is corporate marketing based on peddling fear?

Whooping cough may be the next pandemic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pertussis

[Waitone]

Be careful of dismissing the claims of the anti-vaxers.  Stuff is bubbling just below the surface that will change things dramatically.  This comment from a guy who was vaccinated out the ying-yang.

[Ben]

The anti-vaxers may have a point about the number of vaccines a kid gets these days.  20-something vaccines by age 6 months, and the hep-B shot is given on day of birth.  I don't remember it being nearly that many when my kid was a baby; she's 24 now.

But it seems MMR is the one they are all worked up over, and that's not until the kid is at least a year old.

Holy crap! I had no idea it was that many vaccines that early! I'm not sympathetic to the anti-vaccine crowd, but that's a lot of shots.

I may not be remembering some, but when I was a kid, I got vaccines for measles, mumps, and smallpox. I caught chicken pox from some kid in the neighborhood. I don't recall getting a tetanus shot until I was maybe 10 or 11.

[Ron]

Be careful of dismissing the claims of the anti-vaxers.  Stuff is bubbling just below the surface that will change things dramatically.  This comment from a guy who was vaccinated out the ying-yang.

Over the last 7 years or so I've started taking a more proactive approach to my health. Diet, exercise and good sleeping habits etc.

I've had several health issues in the past where I was forced to realize that Dr's do a lot of guessing and often really can't help you other than alleviate symptoms.

While I accept them as an authority as compared to my limited knowledge they are a somewhat limited and fallible authority.

I'm not an anti vaxer but I'm not letting them insert any organisms into my blood stream without a little research and thought on my part.  

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

They don't get a separate needle for each shot.


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