Author Topic: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say  (Read 33166 times)

brimic

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2015, 12:07:01 AM »
Anyone notice the part where he's got more customers than ever coming in?  Yeah, silly move alright.

And did you notice the part where he's still going broke?  That doesn't fit your world view, so I suppose you missed it.
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De Selby

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2015, 12:08:45 AM »
And did you notice he's still going broke?  That doesn't fit your world view, so I suppose you missed that part.

Where'd it say he was going broke?  The lawsuit appears to be about sibling rivalry
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De Selby

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2015, 12:41:01 AM »
I think that's why Republicans only give lip-service to being tough on border control and avoid doing anything effective to keep illegals out.  Democrat love illegals for the voter fraud, Republicans love illegals because they can exploit them to keep wages depressed.

Not all jobs are worth $35 an hour.  If you pay the uneducated and unskilled workers too much, you will demotivate the skilled workers and they will go somewhere else.  But there's an example of this in the Bible; Matthew chapter 20.  Jesus sides with the overly-generous employer who paid everyone what they needed whether they earned it or not, so I would be careful criticizing Mr Price too much.

I agree with your view on immigration - the availability of low wage labor is definitely part of it.

We rely on the free market to provide people who work with a living.  Here's a guy saying that in his business's view, anyone who works full time for him gets a decent amount of financial stability in trade.  This appears to be controversial only because some folk think full time workers ought to sometimes be really poor.  As if it's moral - do work that most conservatives think isn't worth money, and you aren't entitled to anything - even if an employer freely chooses to pay.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Ron

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2015, 08:07:43 AM »
I think folks are objecting to the wisdom of wages being set by an egalitarian impulse vs a meritocracy.

Eventually the market will adjust to frustrate the egalitarian impulse and the wage gap will reappear.

It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out.
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RevDisk

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2015, 10:00:14 AM »

Free market. I sincerely hope the guy's strategy pays off. Wage stagnation is a legitimate issue (usually handwaved away by "but you can buy a faster iPhone or PC") and will continue to be an issue.

I think he went overboard, but I guarantee he'll be getting better employees in the long run. Most business want exceptional to above-average performance/employees for average or below-average wages.
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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2015, 10:07:47 AM »
We rely on the free market to provide people who work with a living.  Here's a guy saying that in his business's view, anyone who works full time for him gets a decent amount of financial stability in trade.  This appears to be controversial only because some folk think full time workers ought to sometimes be really poor.  As if it's moral - do work that most conservatives think isn't worth money, and you aren't entitled to anything - even if an employer freely chooses to pay.

You're a successful attorney. Do you pay your admin assistant the same salary, or more, than you make? Maybe you do, and hey, good for you. But I believe you should receive more compensation, because you worked harder to get where you are, and have skills, that an office assistant does not have.

Absolutely no one here has said full time workers should be poor. However, what this guy is doing only helps if it's a small sample set of a population. If every worker in Seattle made a minimum of $70K, how long before housing and other costs go up (even further) proportionally? Seattle and Silicon Valley are perfect examples of what happens to living expenses when a large population of high income earners shows up.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2015, 10:15:38 AM »
As if it's moral - do work that most conservatives think isn't worth money, and you aren't entitled to anything - even if an employer freely chooses to pay.

Morally, some people shouldn't be paid regardless of what they do.  This would prevent them from getting their hands on things like a computer and internet service.

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2015, 10:39:05 AM »
Where'd it say he was going broke?  The lawsuit appears to be about sibling rivalry

The man has massively cut his own $1m salary, rented out his house, and taken to living in a cheap apartment in order to free up cash to pay his employees.  Current profits are being diverted to overhead to pay the higher salaries.
I'd call that going broke.
At the very least, his move is causing his company serious cash flow problems.  That often leads to business failure.
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charby

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2015, 10:56:50 AM »
Free market. I sincerely hope the guy's strategy pays off. Wage stagnation is a legitimate issue (usually handwaved away by "but you can buy a faster iPhone or PC") and will continue to be an issue.

I think he went overboard, but I guarantee he'll be getting better employees in the long run. Most business want exceptional to above-average performance/employees for average or below-average wages.

I'm thinking the same things you are. Wage stagnation has been horrible where I live.
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Tallpine

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2015, 11:08:30 AM »
I'm thinking the same things you are. Wage stagnation has been horrible where I live.

I oppose any government tinkering with the economy, but I agree that the minimum wage "should" be about $15 now, if it were to match the buying power of (for instance) 1972.

Basically, what has happened is that it takes two incomes to match one income of forty years ago.

Businesses in Billings are screaming and crying because that can't hire enough people at even a dollar or two over legal minimum.  I think maybe that should say something to them  ;)
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KD5NRH

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2015, 11:26:36 AM »
I think he went overboard, but I guarantee he'll be getting better employees in the long run.

I doubt it; sure, he's going to retain the best when he gets them, but he doesn't sound like the type who will cull the herd effectively to get the low end out and make room for more good ones.

TommyGunn

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2015, 12:10:10 PM »
....We rely on the free market to provide people who work with a living.  Here's a guy saying that in his business's view, anyone who works full time for him gets a decent amount of financial stability in trade.  This appears to be controversial only because some folk think full time workers ought to sometimes be really poor.  As if it's moral - do work that most conservatives think isn't worth money, and you aren't entitled to anything - even if an employer freely chooses to pay.

 :facepalm:
Look, I will agree with some earlier posters on one thing:  wage stagnation is a real problem.  THANK WASHINGTON D.C. for the policies that drive this stagnation.
People "usually" get paid what their job is worth.  Running a major corporation is worth more than work as a janitor that cleans out that corporation's ash trays.  It's also worth more than flipping burgers at Jack's.   
And if one somehow did pay the janitor the same magnificent compensation the CEO got ... what would the CEO think -- eventually?   

In a way people in the workforce today have it very well.  I've always been a fan of classic lever-action Winchesters, and in researching the company's history I found out something about how average workers lived back in the mid nineteenth century.  They worked from dawn to dusk, everyday. Oh wait, they got Sunday mornings off, for church.  Can't forget that.  Maybe a fifty cents a day or a dollar if they were really good. 
And kids often worked too.
Abraham Lincoln's father hired him out to local farmers for work, for which he was paid 25 cents a day and then when he was paid, his father confiscated the money.  This was legal at the time, it would probably be illegal today to force young Lincoln to work like that.  But it did give Lincoln a lesson in life which caused him to despise slavery....and we know how THAT went in history ...
We have it pretty good today ....40 hour work weeks standard, OSHA standards, all sorts of laws about equality in hiring and treatment of workers that even good ol' Abe Lincoln wouldn't have thought of.

But what will never work out well is when .gov (or whatever other putatively benevolent force) starts going all Fascist on us and forcing burger flippers to get paid what CEOs get.
And that doesn't mean we "evil" conservatives think burger flippers should be poor.
Burger flipping is a good job for high school kids during their summer vacations.  Maybe they get a lot of good work experience, a good edjumakashun, and wind up, thirty years down the road, a CEO.
As far as wage stagnation...yes that is a real problem, but don't expect any hope and change from our current white house resident.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2015, 12:25:46 PM »
And hes,already driven away his folks

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charby

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2015, 01:38:26 PM »
I oppose any government tinkering with the economy, but I agree that the minimum wage "should" be about $15 now, if it were to match the buying power of (for instance) 1972.

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70yearsofpricechange.html

I've only been on this earth 41 years but I agree with you. I think many of our common goods are higher priced then they should be with current wages.

About the only government action I could see is that "contract parachute packages" are illegal and "deferred compensation" should be taxed as income above a certain annual amount, maybe like $25k annually.
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Tallpine

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2015, 01:50:12 PM »
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70yearsofpricechange.html

I've only been on this earth 41 years but I agree with you. I think many of our common goods are higher priced then they should be with current wages.

About the only government action I could see is that "contract parachute packages" are illegal and "deferred compensation" should be taxed as income above a certain annual amount, maybe like $25k annually.

In 1973 I bought a brand new pickup while working an entry level job.  It wasn't top of the line, but it wasn't base either: 4x4 3/4 ton.  I don't think you could do the same today.

What are these "taxes" that you speak of that "should" exist ???  Kill the IRS and the minimum wage  [ar15]
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makattak

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2015, 01:57:22 PM »
In 1973 I bought a brand new pickup while working an entry level job.  It wasn't top of the line, but it wasn't base either: 4x4 3/4 ton.  I don't think you could do the same today.

What are these "taxes" that you speak of that "should" exist ???  Kill the IRS and the minimum wage  [ar15]

There's a reason everything costs more, but especially vehicles.

1973 new pickup: Required to have seat belts installed.

2016 new pickup: http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/

And, in 2 years, they will require back-up cameras as well.

You want to know why prices are so high? The government requires it.
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Firethorn

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2015, 02:02:11 PM »
Look, I will agree with some earlier posters on one thing:  wage stagnation is a real problem.  THANK WASHINGTON D.C. for the policies that drive this stagnation.

Correct.  A LOT of the problems with our current labor market can be traced back to them.  By the same token, they're also the (spit!) solution.  Mostly by getting out of the way.

Note:  We were in something of a hard spot though.  Our main other choice was to go extremely protectionist, because short of that China's industrialization was always going to be a major spot of wage depreciation.

Good news though, they've caught up enough that they're no longer dragging us down(as much!).  As they continue to advance from now on they'll be putting less and less pressure on depressing our wages(by producing goods cheaper than we can), so they should start rising again.  Manufacturers are already 'insourcing' more and more frequently, bringing manufacturing back to the USA.

Quote
People "usually" get paid what their job is worth.

Right now it's more that people are paid, not what their job is worth, but a tiny fraction of it because businesses pay what they can get workers for, so long as the worker is worth more than their pay.

Quote
Running a major corporation is worth more than work as a janitor that cleans out that corporation's ash trays.  It's also worth more than flipping burgers at Jack's.

True, and I have no problems with paying executives more, indeed, even most liberals don't have a problem with this.  This guy is considered extreme even by them.

Where the problem with CEO pay comes in is when a business falls into what I'll call the 'star athlete' mindset.

Imagine that you're a manager for a sports team.  Win the season and prestige, money, and all will flow into your pockets.  Don't win, and well, you know.  But there's a limited pool of players, and if player A is the best at the game(ever!) and you don't get him, he's going directly to one of your competitors.  The result is a bidding war for player A's services, and they often get into a bidding war and lose perspective that Player A, as awesome as he is, might not actually be 'worth' that much money.  He could end up hurt in the first game, not live up to his promise, etc...

CEOs today, at least the excessively paid ones, often sell themselves like the sports player - and they get paid millions for often what's often NOT millions towards the bottom line of the company.

Executives like Steve Jobs have their place, they do exist, but they're a lot rarer on the ground and harder to spot than the athletes.  You can often get a CEO that's more competent, more solid, at an OOM less pay & benefits.

Quote
In a way people in the workforce today have it very well. 

I think that most are viewing the post-WWII period as the 'high point', not pre-WWII labor standards.

It indicates nothing of the kind. No, people do not deserve financial stability. They do deserve the opportunity to create such stability for themselves through skill development and work.

Then they need to be given the opportunity for said skill development, which businesses are less willing to provide than ever, preferring to moan about not being able to do things like find welders with 5 years of experience for within pennies of minimum wage.  By the same token, you also need the jobs to be in place for them to work.

It used to be that joining the military was a good way for an uneducated person to earn a living, learn a trade, etc...  We talk on this board how there's too many people being college educated today, and not enough skilled people.

Given all the above, I have a few suggestions:
1.  People being stuck with part time work because then the employer doesn't have to provide heatlhcare is a problem, mostly imposed by the government.  I suggest we get rid of the healthcare requirements and such, so that rather than being stuck at 20-25 hours/week at minimum wage, they can at least get 40.  That's more efficient for the worker.  If that's not possible, put a stipulation in that if you don't provide 'full time' benefits, the minimum wage is now $2.80 or so higher per hour. (based off of individual coverage averaging $5615 a year)
2.  Start up some sort of federal program that employs people, and teaches them a trade in exchange for 2-6 years of work.  Sure, that means that federal buildings and such will eventually have been put together and maintained mostly by workers who are still learning, but that's an acceptable trade, I think.
3.  Restructure aid programs, wherever possible, to ensure that somebody working is better off than not working.  A person working 20 hours/week, even(especially!) at minimum wage, should still see noticeable improvements in their life from such work, rather than the present problem of them often being worse of, financially speaking.

You want to know why prices are so high? The government requires it.

Despite all the new requirements, the amount of labor required in a new pickup is actually less than the '73 one.

As for the backing camera, well, one of my coworkers lost their 3 year old daughter to a backing accident. :(

And the other safety features also generally save money through reduced injury - what you'd save on a '73 vehicle's manufacturing price you'd more than end up paying in increased insurance costs. 

dogmush

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2015, 02:14:41 PM »
In 1973 I bought a brand new pickup while working an entry level job.  It wasn't top of the line, but it wasn't base either: 4x4 3/4 ton.  I don't think you could do the same today.

I actually agree about wage stagnation. It's an issue.  Part of it is you are required to buy more expensive things by unseen .gov mandates in all kinds of stuff, not just cars.

But, it's raining here, so let's have some fun.

Google says Average Entry Level salary in the US is $43,000.  It also says that a single, filing alone federal tax* on that is "$4,481.25 + 25% of the amount over $32,550".  So let's round that to $7000 of the top.  That means +/- $3000/month take home.

MSRP (and who pays that?) for a 2016 F-250 is $32,385.  Scrape together a grand down payment, 7% sales tax and dead center of my credit union's intrest rate nets you $599.95/mo for your truck.  Tight, but doable.**

And as was pointed out, you are getting a LOT more stuff on that truck then even a middle of the road 1971 model got you.  So, it might not be the best idea, but I think it's not as far out as you imagine. 

*I'm not even looking up state tax rates.  Move to FL or AK.
**The trucks in the trailer park I pass on the way to work would imply the above scenario is quite a bit more than "doable".  It seems popular to park a $50,000 truck outside a $20,000 trailer.

Tallpine

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2015, 02:20:58 PM »
Quote
Despite all the new requirements, the amount of labor required in a new pickup is actually less than the '73 one.
Robots and automation

As for the backing camera, well, one of my coworkers lost their 3 year old daughter to a backing accident. Sad
So then ... billions for an unnecessary device forced down everyone's throat?

And the other safety features also generally save money through reduced injury - what you'd save on a '73 vehicle's manufacturing price you'd more than end up paying in increased insurance costs.  

Funny, I thought that health and auto insurance was a lot more expensive now than in 1973  ???


Between taxes, mandates, and inflation from deficit spending, the government is steadily destroying our standard of living and then trying to blame it on the "filthy capitalists"  :mad:
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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2015, 02:28:01 PM »
**The trucks in the trailer park I pass on the way to work would imply the above scenario is quite a bit more than "doable".  It seems popular to park a $50,000 truck outside a $20,000 trailer.

Discussion of which could be a thread in itself. There are a lot of people that think "income inequality" is the fact that they can't keep up with the Joneses.  No one is entitled to that $50K truck, nor the $5K of rims on the $2K piece of crap rice burner. People are poor when they have a tough time paying the rent, or putting food on the table, or buying the kids new shoes all while not having any luxury items. "Income inequality" is not defined by not being able to afford a Mercedes, cable TV, or a smart phone.

There is an entire segment of "poor" in the US that would find themselves living paycheck to paycheck whether they were making $20K/yr or $200K/yr.
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Tallpine

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2015, 02:32:04 PM »
I actually agree about wage stagnation. It's an issue.  Part of it is you are required to buy more expensive things by unseen .gov mandates in all kinds of stuff, not just cars.

But, it's raining here, so let's have some fun.

Google says Average Entry Level salary in the US is $43,000.  It also says that a single, filing alone federal tax* on that is "$4,481.25 + 25% of the amount over $32,550".  So let's round that to $7000 of the top.  That means +/- $3000/month take home.

MSRP (and who pays that?) for a 2016 F-250 is $32,385.  Scrape together a grand down payment, 7% sales tax and dead center of my credit union's intrest rate nets you $599.95/mo for your truck.  Tight, but doable.**

And as was pointed out, you are getting a LOT more stuff on that truck then even a middle of the road 1971 model got you.  So, it might not be the best idea, but I think it's not as far out as you imagine. 

*I'm not even looking up state tax rates.  Move to FL or AK.
**The trucks in the trailer park I pass on the way to work would imply the above scenario is quite a bit more than "doable".  It seems popular to park a $50,000 truck outside a $20,000 trailer.

Where the hell does that come from ???  That's over $20/hr and last I knew minimum was about $8 so annual would be about $16K.

I can't remember exactly what I was making in 1972-1973 ... maybe $2.20 an hour (~$4400/yr)  =|  I went out and bought a pickup that listed for something like $4500, minus dealer discount and whatever I got in trade for my old car.  So the new pickup was roughly my annual income at that time.

I don't think you get a four wheel drive F-250 for $32K.  Anyway, that's twice what minimum wage would make per year.
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charby

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2015, 02:38:10 PM »
MSRP (and who pays that?) for a 2016 F-250 is $32,385.  Scrape together a grand down payment, 7% sales tax and dead center of my credit union's intrest rate nets you $599.95/mo for your truck.  Tight, but doable.**


I made $43k 7 years ago, take home pay is more like $2300

Plus $500 or more rent/mortgage, $100-200/month for full coverage vehicle insurance on the F-150, $250 groceries, $100 clothing, etc.  There isn't much left.
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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2015, 02:40:33 PM »
Where the hell does that come from ???  That's over $20/hr and last I knew minimum was about $8 so annual would be about $16K.

I can't remember exactly what I was making in 1972-1973 ... maybe $2.20 an hour (~$4400/yr)  =|  I went out and bought a pickup that listed for something like $4500, minus dealer discount and whatever I got in trade for my old car.  So the new pickup was roughly my annual income at that time.

I don't think you get a four wheel drive F-250 for $32K.  Anyway, that's twice what minimum wage would make per year.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=average+entry+level+wage

[shrug] Dunno where they got it.  I wasn't doing a deep anylasis on it, I was just curious how it worked out.

4x4 adds $2,795 to the price.  So ~35k, still actually less then the "average" entry level annual income.

dogmush

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Re: Idiot that decided to pay all employees 70K a year? Reality has its say
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2015, 02:42:23 PM »
I made $43k 7 years ago, take home pay is more like $2300

Plus $500 or more rent/mortgage, $100-200/month for full coverage vehicle insurance on the F-150, $250 groceries, $100 clothing, etc.  There isn't much left.

I didn't say it'd be a good idea, just possible.  See the trailer park foot note.  I'm going to bet if you have a brand new pickup in your first year at work, not a lot is going into your 401k.