Author Topic: Commuting By Bicycle  (Read 32999 times)

Cosmoline

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Commuting By Bicycle
« on: November 07, 2006, 03:22:37 PM »
Since about March of this year I've been living increasingly car-free.  Not so much because of Al Gore as because of Al Gut.  My BP was getting high and I found I could no longer move as fast or hike as long as I used to, so I decided to lose the car.  I've logged a quarter million miles on Alaska's highways so I figure I've done enough driving for this lifetime and I enjoy the pace of a bike more. 

Anyway, my biggest problem when I was getting started was finding a good solid cruiser.  For a long time now the bike industry has been geared towards the X-Treme crowd of pierced young things. They've created all sorts of bizarre things that pass for bicycles, none of which will hold so much as a loaf of bread.  What I ended up doing is getting an Electra Rat Rod beach cruiser and converting it over into a utility bike.  I put on a sun rim on the back with 13 ga spokes, an improved alloy post and stronger cranks.  It's that rarest of things today-a heavy, solid bike.  It weighs upwards of fifty pounds fully loaded, so you can't win any races with it.  But it cruises like a railroad car and that weight makes it very stable on ice.  Plus, its internal hub and disk brakes don't freeze up.  I recently put some Nokian Freddies' Revenge studs on the thing, and it loves ice.  For any non-teens looking to get back into bike riding I highly recommend Electras





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Jamisjockey

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2006, 04:31:13 PM »
I know a bunch of pot smoking piercing wearing types that have exactly what you need
http://www.surlybikes.com
Let me recommend the CrossCheck, or the Long Haul trucker.
Of course, after I started my post I saw that you're in Alaska.  There is only one bike for you then.
http://www.surlybikes.com/pugsley.html


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JD

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mtnbkr

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2006, 04:37:31 PM »
JJ, I was gonna recommend Surly, but I figured he'd find something wrong with them such as the lack of flames or apehanger bars. Wink

I've seen a built up pugsly in person.  They're pretty nifty bikes, but I can't justify something that purpose built.  Besides, those wheels and tires alone cost a fortune.

Personally, I'd really like to build up a Long Haul Trucker for cruising around town and the C&O Canal. 

Chris

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2006, 04:58:02 PM »
i have a 5 speed Schwinn King Sting that is a heck of a bomber

With 2.125s on it it was a good snow bike
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Cosmoline

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2006, 05:01:33 PM »
I'm thinking about building my own off a surly frame, but haven't had the time.  I've seen some amazing custom bikes done on them though.  Albeit mostly cyclo-cross types.  

What I really want is an old Finnish or Swiss military bicycle to restore.  Those beasts weighed a ton and could run a man down.  People are too fixated on getting bikes lighter and lighter. 

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2006, 05:36:30 PM »
I've started to do a lot of commuting on my new Surly Crosscheck.  I can walk to work, I can do all of my errands and shopping on the Surly.  About the only thing I still need my truck for is traveling out of town.  Of course, now that the weather has changed, I find myself driving more again.    undecided

Surly is going to start building an Xtracycle frame soon.  That'll make for one ingeniously sensible commuter bike.  You might want to look into it.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2006, 05:11:05 AM »
JJ, I was gonna recommend Surly, but I figured he'd find something wrong with them such as the lack of flames or apehanger bars. Wink

I've seen a built up pugsly in person.  They're pretty nifty bikes, but I can't justify something that purpose built.  Besides, those wheels and tires alone cost a fortune.

Personally, I'd really like to build up a Long Haul Trucker for cruising around town and the C&O Canal. 

Chris

I'd say the Surly could be custom painted with flames and he could put moustache bars on instead of drops.

If I were to build a Pugsly it would be with moustache bars and bar end shifters.

I love the Pugsly, but I'd like to build either a Long Haul or a rigid MTB for beating around or hunting/fishing. 
JD

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mtnbkr

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2006, 06:26:38 AM »
Quote from: Cosmoline
For a long time now the bike industry has been geared towards the X-Treme crowd of pierced young things. They've created all sorts of bizarre things that pass for bicycles, none of which will hold so much as a loaf of bread. 
Yes and no.  There is still a strong touring bike industry, but you've got to look and ask.  They're not now, nor have they ever been a large part of the market.  Plus, even among bike commuters I know, there isn't a need for the sort of bike you built.  Most use mountain bikes, hybrids, or slightly beefed up road bikes.  A rear rack with panniers or a backpack offer all the storage they need.  When I commuted by bike (10miles each way), I carried a laptop, change of clothes, towel, etc in a North Face daypack.  Speed and efficiency were more important than raw cargo carrying capacity.  Even now, when I ride my bike to the store, I'll either use that same backpack or I'll use the Burley trailer I bought to tow my daughter. 

Quote from: Cosmoline
People are too fixated on getting bikes lighter and lighter. 
I only wish.  At least on the mountain bike side, bikes have been getting heavier due to the downhill/freeride fad.  When I bought my current bike, a 25lb hardtail was pretty easy to find, now most seem to weigh 27lbs or more.  The downhill oriented bikes run 35-40lbs.

Don't equate weight with strength.  Depending on the material and construction method, a lighter bike can be stronger.  Cruisers like yours weren't designed for performance riding and they aren't expected to be ridden fast or in challenging conditions.  Therefore, they can get away with weaker materials by using more of it since weight and strength are less important.

BTW, some of the extreme sports stuff has been beneficial.  Disk brakes on bikes are great.  A couple months ago, I put a disk brake on the front of my bike (Avid Mechanical BB5 on sale for $39).  I haven't had to touch it since and it offers much more power and modulation than rim brakes.  Since installing it, I've had to adjust and/or replace the pads on my rear rim brake several times.  I haven't had to touch the disk brake once.  Disk brakes supposedly don't freeze.  I'll find out this winter. Smiley

Chris

Cosmoline

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2006, 08:43:56 AM »
I've actually been in this debate over and over again on the bike forums.  The attitude you present is pretty common among the biking elite.  They're convinced there's no need for cruisers or utility bikes.  They discount the needs of people like me, which is one reason I was so turned off by the little punks who seem to dominate every bike shop in town. 

You can do what you want, but I find it pretty absurd to ride to the store on a mountain bike with no fenders, no basket and a tiny rack then carry everything back home in a backpack, getting splattered because you think fenders are uncool.  Mountain bikes, touring bikes, and downhill bikes can all be used for commuting.  But that doesn't make them a good choice for utility bikes.  The irony is, the bikes I prefer are also by far the most common bikes on the planet everywhere except the US.  Billions of them have been made, and you can find them flying around everywhere from Amsterdam to Singapore.  But here, if someone wants a solid, simple bike with a #$@ basket they're considered some kind of atavistic freak.  It's as if in the world of firearms only expensive tacticool rifles were available and asking for a stodgy old bolt action would bring remarks about how their steel isn't really stronger and how you're much better off with a semiauto with a polymer stock.

Quote
Cruisers like yours weren't designed for performance riding and they aren't expected to be ridden fast or in challenging conditions.  Therefore, they can get away with weaker materials by using more of it since weight and strength are less important.

Any bike I ride will need to be able to withstand enormous physical forces.  Give me your toughest, coolest mountain bike and I guarantee I can bust the spokes, bend the forks and snap the cranks.  The last mountain bike I had, I ran into a concrete post and accordioned the supposedly indestructible alloy frame.  They're designed for men under 25 who weigh under 200.  I'm not either!  The fact that this Electra has withstood me for this long is proof of its basic strength.  Just like the old-school rifles I love, I prefer it because its simple and it works. 

But you're right about the new brakes.  I have them and a Shimano Nexus hub, and both work fantastic even in deep cold.


Perd Hapley

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2006, 09:00:37 AM »
Forget that extreme stuff.  What's a good, cheap bike for some basic riding?  Day-trips on gravel bike-trails, and so forth? 
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mtnbkr

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2006, 09:54:53 AM »
I've actually been in this debate over and over again on the bike forums.  The attitude you present is pretty common among the biking elite.  They're convinced there's no need for cruisers or utility bikes.  They discount the needs of people like me, which is one reason I was so turned off by the little punks who seem to dominate every bike shop in town. 
Actually, I said there's not much need for that sort of bike among the bike commuters around here.  There's also not much of a market for what you see in Europe because cycling in the US is seen as either a recreational sport of a child's pasttime (a bad thing I admit).  I actually like those style bikes (especially the Raleigh 3spds) and have tried to get one via ebay for the past year, but it would only get use around the neighborhood and for trips to the store.

Quote
You can do what you want, but I find it pretty absurd to ride to the store on a mountain bike with no fenders, no basket and a tiny rack then carry everything back home in a backpack, getting splattered because you think fenders are uncool. 
Every bike I've owned had the capabilities to use racks and fenders though.  I've seen fenders in the past two bike shops I've visited and even bikes on the floor with fenders mounted.  You don't typically see them on mountain bikes because it's just another way to get crap jammed into your wheels, same with racks.  Folks that aren't riding for recreation tend to have fenders and even racks.  Folks who use their bikes for recreation and fitness generally choose not to use fenders because they don't need them and can choose not to ride when the roads and trails are wet.

Quote
Mountain bikes, touring bikes, and downhill bikes can all be used for commuting.  But that doesn't make them a good choice for utility bikes. 
I never said they did.  I simply mentioned them to offer alternatives in gear and thinking.  No one bike is perfect for everything, they all have shortcomings.

Quote
The irony is, the bikes I prefer are also by far the most common bikes on the planet everywhere except the US.  Billions of them have been made, and you can find them flying around everywhere from Amsterdam to Singapore.  But here, if someone wants a solid, simple bike with a #$@ basket they're considered some kind of atavistic freak. 
The two shops nearby have bikes like you describe.  Some of those bikes even have baskets, fenders, and racks. 

Quote
Any bike I ride will need to be able to withstand enormous physical forces.  Give me your toughest, coolest mountain bike and I guarantee I can bust the spokes, bend the forks and snap the cranks. 
I'm gonna have to call BS on this one.  Bicycle tourers who ride all over the world, including Alaska, with everything they need to live (upwards of 200lbs in some cases) don't have this problem.  "Extreme" mountain bikers do, but they're flinging themselves and their bikes off dropoffs and jumps taller than themselves.  That's why their bikes are heavier, they have to deal with that sort of abuse. 

Quote
The last mountain bike I had, I ran into a concrete post and accordioned the supposedly indestructible alloy frame.
Whoever told you that frame was indestructable was lying to you.  No bike frame is indestructible or even sold that way.  That said, I've personally run into trees, berms, etc with my bikes without busting the frame.  My old bike sports a cracked shifter where I ran into a tree at 15mph because I couldn't stop or swerve in time.  I rode that bike another 3 months before retiring it to get the bike I currently ride. 

Chris

mtnbkr

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2006, 09:57:25 AM »
Forget that extreme stuff.  What's a good, cheap bike for some basic riding?  Day-trips on gravel bike-trails, and so forth? 
Just about anything sold at a decent bike shop will work.  Budget about $200ish and buy a 2006 model on closeout.  The local Performance Bike Shop (www.performacebike.com) has some nifty bikes on clearance for about $180.  They'd be perfect for that sort of riding.  Avoid the junk at department stores like Wal-mart because they're not up to the same quality and usually put together by people that don't know how to build a bike.

Chris

Jamisjockey

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2006, 09:57:45 AM »
I disagree.  Bikes like the Pugsly are built to ride tough, and carry a load, and run full racks or tow trailers.  And are just as tough as what you're riding.

I have an inexpensive mountain bike (800 dollar range) that I've ridden exclusively off-road.  I've flipped it, ran it into trees, and lost it down a 10' embankment at about 20mph.  I've beaten the crap out of it and not broken a single spoke nor any other part.  

Fistful:
You probably want a hard-tail mountain bike.  You can get something from the bike shop in the $300-800 range that is perfect for that kind of riding.  Keep the drivetrain clean and lubed, replace the tubes each season or when flatted, tires every other year.
JD

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2006, 10:00:56 AM »
I'll keep my eyes open for a $10 dollar yard-sale special.  Smiley  I'd ride it about twice a year. 
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2006, 10:01:30 AM »
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Jamisjockey

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2006, 10:02:01 AM »
I'll keep my eyes open for a $10 dollar yard-sale special.  Smiley  I'd ride it about twice a year. 

You'll get what you pay for, in that case.
JD

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mtnbkr

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2006, 10:05:28 AM »
Fistful,

Neither of these are cheap, but they have some nice features (including racks and fenders).  The second one even has generator hubs to power the lights, no batteries needed.

http://www.rei.com/product/47992734.htm

http://www.rei.com/product/48075197.htm

Chris

mtnbkr

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2006, 10:08:53 AM »
I'll keep my eyes open for a $10 dollar yard-sale special.  Smiley  I'd ride it about twice a year. 
You'll get what you pay for, in that case.
Maybe not.  I've seen some nice bikes go for peanuts at yardsales.  I've heard of others finding rare and desirable mountain bikes of the 80s and early 90s sold for as little as $10 (check out the vintage forum at mtbr.com).  If basic utilty is all you need, that's a good place to start.  Heck, a guy in the local mountain bike club sold a nice 2yo Klein Attitude ($1700 when new!) for $500 this summer.  It wasn't NIB, but it wasn't abused either. 

Chris

Perd Hapley

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2006, 10:16:09 AM »
Sometimes, I get the urge to ride the Katy Trail, which is a smooth, gravel/paved walking/biking path.  I wouldn't do this more than once a year, and probably not more than a day trip.  Other than that, I might ride it a few times during the year, just around my suburban neighborhood.  So, you could say I'm not that committed to the idea, hence the low expected outlay.  I'll let you guys talk about real bikes, now. 
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Cosmoline

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2006, 10:36:08 AM »
If you doubt my ability to destroy bikes, you're welcome to let me ride yours for a few days  grin  

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No one bike is perfect for everything, they all have shortcomings.

True!  I think that's the key.  Mountain bikes are good for what they were made for.  But UTILITY BIKES are the best for in-town mixed use bike riding on a budget.  Sadly that market has been ignored, and I still run into the attitude that people asking for a utility bike should just shut up and buy a cheap mountain bike.  Thankfully, good old Electra at least is hearing the call:

http://www.electrabike.com/06_new/flash_index.html

And there are a few custom shops around the country making simple, steel-frame durable bikes for utility riding.  Intsead of attacking anyone who isn't sufficiently fit or xtreme, the bicycle crowd should be encouraging more widespread riding.  As things stand now, the solid, simple cruisers and ten speeds that brought in the great bicycle revolution of the 70's have been replaced by a mix of specialty bikes and poorly made Wal-Mart specials.  The bulk of bike shops cater to a young, highly athletic crowd.  I heard the same "No dude, we don't have anything like that" over and over again when trying to find a sturdy, simple cruiser for utility work. 

mtnbkr

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2006, 10:57:37 AM »
True!  I think that's the key.  Mountain bikes are good for what they were made for.  But UTILITY BIKES are the best for in-town mixed use bike riding on a budget. 
How cheap do you want to go?  The local Performance Bike shop has several bikes on their floor right now that have baskets, racks, upright riding position, etc for $180.  They don't have fenders, but you can add them.  They have other models similar to your Electra.

Quote
Sadly that market has been ignored, and I still run into the attitude that people asking for a utility bike should just shut up and buy a cheap mountain bike.  Thankfully, good old Electra at least is hearing the call:
http://www.electrabike.com/06_new/flash_index.html
And there are a few custom shops around the country making simple, steel-frame durable bikes for utility riding.  Intsead of attacking anyone who isn't sufficiently fit or xtreme, the bicycle crowd should be encouraging more widespread riding. 
Dunno where you're getting that attitude from.  The shops around here would love to have another market segment to sell to.  The word from the proverbial horse's mouth in this area is that the new fad for 29ers (700c or 29" wheeled mountain bikes) is great because it's another way to sell a bike to a person who already has 1 or more bikes.  I'm sure they'd feel the same way about utility bikes if folks would buy them.

BTW, check this thread: http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5471

See if you recognize the original poster.  See if you recognize the link the other guy provided.  That's a regional mountain bike board, populated with folks who spend a lot more on bikes than I do (psst, buddy, want a $1600 IndyFab frameset?).

BTW, the Amsterdam's MSRP is roughly the same price as one of the bikes in the links I provided Fistful (http://www.rei.com/product/47992734.htm).  Those bikes are actually on the floor at the local REI (as are other, similar models).  I'd buy one of those or the Amsterdam, but I can't justify $550 on one at the moment.  My mountain bike pulls triple duty as an offroad machine, grocery getter, and toddler tow vehicle. Cheesy

Chris

Cosmoline

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2006, 11:09:10 AM »

Again, you've got a cool bike with a young rider going down the frozen river to techno music.  It's the same old story in a new setting. 

Iain

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2006, 11:23:07 AM »
Love the electra bikes, they remind me of a picture I've got somewhere of an old Indian adapted for 'wall of death' riding.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2006, 12:10:09 PM »
Again, you've got a cool bike with a young rider going down the frozen river to techno music.  It's the same old story in a new setting. 
And?  What's wrong with the cool bike and the young rider?  That's marketing.  The Pugsly is a neat idea.  One of the nifty features is that you use a rear hub as your front hub so you can swap wheels front to rear in the event of a freehub failure.  It has mounts for disk and rim brakes.  It has rack mounts, room for fenders, etc.  You can build it up as simple or as complex as you'd like.  It's biggest drawback is that to take full advantage of it's capabilities, you need to buy their rims and tires.  I don't have the numbers in front of me, but a wheelset with those rims and tires would run over $1000.  The rest of the bike would be normal bike components though.

Chris

Jamisjockey

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Re: Commuting By Bicycle
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2006, 12:27:31 PM »

Again, you've got a cool bike with a young rider going down the frozen river to techno music.  It's the same old story in a new setting. 

The pugsly is the only ride I can think of built for that kind of riding.  Ignore the techno and admit that a Pugsly with flat bars and ATB gearing would be the ultimate alaska bike. 
JD

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