Colorado Shooter - Life Without Parole

[charby]

So we are back to boxing people up until they die.

What is another alternative?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

What is another alternative?

Cultural change.  But its too hard and folks have to wanna change

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[charby]

Cultural change.  But its too hard and folks have to wanna change

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I'm all for public stocks for petty crimes.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The change needs to come from within. And some cultures aren't interested

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[makattak]

Interestingly on point:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-flawed-missing-men-theory-1439159236

(Google "The Flawed Missing Men Theory" to read the whole article)

However, if the war on drugs played any role in shaping the contemporary black family, it is almost impossible to decipher from the data. As of 1979, only 5.7% of U.S. prisoners were incarcerated for drug offenses. Yet by that time nearly half of black births were already to single mothers. The number of men imprisoned for drug crimes rose only modestly until 1990, four years after Congress passed the Anti-Drug Abuse Act, legislating harsher sentences for crack cocaine, a move often cited as a cause of the disproportionately black prison population.

Far from leading to more fatherless children, the growing number of black men imprisoned for drugs coincided with a flattening of the percentage of black single mothers, after a 30-plus-year upward climb.

Read the rest.

[charby]

The change needs to come from within. And some cultures aren't interested

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Is Scared Straight still a program given to troubled youths?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yup


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[cordex]

What is another alternative?

In some cases there is none. In cases where there is no doubt as to their guilt and the crime is appropriately heinous, execution.

[vaskidmark]

Is Scared Straight still a program given to troubled youths?

It scares the kids that are willing to be scared.  There are a lot of kids that are not moved by the presentation (often saying that it is much less intimidating than home life).  There are also kids who see getting locked away as a rite of passage as well as a chance to meet up with relatives and friends.  We had four generations locked up in the same facility.  There was not 35 years between the youngest (16) and the oldest (50) which ought to give you some idea of what sort of "society" they came from.

stay safe.

[Scout26]

In some cases there is none. In cases where there is no doubt as to their guilt and the crime is appropriately heinous, execution.

Have we not "studied" the insane and mentally ill to death?  Yet, we still fail to identify those that need treatment/are dangerous.   And keep in mind that in the late 60's-early 70's liberals championed De-institutionalization, which many now see as a complete failure.

But, he continued, ''It happened much faster than we foresaw.'' The discharge of mental patients was accelerated in the late 1960's and early 1970's in some states as a result of a series of court decisions that limited the commitment powers of state and local officials.

Dr. Brown insists, as do others who were involved in the Congressional legislation to establish community mental health centers, that politicians and health experts were carrying out a public mandate to abolish the abominable conditions of insane asylums. He and others note - and their critics do not disagree - that their motives were not venal and that they were acting humanely. - http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html

Anyway, is not violating the rules of society prove a mental illness?  Especially one as heinous and grotesque as mass or serial killing (or even just one).   This is such a case where the ultimate punishment is warranted.

[RoadKingLarry]

Might depend on what the laws/rules of society are that get violated. I can think of several examples off the top of my head where individuals violating the rules of society ended up getting laws changed.

I support a medical treatment for most mentally ill but there is a local example where my opinion leans toward plain old euthanasia.  The 2 brothers that murderd 5 members of their own family and tried to kill the 6th. I don't care how old they are, there is no rehab, no treatment for something like that. Once it is proven that they in fact did it, all the i's are dotted and all the t's crossed just put them down like you would a rabid dog, no enmity, no hate, maybe a bit of sadness for a lost soul but that's about it.

[charby]

For the pro death penalty folks.

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

I'm not talking about killing someone who entered your house to cause harm to you and your family, but a person who has been caught, tried and imprisoned awaiting execution.

[RoadKingLarry]

If their crime warranted it, and if I KNEW they were guilty then I think maybe I could.

[makattak]

For the pro death penalty folks.

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

I'm not talking about killing someone who entered your house to cause harm to you and your family, but a person who has been caught, tried and imprisoned awaiting execution.

Yes. Well, not the burn them at the stake one, but the rest, yeah.

I'd probably have a problem if you handed me an axe, too. I'm not skilled enough to make it quick and painless.

[vaskidmark]

For the pro death penalty folks.

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

I'm not talking about killing someone who entered your house to cause harm to you and your family, but a person who has been caught, tried and imprisoned awaiting execution.

Yes.

And your inclusion of methods that are no longer permitted is a cheap appeal to emotionalism.  And for that I don't think I'd have problems lighting the fire under you or braining you.  Except that those methods are not allowed so it's really a moot issue regarding those methods.

stay safe.

[charby]

Yes.

And your inclusion of methods that are no longer permitted is a cheap appeal to emotionalism. 

Still done in other parts of the world.

[Jamisjockey]

Skid, it is not a distraction to observe that the legal definition of "insane" both for criminal responsibility and eligibility for punishment bears no relationship to common sense or reality.  It's quite common for people who are literally bat *expletive deleted*it crazy to be convicted and found, legally speaking, sane when they'd otherwise be committed for treatment.

As for American prisons, it's bizarre that you'd require no examination of anywhere else in the world as an option.  But anyway, how about the US before the 90's?  We didn't always imprison millions of people every year.  We still don't have to.

Unfortunately many of those imprisoned are for bullshit crimes like drug possession and other victimless crimes. 

[Tallpine]

For the pro death penalty folks.

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

I'm not talking about killing someone who entered your house to cause harm to you and your family, but a person who has been caught, tried and imprisoned awaiting execution.

For the guy that killed that Crow couple and wounded their daughter just for stopping to help him along the road, I would do all of those things, in sequence 

[cordex]

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

In cases where guilt is not in doubt and the crime merited it?  Not a duty I would want, but better than letting them kill again.  I'd prefer the quickest, least painful method available.

Let me ask you a couple questions in return:
If you were in a survival situation where you teamed up with someone but they turned out to be a bad choice, would you execute them?

If you had to hike a long distance in order to ensure the survival of yourself and loved ones wherein the alternative to traveling was almost certain death, but one of your loved ones were unable to make the trip, would you kill them?

[Ben]

For the pro death penalty folks.

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

What about if it was Hitler? Because asking if someone would burn somebody at the stake is essentially Godwining the thread.

[SADShooter]

For the pro death penalty folks.

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

I'm not talking about killing someone who entered your house to cause harm to you and your family, but a person who has been caught, tried and imprisoned awaiting execution.

Yes, for the same reasons I pay taxes and have hunted my own meat. I try hard to avoid being a hypocrite. However flawed they nay be, I benefit from the protections of law enforcement and our judicial system. If capital punishment is on the table and validated by due process, I would feel obliged to flip the switch, pull the lever, push the plunger, etc., even at the risk of being traumatized by the experience. That some other poor shmuck gets paid to do it is not an insulating factor as you imply.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Unfortunately many of those imprisoned are for bullshit crimes like drug possession and other victimless crimes. 

What percentage do you imagine are in for drug possession and I choose the words imagine for a reason

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

For the pro death penalty folks.

Could you be the person who pulls the trigger, puts the noose around the head & pulls the trap, push the plunger on the syringe, hit them in the head with a killing hammer, tie them to a pole & light the fire, strap them to a chair, hook the electrodes up, & pull the switch, etc?

I'm not talking about killing someone who entered your house to cause harm to you and your family, but a person who has been caught, tried and imprisoned awaiting execution.

Absolutely could I don't need to be in another room pushing the plunger into some an IV line I can sit right down next to him thump up the vein and send them off

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[KD5NRH]

then turn around and appeal the carrying out of a death sentence over technical issues such as claiming, for instance, that because nobody can prove that the first drug used in lethal injection actually keeps them from feeling pain there is a chance the method violates the 8th Amendment.

A situation where it would have been nice if the first judge to hear this argument had set a precedent by pulling a large pistol out from under the bench, shooting the complainer and his lawyer in the head, and closing the case.

[charby]

What about if it was Hitler? Because asking if someone would burn somebody at the stake is essentially Godwining the thread.

I'm not opposed to hard labor, he could be breaking big rocks into little rocks for the rest of his life.