University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted on Murder in Shooting

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And that would be?


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[Scout26]

You know the answer.

Howse about you answer this one:


How many hands does Officer Tensing have?

[Tallpine]

I'm curious to know what police policy/procedure/guideline specifies or condones reaching inside the vehicle of a suspect who appears to be about to flee 

Seems like "officer safety" would dictate never doing such a thing, or maybe it's just a good excuse to say "I was being dragged" and kill the driver 

They already had the guy's plate number.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

2

I think his defense is gonna hinge on did he believe he was in danger.  Key words " did he". Not so much whether anyone else believed he was. I think it will fly. Especially in light of the body cams that show his reaction and statement immediately post shooting along with what Kidd said. Still likely a bad shoot just not one they can get a conviction on.
We had an FBI agent just beat the rap on his third trial here based on reasonable doubt.

Tall pine? I have mixed feelings about letting the drunk unlicensed driver drive off once you get him stopped.
Do university cops have tasers? Mighta been a better first choice tool


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[Scout26]

2

Very Good.

Now where are they in the video?

[dogmush]

2

I think his defense is gonna hinge on did he believe he was in danger.  Key words " did he". Not so much whether anyone else believed he was. I think it will fly. Especially in light of the body cams that show his reaction and statement immediately post shooting along with what Kidd said. Still likely a bad shoot just not one they can get a conviction on.
We had an FBI agent just beat the rap on his third trial here based on reasonable doubt.

The defense is going to key on whether they can convince a jury that a "reasonable man" in the same situation would have thought he was in danger.  If the Officer is deemed  by the jury to be unreasonable, then what he actually thought is irrelevant.

In years past, LEO's would have been automatically presumed reasonable by most folks, and as such if the LEO says he thought he was in danger, then it was often accepted at face value.  For a variety of reasons, that perception of LEO's is changing in America, and it's very possibly this particular LEO won't get that benefit of the doubt.  In which case he's in trouble.  I also predict that do to the media frenzy, the circumstances, and the other high profile LEO shootings around the country that this guy isn't going to plead this down.  I see a jury trial here.

Testimony of the other two cops, how bad, and exactly where his uniform got messed up, what knocked that flashlight out of his belt, and the make up and preconceptions of the jury will all become very important over the next few months.

[dogmush]

Also:

Man.....I don't know.  I've watched that body cam like 5 times.  the Officer was going for the ignition key after the victim started the car, and then it gets all shaky.  at 1:57 (link in OP) the officer's left hand can be seen in the car, with his body below the level of the window, which would be consistent with being pulled (towards the front of the car) off your feet.  Also his flashlight shows signs of being dragged on the road.

That said, that gun came out and the shot went off FAST.  Like he was already going for the gun as soon as the car started.  Going for a gun at the same time as leaning in closer to the "threat" would be a hard sell to me.

Were I on that jury I would be very interested in the angle of the shot.  Generally downward or horizontal would make me think he pulled the trigger while standing next to the car.  Generally upward would lend credence to the  "I shot after the car yanked me off my feet" defense.


I support body cams for all officers, but this is a prime example of how even with video, folks will bring their own opinions to the watching.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Most folks would never register the flashlight or the other things. Unless they get a Hollywood shot that shows what happened it's tuff. I have a body cam or 2 their perspective is often lacking compared to what I know happened. Are they allowed to "adjust" the wide angle effect?
  The shot is indeed real fast and that's gonna be hard to explain unless it's like you said reach with left while drawing with right . I could not do that safely.

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[Tallpine]

Tall pine? I have mixed feelings about letting the drunk unlicensed driver drive off once you get him stopped.
Do university cops have tasers? Mighta been a better first choice tool

The cop states that he pulled him over because of a missing front license plate.  The known dangerous felon thing isn't valid because in that case the stop would have been handled totally different from the beginning.

My point is that reaching into a running car is just asking to get dragged.  What's the point of getting an officer seriously hurt or killed?

As a volunteer wild land firefighter, we have lots of "always do" and "never do" situations (one of which is we can't ride on the outside of trucks anymore).  I can't believe that police policy/procedures don't address this sort of thing.  Notice that in this case, killing the driver did nothing to stop the car that was supposedly "dragging" him - not that I have much sympathy for the deceased moron.


I'm still confused about the second "bang"    Was that the car crashing at the end of the street?  It sounded to me like the cop squeezed off another round into the pavement.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

The damage to the flashlight and clothing could be from the fall. He was not dragged. However, could he have lost his grip on the door, and when he did the force he was using enough to propel him on his arse. Yes. Still. No reason to employ deadly force.

[dogmush]

The damage to the flashlight and clothing could be from the fall. He was not dragged. However, could he have lost his grip on the door, and when he did the force he was using enough to propel him on his arse. Yes. Still. No reason to employ deadly force.

I can't say that for sure from the video's I've seen.  Perhaps you can.

That's why we have juries.

[Tallpine]

If I were to grab a hold of a moving or about to move car and got dragged, it would be my own damn fault - don't you think

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I can't say that for sure from the video's I've seen.  Perhaps you can.

That's why we have juries.

Exactly. I am glad this one is going through the court. In the past, popo would investigate popo. They woukd have heard the witness officers story (lie) and blessed this a good shoot. This case is an example of what I want to happen in LE contact with citizens, where the actions of LE suspected of would be enough to arrest and try a non badge wearing citizen.  He was arrested, peep walked in front of the court and will have his day in front of the jury.

Several things do not add up on this. Like the other cops changing their tune under oath and after the media exposure. And even wearing body cams, lies were being made up and stories jiving with each other before hand.

A jury will hear this. I might agree or disagree with the result. But at least it's going through the system, as things like this should have been doing all along.

[dogmush]

A jury will hear this. I might agree or disagree with the result. But at least it's going through the system, as things like this should have been doing all along.

Yep.  100% agree there.

I'm not ready to bless this as a good shoot either.  I just know that I don't know from what I've seen so far.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Yep.  100% agree there.

I'm not ready to bless this as a good shoot either.  I just know that I don't know from what I've seen so far.

Unless there is another angle, showing him dragged. I don't see this as s good shoot. Not even close. Looks like a rookie that does not know what he is doing, no business wearing a badge, screwed up and has help in trying to cover it up.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

He was a relative rookie. He's awful good at cover up if he was scamming. Most folks need more than a couple seconds to put a lie together

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[Tallpine]

Isn't there also dash cam footage 

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

He was a relative rookie. He's awful good at cover up if he was scamming. Most folks need more than a couple seconds to put a lie together

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Not if you have help and not if it has been drilled into your head that you will be taken care of above all else. For some, spinning a tale out of ones arse comes easier than breathing.

[Scout26]

Do university cops have tasers? Mighta been a better first choice tool

And there's the answer to the question of "Was the use of lethal force justified?"


Just consider where the officer is standing when he fires the fatal shot.  Obviously his right (shooting) hand is free and he's not being dragged.   Since he shoots through the open window, his left hand is not impeded, otherwise he would have had to shoot Dubois through the rear side window.

Next, show me where Dubois was grabbing him.  Dubois has one hand on the steering wheel and the other on the gear shifter.  He's not impeding nor holding Tensing.

And finally, Dubois was stopped for not having a front license plate.   It was in the glove compartment.   After that, the stop became a fishing expedition.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

To the best of my knowledge no one claimed he was crabbed. I believe it was " I got tangled in the car"

The visible bottle of gin and no license matter.


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[Scout26]

Bottle of gin was full, so there's no PC there.  Also if you go frame by frame Tensing Left hand is trying to (but not quite able to) grab the seatbelt.


Again, there is no reason to use deadly force here.   

[Tallpine]

To the best of my knowledge no one claimed he was crabbed. I believe it was " I got tangled in the car"

The visible bottle of gin and no license matter.

He got himself tangled in the car 

Please explain to me how shooting the driver in the head and having the car go screaming down a residential street with a dead foot on the gas pedal contributes to public safety   Even after the car crashed and got high centered, the engine was still screaming until the cop reached in and shut it off.  What if there had been kids playing in the street, sidewalk, or yard where the dead drivered car crashed? 

Is an outcome like this really not expected? 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I think he expected to take keys and cuff and stuff him.


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[Tallpine]

I think he expected to take keys and cuff and stuff him.

Welcome to the real world 


BTW, around here they can look up your license info via your name and DOB.  Not too uncommon for country folk to not carry their wallet everywhere.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Welcome to the real world 


BTW, around here they can look up your license info via your name and DOB.  Not too uncommon for country folk to not carry their wallet everywhere.

Back in the day they would look in the car " oh it's you again"


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