help! my a.c. unit just quit

[Stand_watie]

It's going to get real hot in here quick.

The inside coils were frosted all over. I turned it off and they are melting now.

[cordex]

Similar situation here two years ago - we had the refrigerant refilled and haven't had a problem since. Repair guy said that there must be a slow leak and eventually we will need to replace the system as finding the leak probably wouldn't be cost effective in the long run.

[Stand_watie]

talked to one guy he said blower motor, freezing was effect not cause.

Don't know if he's right or not but the blower motor is not coming on. is a two year old Bryant.

[Brad Johnson]

If you're going to have a failure the blower motor is the place to have it. One of the easiest and least expensive fixes. I'm betting the motor is likely fine but the start capacitor has called it quits. Common problem and, again, relatively inexpensive if it's not covered under warranty.

Brad

[RoadKingLarry]

Sucks to be you today.

Good luck getting it up and running in a timely and cost effective manner.

[K Frame]

Will the blower motor come on when you put the system into recirculate?

I keep my blower going 24x7x365 as it keeps the house more even that way. I have a heat pump, but you should be able to turn the fan to recirculate or on.

If the blower motor won't kick in, it could be the motor, it could be a control board, etc.

[AJ Dual]

Anything that slows the airflow over the cold side coil will cause it to frost up.

A slow or blocked cold air return,  a clogged air filter. 

The coil could freeze up because the refrigerant is going low,  and is expanding too fast on the cold side because there's not enough back-pressure, but check the simple things first like cowed ducts and dirty filters.

[Stand_watie]

Will the blower motor come on when you put the system into recirculate?

I keep my blower going 24x7x365 as it keeps the house more even that way. I have a heat pump, but you should be able to turn the fan to recirculate or on.

If the blower motor won't kick in, it could be the motor, it could be a control board, etc.

Just talked to a second a.c guy and he had me put fan in "on" position, and it didn't come on, he is looking for parts or something he can cobble together for temporary. Is a mortex x13 two years old

[Stand_watie]

Got up, got dressed and ready to go to gun store looking for a scope for new toy....gun store is closed tomorrow and here I sit. At least I was able to get somebody on weekend. Got two window units going and a portable "Delonghi" brand room air conditioner out of the barn and set up (Brand new/3 years old I bought it just for this thing happening.)

Anybody know what the designed drain plan is for that thing? Manual didn't say anything about emptying a tray, said "end of season" drain plug for emptying. I've got it set up on books and the drain plug out over a cake pan.

[Firethorn]

Anybody know what the designed drain plan is for that thing? Manual didn't say anything about emptying a tray, said "end of season" drain plug for emptying. I've got it set up on books and the drain plug out over a cake pan.

Is it one of the ones where it has a hose that goes out a window?

From what I remember, most of those evaporate any condensate with the hot air and blow it out the vent.

[Stand_watie]

Is it one of the ones where it has a hose that goes out a window?

From what I remember, most of those evaporate any condensate with the hot air and blow it out the vent.

The air conditioner guys have come and replaced my blower with a temporary jerry-rig until the new one comes from mortex (parts under warranty) yay!, and while they were here they scratched their heads about the delonghi too. The kind they were used to had a (condensate) hose with the unit. Anyway they said it wouldn't hurt it to constantly catch the water in the cake pan. One put his hand in front of the hot air exhaust and said it had moisture in it, so maybe that is the design.

They were done by 3:30 and I made it to the gun store and got a couple mags for my kel tec and a scope.

[K Frame]

I know there are some of those portable units that do exhaust most of the moisture out the hose. If I'm correct, though, the single hose design means it's also exhausting some of the air from inside the house, which means it's not as efficient as one with a dual hose set up, but those have to have a catch pan for water.

[Firethorn]

I know there are some of those portable units that do exhaust most of the moisture out the hose. If I'm correct, though, the single hose design means it's also exhausting some of the air from inside the house, which means it's not as efficient as one with a dual hose set up, but those have to have a catch pan for water.

Here's how I'd set it up:  You have a radiator on top that sucks in room air and cools it, blowing out cool air.  Condensate from this drops down to some sort of shield that separates the top radiator from the bottom radiator.

The bottom radiator is the 'hot' one dispersing heat collected from the top.  It takes in room air and blows it out the hose.  The condensate from the top drips onto it.  It is hot as heck, of course, so the water evaporates, but the evaporation actually helps cool the unit more, which helps it be a touch more efficient.

There exist designs which are MUCH more efficient electricity wise, but where you'd need to dump water into them regularly.

They're a variation on a swamp cooler that takes in air, evaporates a 'lot' of water into it, then uses a heat transfer system to use that air to cool the hot air in the building.

[Stand_watie]

I know there are some of those portable units that do exhaust most of the moisture out the hose. If I'm correct, though, the single hose design means it's also exhausting some of the air from inside the house, which means it's not as efficient as one with a dual hose set up, but those have to have a catch pan for water.

Did I mention I bought this thing new 3 years ago and it has been in the barn since then waiting for just this emergency? Yes past self, you did good, but you should have figured it out, set it up and ran it too, to make sure you were ready when this happened.

[Firethorn]

Looking up random delonghi service manuals, I found this: "When the appliance is working as an air conditioner, it automatically reduces the excess humidity in the air present in the room. This is eliminated through the exhaust tube"

As a side note, I found a number that use water deliberately - save electricity and cool faster by keeping the gallon or so sized water tank filled.

from:
http://homeappliance.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/delonghi/delonghi_air_conditioner_product_list.html

[Stand_watie]

Looking up random delonghi service manuals, I found this: "When the appliance is working as an air conditioner, it automatically reduces the excess humidity in the air present in the room. This is eliminated through the exhaust tube" 

As a side note, I found a number that use water deliberately - save electricity and cool faster by keeping the gallon or so sized water tank filled.

from:
http://homeappliance.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/delonghi/delonghi_air_conditioner_product_list.html

I think condensate water was designed to be overflowed into the hot air discharge. Would be nice if user manual would print that big and bold enough for me and two a.c. guys to confirm by reading.

[Ron]

De-humidification is an important part of indoor air comfort. Also it takes more energy to cool humid air than dry air.

Seems like a poor design but it is better than nothing!

[Firethorn]

De-humidification is an important part of indoor air comfort. Also it takes more energy to cool humid air than dry air.

Seems like a poor design but it is better than nothing!

Well, that's because humid air does have more mass to it.  As for the 'poor design' it's limited by it's portability.  Remember, it's disposing of the condensed water in the hot air going out the tube that, if you've placed it like you're supposed to, leads to outside.

Efficiency wise, the absolute most efficient units are the 'ductless' wall mount AC systems.  They're permanently mounted in the room they service though.
After that you have traditional central air, which is cheaper to cool a whole building, install wise. 
Then you have window units, then finally the portables. Dual-hose is slightly more efficient than single hose, but much more expensive, and they're normally for temporary use, so the expense isn't normally worth it.

[K Frame]

"They're a variation on a swamp cooler that takes in air, evaporates a 'lot' of water into it, then uses a heat transfer system to use that air to cool the hot air in the building."

The heat transfer mechanism in a swamp cooler is the evaporation cycle.

Hot dry air hits the exchange medium, which causes flash evaporation of the water and drops the temperature of the air that comes out the other end. The output air is of higher humidity, but in areas where swamp coolers are usable, that's not such a bad thing. The efficiency and effectiveness of swamp coolers drops dramatically as the ambient humidity increases.



"It is hot as heck, of course, so the water evaporates, but the evaporation actually helps cool the unit more, which helps it be a touch more efficient."

That's how virtually all window air conditioners now work -- the water that is condensed on the interior coils is transferred to the exhaust side and then the exchange fan blows some of it onto the hot coils while the excess drips out, giving a small patch of lush green grass below the window.

[K Frame]

De-humidification is an important part of indoor air comfort. Also it takes more energy to cool humid air than dry air.

Seems like a poor design but it is better than nothing!

Dehumidification is an important part of indoor air comfort in SOME parts of the country. In areas where the ambient summer humidity levels are low to non-existent, like the Southwest, putting moisture into the air via a swamp cooler is a good thing.

Trying to use a swamp cooler in Washington, DC, though? Not a good idea to add even more humidity into air that's already saturated.

[Ron]

Remember, it's disposing of the condensed water in the hot air going out the tube that, if you've placed it like you're supposed to, leads to outside.

It appears according to Stand_watie that it does not have a condensate drain tube but that the water is being evaporated back into the air using heat from the discharge line and/or condenser coil.

That is a common design for small refrigeration units but as I mentioned seems to be a poor design for an A/C unit. Except maybe in very arid climates like the southwest where there is so little humidity that there is very little condensate to worry about.

[K Frame]

It appears according to Stand_watie that it does not have a condensate drain tube but that the water is being evaporated back into the air using heat from the discharge line and/or condenser coil.

That is a common design for small refrigeration units but as I mentioned seems to be a poor design for an A/C unit. Except maybe in very arid climates like the southwest where there is so little humidity that there is very little condensate to worry about.

That's exactly how it's working. It's not as efficient a design, but it's a workable one in most conditions, and it will become a more efficient means of getting rid of the moisture as the humidity level inside the house drops. It's also a matter of trading some convenience of not having to empty a bucket continually.

There was one (may still be on the market for all I know) that had an internal bucket with an automatic pump that would eject the water either out the window bracket or into a sink or tub. Apparently the ejector pump had a very high failure rate, and with no way to remove the bucket...

[Ron]

That's exactly how it's working. It's not as efficient a design, but it's a workable one in most conditions, and it will become a more efficient means of getting rid of the moisture as the humidity level inside the house drops. It's also a matter of trading some convenience of not having to empty a bucket continually.

There was one (may still be on the market for all I know) that had an internal bucket with an automatic pump that would eject the water either out the window bracket or into a sink or tub. Apparently the ejector pump had a very high failure rate, and with no way to remove the bucket...

Running that thing in Chicagoland on a day like today would probably result in a huge puddle under the unit by the end of the day 

 

[gunsmith]

OOPS

[Nick1911]

Well, that's because humid air does have more mass to it.

Well, humid air is less dense - mass being an absolute quantity.

This appears counter-intuitive to many people at first, but a cubic foot of dry air is heavier then a cubic foot of humid air.

Efficiency wise, the absolute most efficient units are the 'ductless' wall mount AC systems.  They're permanently mounted in the room they service though.
After that you have traditional central air, which is cheaper to cool a whole building, install wise. 
Then you have window units, then finally the portables. Dual-hose is slightly more efficient than single hose, but much more expensive, and they're normally for temporary use, so the expense isn't normally worth it.

Ehh, yes and no.  Really, the process gets more efficient as it gets closer to being reversible, which means lowering the temperature differentials between the evaporating temperature and condensing temperature.  Usually, for direct exchange coils, this means more coil surface area.

But yea, it all depends on the particulars of the system.  Many of the mini-splits are 16 SEER, but you can certainly buy a central system that will do 18 SEER, or a ground source central system that will do 20+ SEER.