We're a Nation of Laws, But...

[MicroBalrog]

Perhaps I do not imply by 'universal' what you think i do'.

[SADShooter]

Perhaps I do not imply by 'universal' what you think i do'.

Oblique allusions to the counter-argument do not really illuminate your point or advance the discussion.

[roo_ster]

Perhaps I do not imply by 'universal' what you think i do'.

And perhaps I can whistle "Dixie" out of my fourth point of contact.

Meanwhile, here in non-Humpty-Dumpty(1) Land, we do our best to stick with plain meaning and general understanding.


Note (1):

    "I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
    "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
    "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
    "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
    "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
    Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. "They've a temper, some of them—particularly verbs, they're the proudest—adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs—however, I can manage the whole lot! Impenetrability! That's what I say!"

[Hutch]

As a young man, recently discovered of the true principles of laissez faire capitalism and self determination.  I assumed that the appreciation for these principles were inherent in all people, and that the only reason that we didn't all live in rich, pluralistic societies was that far to many we're trapped in a polity that was misruled by bad leaders and their henchman.  I assumed that there burned a desire within the hearts of all people trapped in these unfortunate circumstances to breathe free, to respect the law and each other, to strive and earn and prosper.

I was full of *expletive deleted*it.

[MicroBalrog]

And perhaps I can whistle "Dixie" out of my fourth point of contact.

Meanwhile, here in non-Humpty-Dumpty(1) Land, we do our best to stick with plain meaning and general understanding.


Note (1):

A universal moral truth is one that is always true, regardless of one's cultural belonging.

Truth: Torturing babies is evil.

Even if some countries torture babies, that merely means that their culture is evil.

The fact that there exist cultures that believe baby-torture is okay doesn't mean it is.

[Pb]

MicroBalrog, the left wing promises illegal immigrants:

Free food
Free/cheap housing
Free phones
Free/cheap child care
Free healthcare
Free money

And all they have to do is sit on their butts and have illegitimate children... and vote for Democrats.

[MechAg94]

A universal moral truth is one that is always true, regardless of one's cultural belonging.

Truth: Torturing babies is evil.

Even if some countries torture babies, that merely means that their culture is evil.

The fact that there exist cultures that believe baby-torture is okay doesn't mean it is.

But in making that statement, you have to define "torture" and "babies".  That same issue was brought up with regard to circumcision.  I am sure you could find some wack job who thinks it was torture to allow the toddler to touch the hot pot of boiling water even after being told not to touch it.  Maybe find some hellicopter parent who defines their 12 year old hoodlum as a "baby".

We live in a legalistic era.  There can be no assumption of common sense or common decency.  Reasonable or rational thought certainly cannot be assumed.  I am playing devil's advocate, but that is needed when people talk about absolutes.

[MechAg94]

Back to the OP issue, I also heard Obama was speculating about raising taxes without a new law passing.  They are already working on screwing up the internet without any congressional approval.

[Ben]

Back to the OP issue, I also heard Obama was speculating about raising taxes without a new law passing.  They are already working on screwing up the internet without any congressional approval.

On corporate taxes, I believe. Because already having the highest corporate tax rate in the world just isn't good enough.

[AmbulanceDriver]

You know what???  They keep doing this shinola (both parties, btw) and pretty soon, the people who follow the laws because they're overall good, decent people who *want* to be law abiding are gonna look around, realize they're getting royally boned, and say, "F*** this, I'm not gonna keep getting hosed while everyone else gets away with breaking the law."

[AmbulanceDriver]

"We’re a nation of laws, but we’re also respecting the fact that we’re a nation of immigrants." —Obama

Yeah, well you know what?  "We're a nation of laws, but I don't feel like paying taxes anymore."
"We're a nation of laws, but I don't think I should have to follow ANY DAMN LAW I DON'T WANT TO!"   And I'll just point to the Teleprompter-in-Chief and say hey, he said it, not me....

[Boomhauer]

Yeah, well you know what?  "We're a nation of laws, but I don't feel like paying taxes anymore."
"We're a nation of laws, but I don't think I should have to follow ANY DAMN LAW I DON'T WANT TO!"   And I'll just point to the Teleprompter-in-Chief and say hey, he said it, not me....

You aren't a member of a protected class so that won't work for you.

[Ron]

We'll become more like Russia or 3rd world shitholes where there is a thriving black market in everyday/essential items.

[Scout26]

Venezuela/Argentina/Zimbabwe, here we come !!!!

[makattak]

You aren't a member of a protected class so that won't work for you.

Doesn't matter. Taxes and most other criminal systems work because most people follow them.

Massive disobedience would collapse the system, protected class or not.

[MicroBalrog]

Massive disobedience would collapse the system, protected class or not.

You say it like a bad thing.

[Pb]

I don't want the USA to collapse.   

[RocketMan]

I don't want the USA to collapse.  

It's going to happen, sooner or later.  Probably sooner.  I don't believe there will be any stopping it.

[RoadKingLarry]

It's going to happen, sooner or later.  Probably sooner.  I don't believe there will be any stopping it.

I've held that opinion for quite a while now.
The US is in a death spiral, there is no stopping it at this point.
It's a done deal, the only thing we don't know is how soon and how deep the crater will be.

[roo_ster]

I've held that opinion for quite a while now.
The US is in a death spiral, there is no stopping it at this point.
It's a done deal, the only thing we don't know is how soon and how deep the crater will be.

On the bright side we could break out in balkans like civl war in a great sorting and blood letting.  Brighter than some other options we have seen the last 100 years at least.

I suspect us.gov would as effective rooting out domestic opposition as they have been in iraq and astan.  With the added excitement of having fed.gov employees and their families living in the war zone.

[RoadKingLarry]

I suspect us.gov would as effective rooting out domestic opposition as they have been in iraq and astan.  With the added excitement of having fed.gov employees and their families living in the war zone.

For some reason I have the feeling that in such an eventuality, our benevolent dear leaders would have fewer qualms about collateral damage when making hellfire missile strikes on US Citizens Anti-government domestic terrorists than what we see in the middle east.

[erictank]

For some reason I have the feeling that in such an eventuality, our benevolent dear leaders would have fewer qualms about collateral damage when making hellfire missile strikes on US Citizens Anti-government domestic terrorists than what we see in the middle east.

OTOH, a substantial part (certainly not all) of the population WILL have qualms about supporting such acts here at home.

[TommyGunn]

For some reason I have the feeling that in such an eventuality, our benevolent dear leaders would have fewer qualms about collateral damage when making hellfire missile strikes on US Citizens Anti-government domestic terrorists than what we see in the middle east.

Well, the question is, how do the people who will actually be firing those missiles feel about it -- those guys who swore an allegiance to the Constitution and to protect from all enemies foreign and domestic?

[roo_ster]

Well, the question is, how do the people who will actually be firing those missiles feel about it -- those guys who swore an allegiance to the Constitution and to protect from all enemies foreign and domestic?

Irrelevant. 

Authoritarian regimes never lack for hired help when they are perceived as strong and/or on top.  Of those currently serving, some will toe the ruling class's line, some will not.  Replacements will be found for the latter after they have been purged.  Only way to prevent this is to show the regime as weak or impose personal costs on the hired help.

It is not like this sort of thing never happened before.  Expect the ruling class to increasingly rely on those ethnically alien to its enemies.  It is the way of multiethnic empires to use one alien group to slaughter the other in turn. 

[MicroBalrog]

I don't want the USA to collapse.   

If the modern political system of the US is immoral and unconstitutional, doesn't it deserve it though?