Intersting Opinion on the Push for $15 Minumim Wage

[charby]

http://magazine.good.is/articles/organize-fight-win

I do agree with the Paramedic that there are lot of bones and scraps tossed down from the table that are put there for people to fight over to keep them from fighting/seeing the real issues.

I also think if the wage gap between the upper management types and the workers isn't closed, we may see the day where it takes a college education or working skills just to be working poor.

[RoadKingLarry]

Pretty much already there.

[Ron]

While I understand the economic fallacy behind the minimum wage I have a hard time begrudging folks getting a bigger slice of the pie.

I've believed the allocation of labor dollars has been out of wack for awhile myself.

Part of the problem is the influx of unskilled legal/illegal immigrants who are used to living on scraps. They drive wages at the bottom even lower.

[zxcvbob]

I resent CEO's acting like they were the founders, and taking enormous salaries and bonuses for mismanaging the company... while squeezing the workers.  And the BOD's enable it because they're CEO's too.  Shareholders have almost no say in the matter.

A multinational corporation that I'm very familiar with would be better off with a vacancy in the CEO position (and at least a third of the other executives too)  Plow that money back into R&D and workers.

[makattak]

http://magazine.good.is/articles/organize-fight-win

I do agree with the Paramedic that there are lot of bones and scraps tossed down from the table that are put there for people to fight over to keep them from fighting/seeing the real issues.

I also think if the wage gap between the upper management types and the workers isn't closed, we may see the day where it takes a college education or working skills just to be working poor.

Spouting all kinds of crap numbers. The CEO gets 400 times what they get?

Let's see, if they are getting $7.25 an hour, that would mean the CEO gets $6.25M per year. (Of course, that's if he only works a 40 hour week. How many CEOs do that?)

According to Equilar (http://www.equilar.com/publications/49.5-2-100-largest-company-CEOs-2015.html) there are 94 CEOs getting that much in total compensation. (AFL-CIO seems to have more, but I'll go with the more neutral one)

I'll double it and double it again. Oh heck one more time and add it again to say 1000 people are making 400 times the minimum wage (IF they only work a 40 hour week)

That's clearly a load of crap to say any one person's CEO is so far above the minimum. MOST are making well below even $1M, let alone the $6M his number requires.

What's ACTUALLY stupid is workers clamoring for the government to save them when government is the problem. Instead of engaging in class warfare like this idiot paramedic suggests, they ought to be trying to make the government smaller, which will encourage the creation of more businesses, which will create more competition for jobs which will raise wages.

But, of course, that's fighting to make the "cake" bigger instead of screaming about someone else having a bigger piece. All this idiot did was change whose piece he's screaming about instead of why the government keeps the cake so small.

[brimic]

Let's see, if they are getting $7.25 an hour, that would mean the CEO gets $6.25M per year. (Of course, that's if he only works a 40 hour week. How many CEOs do that?)

Yep, I'm tired of that old rediculous argument as well.

The CEO of the corp I work for makes waaayyyy over that figure, then again he doesn't make 400x as much as the average worker... the average worker makes A LOT more than $7.25/hr. Its hard to begrudge a leader's large salary when you have a stable, good paying job.

[brimic]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/24/seattle-sees-unexpected-fallout-from-15-per-hour-min-wage/

LOeffingL

[vaskidmark]

While I understand the economic fallacy behind the minimum wage I have a hard time begrudging folks getting a bigger slice of the pie.

I've believed the allocation of labor dollars has been out of wack for awhile myself.

Part of the problem is the influx of unskilled legal/illegal immigrants who are used to living on scraps. They drive wages at the bottom even lower.

No, part of the problem is that when everybody is getting a bigger slice of the pie the price for that slice increases.  Pay burger flippers $15/hr and that $3.25 burger is going to cost you $4.07 or better.  It's an immoral cycle that nobody has figured out how to end.  The Commies came the closest, but their method involved outright killing of a lot of people and then slowly starving a lot more.  If you are not in the Politburo you may not want to take your chances with that.

How much should a CEO really cost?  Factor out the incentives to get him to come to your company as opposed to the other guy's company.  Factor out the artificial social climbing/status maintaining BS.  (Anybody remember the cost analysis done on a "housewife" back when they stayed at home?  Most folks (men, the wage-earners) made less that what it was calculated the housewife should be paid.   And no, "social escort (no hanky-panky) was nowhere near the highest cost center.)

You tell me how to eliminate greed and freeze prices at today's level and I'll show you how to level the paying [sic] field.

stay safe.

[SADShooter]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/24/seattle-sees-unexpected-fallout-from-15-per-hour-min-wage/

LOeffingL

So, in broad strokes, business costs rise and are passed on to consumers, some employees lose jobs as businesses close and tax revenue is lost, while others see gross income remain the same, and taxpayer subsidized social welfare costs remain the same.

Golly, who saw that coming.

[Ben]

No, part of the problem is that when everybody is getting a bigger slice of the pie the price for that slice increases.  Pay burger flippers $15/hr and that $3.25 burger is going to cost you $4.07 or better.  It's an immoral cycle that nobody has figured out how to end.  

Technology may be helping to end it. McDonalds, and other fast food places have been investing in the same self-serve kiosks that you see at the grocery store and Home Depot.

Whether you consider it good or bad, we have the technology to replace some unskilled labor. $15/hr seems to be a profit/loss tipping point for many service businesses to invest in that technology. From what I have seen in the places I shop, consumers prefer the self-service. There are often lines at the kiosks, even when a checker has none and is trying to call people over.

"Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind.

[makattak]

Technology may be helping to end it. McDonalds, and other fast food places have been investing in the same self-serve kiosks that you see at the grocery store and Home Depot.

Whether you consider it good or bad, we have the technology to replace some unskilled labor. $15/hr seems to be a profit/loss tipping point for many service businesses to invest in that technology. From what I have seen in the places I shop, consumers prefer the self-service. There are often lines at the kiosks, even when a checker has none and is trying to call people over.

"Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind.

I like the ordering screens at Sheetz- they are exactly that technology, and even have options for customization. Prevents issues with incompetent cashiers like I had to deal with yesterday.

<only slightly related rant> how is it an employee can't figure out how to clear a mistake they made when I can do it myself at the grocery store?

[RoadKingLarry]

I resent CEO's acting like they were the founders, and taking enormous salaries and bonuses for mismanaging the company... while squeezing the workers.  And the BOD's enable it because they're CEO's too.  Shareholders have almost no say in the matter.

A multinational corporation that I'm very familiar with would be better off with a vacancy in the CEO position (and at least a third of the other executives too)  Plow that money back into R&D and workers.

Yeah, the CEO of this company did real well with this deal. Still the CEO, though his bonus for that year wasn't quite as high as usual.

http://www.wired.com/2011/12/att-tmobile-merger-ends/

[charby]

Time for more teeth mashing.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-more-does-ceo-may-201959661.html

[brimic]

The question shouldn't be "why do CEOs make so much more than the entry level employee" but should be "Why don't more people aspire to be CEOs?"

Oh that's right, it's the whole putting extra hours in to work you way up a company thing, putting in 100+ hour weeks to start up your own company,  or getting good grades in school to get into an ivy league college thing...
There's plenty of reasons why burger flippers and taco assembly technicians shouldn't make as much as the CEO, but the reasons are too many to list here.

If you made a Venn diagram of people who want a higher minimum wage in one circle, and people who want all of their needs taken care of by government (in essence, by other people) in the other, your diagram would have an almost perfect overlap.

[zxcvbob]

The question shouldn't be "why do CEOs make so much more than the entry level employee" but should be "Why don't more people aspire to be CEOs?"

Oh that's right, it's the whole putting extra hours in to work you way up a company thing, putting in 100+ hour weeks to start up your own company,  or getting good grades in school to get into an ivy league college thing...
There's plenty of reasons why burger flippers and taco assembly technicians shouldn't make as much as the CEO, but the reasons are too many to list here.

If you made a Venn diagram of people who want a higher minimum wage in one circle, and people who want all of their needs taken care of by government (in essence, by other people) in the other, your diagram would have an almost perfect overlap.

I don't begrudge the founders of a company paying themselves whatever they can get.  (good job, Bill Gates) They should be rewarded for the risk they took.   Most CEO's did not start-up the company, they were hired to oversee running it years after it was already successful.

[Tallpine]

The question shouldn't be "why do CEOs make so much more than the entry level employee" but should be "Why don't more people aspire to be CEOs?"

...

Perhaps because some of us would rather actually produce something instead of just being enough of an A-hole to work up into middle or higher management. 

My observation is that most companies succeed in spite of their (mis)management rather than because of it 

[charby]

The question shouldn't be "why do CEOs make so much more than the entry level employee" but should be "Why don't more people aspire to be CEOs?"

Oh that's right, it's the whole putting extra hours in to work you way up a company thing, putting in 100+ hour weeks to start up your own company,  or getting good grades in school to get into an ivy league college thing...
There's plenty of reasons why burger flippers and taco assembly technicians shouldn't make as much as the CEO, but the reasons are too many to list here.

If you made a Venn diagram of people who want a higher minimum wage in one circle, and people who want all of their needs taken care of by government (in essence, by other people) in the other, your diagram would have an almost perfect overlap.

Well in my situation being on salary and basically nothing greater than a 2% raise for above satisfactory work since 2007 really doesn't inspire people to work any harder. One of the reasons I am trying very hard to find a new job with a pay step program and career ladder.

[MechAg94]

I do think CEO's should make pretty damn good salaries, but I think a lot of companies go after them like profession atheletes and pay way too much.  I think a lot of the problem with leadership in many corporations is the tendancy to promote managers to upper positions for all the wrong reasons. 

[MechAg94]

Well in my situation being on salary and basically nothing greater than a 2% raise for above satisfactory work since 2007 really doesn't inspire people to work any harder. One of the reasons I am trying very hard to find a new job with a pay step program and career ladder.

It is also nice when you realize that those upper managers also get 20% or 30% or higher performance bonuses for good numbers and go out of their way to cook the books to achieve it. 

[brimic]

Well in my situation being on salary and basically nothing greater than a 2% raise for above satisfactory work since 2007 really doesn't inspire people to work any harder. One of the reasons I am trying very hard to find a new job with a pay step program and career ladder.

That is actually part of the process.
More experience generally can demand more salary.
Vote with your feet.
The present employer will either have to pay more to replace you in an apples to apples sort of way, or find someone who is going to be less productive for awhile as they learn the ropes of the job.

Perhaps because some of us would rather actually produce something instead of just being enough of an A-hole to work up into middle or higher management.

There is that. I'm pretty happy with what I do and my compensation for it. I'd always like more pay, just like everyone else, but pay really isn't an issue for me.
I've been in management in a past job and I hated every minute of it, and quite frankly, I wasn't good at it. I couldn't delegate work to others when I could do it myself better and faster... I like going in, getting my job done, then leaving my work problems at the work door when I leave.

[Tallpine]

I've been in management in a past job and I hated every minute of it, and quite frankly, I wasn't good at it. I couldn't delegate work to others when I could do it myself better and faster... I like going in, getting my job done, then leaving my work problems at the work door when I leave.

I had my own business for eight years.  I had people working for me off and on during that time. I liked it a lot at the time but it really was a 24/7 job, as I ate, slept, and breathed my work.

A few years ago I got roped into supervising some other developers on a project.  I ended up spending about 50% of my time overseeing the other four guys getting 10% of the work done (much of which I had to re-do) and the other 50% of my time doing the other 90% of the work    (and I always gave them the simplest stuff to do and saved the hard stuff for myself)

Whenever a project gets going along smoothly and productively, it seems that a middle manager comes along and screws it up.

What I like best is to give me some work to do and then leave me the hell alone while I get it done 

[Boomhauer]

Why don't more people aspire to be CEO

Not even that. It's "Why don't people aspire to better themselves"

Going after that higher wage and better job takes dedication, sacrifice, risk, and hard work. Way too many people want an easy life with an easy job that has a favorable schedule and then they bitch when they don't get paid enough (in their minds) at their menial job for their non-skilled/low skill jobs and abilities.

[Cliffh]

Technology may be helping to end it. McDonalds, and other fast food places have been investing in the same self-serve kiosks that you see at the grocery store and Home Depot.

Whether you consider it good or bad, we have the technology to replace some unskilled labor. $15/hr seems to be a profit/loss tipping point for many service businesses to invest in that technology. From what I have seen in the places I shop, consumers prefer the self-service. There are often lines at the kiosks, even when a checker has none and is trying to call people over.

"Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind.

I'll stand in line with one item behind 4 others with full baskets before I'll use the self-serve checkout.

Way I figure, the kid working the register needs the job/money more than the company needs the customer to do the work.

[Marnoot]

As an impatient introvert, I go for the self checkouts every time. Scan, swipe, and go.

As often as not, when I go to a cashier I get one that doesn't know how to run their register, wants to make small talk about the items I'm buying (no, I'm not interested in discussing why I'm buying 3 different kinds of milk), or spends so long jawing it up with the person in front of me that I could have gone through the self checkout 4 times in the same amount of time.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Not even that. It's "Why don't people aspire to better themselves"

Going after that higher wage and better job takes dedication, sacrifice, risk, and hard work. Way too many people want an easy life with an easy job that has a favorable schedule and then they bitch when they don't get paid enough (in their minds) at their menial job for their non-skilled/low skill jobs and abilities.

It's all about the philosophy that is how little can I do and not get fired and how little can I do and still get by I can't tell you how many times I've worked places where overtime was available and people who bitched about not having enough money would not take it
I work at Union house one time we're closed down for 3 months out of the year and the union negotiated for their members the contract that got them paid just enough so I did not qualify for unemployment we woulda been better off getting unemployment bur the membership was too lazy to file

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