Author Topic: Using glyphosate near water (Read 6950 times)

Cliffh · « **on:** April 29, 2015, 07:26:23 PM »

I've got a lot of area on our property that's near water. There's a >hundred yard creek that crosses from the back fence to the road out front (then continues on under the road and onto the neighbors property), a large area (~50yd x 20yd) that's flooded (because of the neighbors dam - long story), a mid-sized pond (~75yd x 15yd) and a berm that parallels the roadside drainage ditch.

The vegetation in those areas grows - fast. Faster than I can cut with a string trimmer. Not to mention that a) it takes multiple days to cut those areas & I've got other things to do & b) I've killed 3 trimmers over the last few years trying to keep it all cut down.

From what I've read, one shouldn't use glyphosate near water. I can't find a reason why not, except for one paper that seemed to be biased against the use of glyphosate in any location.

There was something that had me go WTF does that mean???

FISH TOXICITY
96 hour LC50, Rainbow trout – 8.2 μg/L (technical)
96 hour LC50, Bluegill – 5.8 μg/L (technical)

So, in plain English, why should I not use it near water?

bedlamite · « **Reply #1 on:** April 29, 2015, 07:29:10 PM »

Simple answer: It doesn't take much to kill lots of fish.

Cliffh · « **Reply #2 on:** April 29, 2015, 08:55:02 PM »

Quote from: bedlamite on April 29, 2015, 07:29:10 PM

Simple answer: It doesn't take much to kill lots of fish.

Plain enough.

Damn.

Tuco · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2015, 08:59:51 PM »

Rodeo.
Glyphosphate fomulated and labeled for use near water.

MillCreek · « **Reply #4 on:** April 29, 2015, 09:35:54 PM »

Jeezy Pete, between 6-9 micrograms per liter to kill the fish? Now that is a low lethal concentration.

Cliffh · « **Reply #5 on:** April 29, 2015, 09:42:16 PM »

And of course it's twice what I paid for the other stuff. Still cheaper than another weed eater though.

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #6 on:** April 29, 2015, 10:52:29 PM »

I've sprayed the brush and weeds around my pond with glyphosate and have not seen and dead fish. obviously you wouldn't want to spray it into the water but if you're spraying brush/weeds next to the water it shouldn't be much of an issue.

GigaBuist · « **Reply #7 on:** April 29, 2015, 10:55:49 PM »

Quote from: MillCreek on April 29, 2015, 09:35:54 PM

Jeezy Pete, between 6-9 micrograms per liter to kill the fish? Now that is a low lethal concentration.

That's probably par for the course with most every other herbicide or insecticide. Fish are not keen on living in contaminated water. I don't think there's a single insecticide I use at work that lets me spray near water including the organics. BT, which we don't use, would be fine though.

charby · « **Reply #8 on:** April 30, 2015, 12:37:26 AM »

Why not just let the areas just grow?

KD5NRH · « **Reply #9 on:** April 30, 2015, 10:43:12 AM »

Weed burner?

charby · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2015, 10:20:25 PM »

Quote from: Cliffh on April 29, 2015, 07:26:23 PM

FISH TOXICITY
96 hour LC50, Rainbow trout – 8.2 μg/L (technical)
96 hour LC50, Bluegill – 5.8 μg/L (technical)

So, in plain English, why should I not use it near water?

So I have a professional pesticide applicators license...

96 hours LC50 means Lethal concentration to kill half the population of the listed fish.

The other is the amount of active ingredient at micrograms per liter. So not every much.

Also roundup/glyphosate is a non selective herbicide, you could end up killing every plant that makes contact with the spray, even the trees.

Cliffh · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2015, 11:26:37 PM »

Didn't mean to ignore y'all, work's been a bitch the last week or so.

Burning would work in a few small areas, I've got a propane weed burner I've used for weed control in those areas. Letting it grow isn't an idea we'd be happy with. Some of the vegetation can grow quite tall (10'+) and some of it's poison oak/ivy. It'd choke out the creek, the roadside would be over-run, etc.

I've used glyphosate around the property for over 8 years now, haven't killed anything I didn't want to - yet. I'm pretty careful about proper application. I've actually used it inside the drip-line of a few trees I really don't care about, the trees are still alive after 4 or 5 years.

charby · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2015, 11:40:04 PM »

Quote from: Cliffh on May 05, 2015, 11:26:37 PM

Didn't mean to ignore y'all, work's been a bitch the last week or so.

Burning would work in a few small areas, I've got a propane weed burner I've used for weed control in those areas. Letting it grow isn't an idea we'd be happy with. Some of the vegetation can grow quite tall (10'+) and some of it's poison oak/ivy. It'd choke out the creek, the roadside would be over-run, etc.

I've used glyphosate around the property for over 8 years now, haven't killed anything I didn't want to - yet. I'm pretty careful about proper application. I've actually used it inside the drip-line of a few trees I really don't care about, the trees are still alive after 4 or 5 years.

If you hit the leaves or trunk (on a thin barked tree) you can kill it. The beauty of roundup is if used according to label direction is breakdowns with contact with soil microbes. This is why you aren't killing the trees spraying within the drip line.

Cliffh · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2015, 11:47:07 PM »

Yep, which is why I didn't worry about using it there. Just noting that I had, and by being careful to not get it where it shouldn't, didn't kill the trees. "Damn, I'm good".

Personally, I quit using Roundup years ago. I can buy 2.5 gallons of concentrated glyphosate for about the same amount of pre-mix Roundup and it goes a lot farther.

charby · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2015, 11:59:09 PM »

Quote from: Cliffh on May 05, 2015, 11:47:07 PM

Personally, I quit using Roundup years ago. I can buy 2.5 gallons of concentrated glyphosate for about the same amount of pre-mix Roundup and it goes a lot farther.

Yep, Monsanto's patent ran out, so generic Roundup is out there. I live in Ag country, so all glyphosate is referred to as Roundup.

Cliffh · « **Reply #15 on:** May 06, 2015, 12:17:13 AM »

Love it when patents expire, "stuff" gets cheaper.

roo_ster · « **Reply #16 on:** May 06, 2015, 08:08:17 AM »

Loves me some glyphosphate in concentrate.

To kill a tree with glyphosphate/roundup you gotta really work at it. Sloppy overspray will not do it. Direct spray with pre-mixed from Home Depot will not do it. You gota use a high concentration, surfactant, and it helps to have lots of just exposed/cut live wood.

How much does high concentrate acetic acid cost? It kills pretty good and is not supposed to be persistent.

charby · « **Reply #17 on:** May 06, 2015, 08:25:29 AM »

Quote from: roo_ster on May 06, 2015, 08:08:17 AM

Loves me some glyphosphate in concentrate.

To kill a tree with glyphosphate/roundup you gotta really work at it. Sloppy overspray will not do it. Direct spray with pre-mixed from Home Depot will not do it. You gota use a high concentration, surfactant, and it helps to have lots of just exposed/cut live wood.

How much does high concentrate acetic acid cost? It kills pretty good and is not supposed to be persistent.

Yes, there is label directions for stump/tree killing with glyphosate and it does take sometime to see results since it needs to translocate in all the living tissues.

Cliffh · « **Reply #18 on:** May 06, 2015, 02:29:47 PM »

Quote

How much does high concentrate acetic acid cost?

A bit more than 4 times the glyphosate concentrate @ ~$87.00/2.5L, I've been paying about $65.00/2.5G for the glyphosate. http://www.grainger.com/product/LABCHEM-Acetic-Acid-5CVU1?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/5CVU3_AS01?$smthumb$

Of course, if it's quicker/better at the job it might be worth the extra cost. There are quite a few trash trees along the fence lines that it'd be nice to get rid of. Cutting them to a stump & digging out the stump is time consuming to say the least.

If there were only some way to get rid of stumps without grinding, digging or waiting months/years for them to rot... I've thought about drilling holes, busting up road flares & burning them. The commercial "stump removers" seem like they'd work, but every one I've looked at seem to simply accelerate the rotting process, with final results still taking months.

Nick1911 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 06, 2015, 02:39:23 PM »

Two things. Glacial Acetic Acid can be had cheaper then Grainger: https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=acetic

Second: Don't spray Glacial Acetic Acid. Acetic acid at those concentrations is a whole different animal, and should be treated as such. It's very nasty.

https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9922769

charby · « **Reply #20 on:** May 06, 2015, 02:45:21 PM »

Acetic acid appears to be a contact and not systemic herbicide.

http://www.weeds.iastate.edu/weednews/vinegar.htm

Quote

While acetic acid may burn off the tops of Canada thistle and other perennials, it will not control the root system responsible for regeneration of plants. Furthermore, acetic acid may not control larger weeds. A recent demonstration at the Nashua Research Farm suggested that acetic acid is not effective at controlling larger weeds.

Directed applications (keeping the vinegar away from the crop plant) are necessary to use acetic acid when crops are present in fields. Acetic acid concentrations from 10 to 20% controlled 80 to 100% of the smaller weeds, as reported in the USDA release. Typical concentrations of acetic acid in most commercially available vinegars are 5%, and were reported to provided variable control of small weeds.

zxcvbob · « **Reply #21 on:** May 06, 2015, 03:12:42 PM »

Do you really want to kill the grasses too, or just the broadleaf weeds and tree seedlings? You might want to look into 2,4-d (amine formulation, not ester, but the amine is cheaper)

KD5NRH · « **Reply #22 on:** May 06, 2015, 03:32:47 PM »

Quote from: charby on May 06, 2015, 02:45:21 PM

Acetic acid appears to be a contact and not systemic herbicide.

IOW, just a more expensive version of the propane weed burner.

charby · « **Reply #23 on:** May 06, 2015, 03:40:39 PM »

Quote from: zxcvbob on May 06, 2015, 03:12:42 PM

Do you really want to kill the grasses too, or just the broadleaf weeds and tree seedlings? You might want to look into 2,4-d (amine formulation, not ester, but the amine is cheaper)

2,4-D is really hard to use around broadleaf trees, so volatile.

zxcvbob · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2015, 03:46:15 PM »

Quote from: charby on May 06, 2015, 03:40:39 PM

2,4-D is really hard to use around broadleaf trees, so volatile.

I thought he wanted to kill the saplings and brush too.

News:

Author Topic: Using glyphosate near water (Read 6950 times)