Author Topic: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd  (Read 4740 times)

grampster

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,456
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2015, 01:19:42 PM »
.... orders to overlook atrocities in ME because "that's their culture", etc, etc)

If that's the case, we ought to get the hell out of the ME as we are an offense to their culture by being there.

If women want to be "Amazons" then they need to have one breast removed as the originals did.  (ducks and bobs and weaves)
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2015, 01:40:15 PM »
Bsl, nature will triumph over training.  And training will generally not triumph over upbringing.  Even if you manage to desensitive men to the pain and discomfort of women, the problems of intraunit romantic baloney, de facto prostitution in exchange for favors and the whole mess is not worth the effort.

 I would urge to to read the link i left in my previous post.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2015, 01:43:52 PM »
So we should have an army that prioritizes one genders safety and we'll being above another's instead of having a military that prioritizes human life above death, period?

Well, I guess this great military is going to do the rad fems job for them and just kill off all the men. Good job.

As far as troops saving female combatants over mission priorities or sacrificing male troops, are you really telling me that particular mindset can't be whooped out of these macho men in boot camp? Seriously?
I love that the whole bruhaha over the fact woman in combat will fail is because the men will try to keep them safe while at the same time sexual harassment and rape is an epidemic in the military.
I hate to burst your little bubble, but men aren't nearly as concerned with the safety and well being of woman as you think.

And yes, it is worth it to train that crap out of men, even without adding woman into combat. They should have been doing it all along. They need to be doing it now. Don't bitch about how dangerous it is for the male soldiers to be saving woman and conveniently forget that those soldiers are often operating against guerilla style rebles on their home ground, where woman very well may pick up arms and start shooting.

As far as sex goes, if anyone can't control their responses enough to cope on an adult level, then they need to go back to high school, because they are not an adult.


Did you read the article Roo_ster linked to?
http://www.baen.com/amazonsrightbreast.asp
^
That's it.  Go there, read the article by one who's "been there, done that."  
The things mentioned are not that easy to change.  
The author of that article states everything so much better than I could, there's little point in me trying to repeat it.



If that's the case, we ought to get the hell out of the ME as we are an offense to their culture by being there.

If women want to be "Amazons" then they need to have one breast removed as the originals did.  (ducks and bobs and weaves)

Despite the myth that Amazons amputated their right breasts in order to (theoretically) use the bow more readily there is actually no surviving evidence in artwork they actually did, despite the fact the word "amazon" literally means "one breast."
The point remains moot, I guess .... since there were, in fact, no real Amazons; they existed solely in Greek Mythology.
The Amazon River got it's name because early Spanish explorers spied armed people along the shore watching their boats who were of small stature, and assumed to be (wrongly) women. 
And my respects still go out to Linda Carter for her performance as one of the (UNmaimed) Amazon Princesses in a certain TV series from my college years.  [popcorn] :angel: :angel:
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2015, 10:03:44 PM »
Dear BSL,

Having never served your frame of reference is purely theoretical.  I have served in mixed gender units.   Both Active and Reserve (Military Police) and I can count on one finger the number of females that were worth a damn out in the field (were the rubber truly meets the road).  

I am personally aware of not one but TWO companies that were raided for running prostitution, one with 23 females (C Company (Medical) 208th Forward Support Battalion, 8th Infantry Division, and the 814th Military Police Company (During DS/DS)).  I served as it's XO after I came off active duty when it had ZERO females assigned as all assigned had been part of the ring (when they were getting $300-$500 a trick while making E-3/E-4 pay, it seems most would let their female NCOs pimp them out).   Even before that about once every 3-6 months or so we'd hear about a unit in Germany that had several females assigned that would get caught up in a prostitution ring or one sort or another.  

Within 2 weeks of the 92nd MP CO being alerted to go to DS/DS 12 females in that company were suddenly pregnant.   It also usually happened to new females after their first trip to the field for an extended exercise, then once we would start prepping for the next one, suddenly all these new females who had been in the Army for less then a year would show up pregnant and we have to give them the option to stay or get out.  So here's a soldier that been in for 6-9 months and she's out processing because it ain't at all like the recruiter said with playing Keystone Cop.  They want me to carry both a machine gun (yeah newbie, here's the M60 Machine Gun.  It's called "The Pig", because it weighs 28 pounds, unloaded, but you also have to carry 100 rounds of ammo (8 lbs) for it.  Oh, you don't want to carry that, then you can carry 200 rounds of ammo (16.7 lbs), plus the 16 pound tripod.  Plus all your *expletive deleted*it and the PRC-77 radio..

Like I said, there was ONE in 4 years of active duty and 7 years on the reserves that could hump their load and keep up (or not have to re-distribute the weight to their other two team members).

Do I even have to go into the completely unsanitary conditions that living out in the field is like?  If I had one, I probably had at least twenty females come-up to me (with their NCO chain of command just so they could watch me lose my *expletive deleted*it) and ask to be excused/go "Home" because their period was about to start or had started.  

And yeah, we were the closest things to infantry there is for females (do note that one of the two females to make it through Ranger School is an MP Officer).   We used to joke that we were motorized infantry, that the crossed pistols on our collars were bent rifles.   Our mission was (and still it) to close with a destroy enemy special operations and irregular forces operating behind the Forward Line of Own Troops, on in the current 4th Generation Asymmetrical Warfare speak "Everywhere".

And the simple fact is that women can not hack it.  Yes, there might be one or two here and there, but it the standards were equalized for men and women, the rad-fems and do-gooders would be screaming bloody murder at the numbers of women being shown the door and failing to graduate basic training.

And your "Train it out of the men", is such utter bull hockey.  You really want men to never treat you like a woman or lady again?  Then don't EVER say word *expletive deleted*ing one about any scantily attired women in pictures or movies in the barracks or any where else.  Not another *expletive deleted*ing word about sexual harassment  or *expletive deleted*ing feelings.  You want to be treated like a man.  Then harden the *expletive deleted*ck up.  Go pick up a weapon and stand a post.

We already have a metric shitload of data from both the Soviet Union (Socialism makes everyone equal, Comrade !!!) and Israel, about what horrible *expletive deleted*ing disasters putting women in front-line units were.   The ONLY reason they did it is because they were literally fighting for their very survival as a nation, and they pretty much un-did it as soon as they could.*


*- Although the Israelis didn't really have women in frontline combat after the country was founded in 1948  Women did serve in the underground before statehood.  It would appear that Israel is going away from it's past experience of women not serving in combat units and putting them in some units in combat roles.  http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/185563
Quote
Critics of the gender-mixing experiment in the IDF have noted that women who serve in combat units suffer from an extremely high rate of injury and that often, entire platoons are disabled because of this. According to Col. (res.) Raz Sagi, who has authored a book on the subject, injuries suffered by women tend to be more serious and often involve stress fractures at the hip and uterine prolapse, which can cause permanent inability to give birth.

In addition, the critics point out that in order to enable enough women to pass the physical tests for entry into the combat units, requirements for women are significantly lower than for men. In a physical test that includes jumping over a wall, for instance, the women are given a bench to step on as they climb over the wall. Another technique adopted by the military to mask gender differences is to have trainees run long distances in circles rather than in straight lines, making it less embarrassing for the women to lag behind the men, because no one can tell what lap they have completed at any given point in time.






« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 06:39:12 PM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Andiron

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2015, 10:25:42 PM »
Dear BSL,





Damn, but I wish I had the eloquence to have said that.

Well said.
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2015, 10:50:52 PM »


Just watched that movie last night...
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,271
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2015, 10:53:53 PM »
Just watched that movie last night...

I don't recognize it.   ???
"It's good, though..."

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2015, 10:55:06 PM »
I don't recognize it.   ???
The Fifth Element
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,271
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2015, 11:26:20 PM »
The Fifth Element

Thanks.  I think I actually saw that movie, I just don't remember any of it.  The intro on youtube looks very familiar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BbtVORf_WM
"It's good, though..."

zahc

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,803
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2015, 01:08:08 AM »
Quote
I love that the whole bruhaha over the fact woman in combat will fail is because the men will try to keep them safe while at the same time sexual harassment and rape is an epidemic in the military.

These two things are not at all  contradictory. I might even say they are twin pillars of male sexuality. If instinctively protecting women while also trying to mix DNA with them (with only secondary concern for whether they want protected or impregnated) appears contradictory, it's only because standard normal male sexuality got deconstructed somewhere along the way everything about sexuality got deconstructed by the suicidalists.

I forgive you your confusion...I myself cannot stay ahead of what deviated preversion is currently encouraged, accepted and protected, and what normal human response is demonized, ignored, or denied.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
--Tallpine

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,870
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2015, 11:45:04 AM »
I think the main issue is the standards for the military need to be the same for everyone with no exceptions.  However, the PC police don't seem to want to accept that. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2015, 07:15:41 PM »
I agree. The current status quo is idiotic and counter productive.
On one hand you have the sexist jerks who don't want the ladies in the boys club pushing their BS, and on the other hand, you have the delusional liberal idiots with their attitude of forcing it to work where it's not going to.

The results are that the sexist jerks get proven "right" because the affirmative action style BS is keeping around woman who should have washed out.

The reality is that very few woman would make it, even in many non combatant roles. Furthermore, fewer woman would even bother joining up because they would no longer be catered too.
The few who did make it are not the type who would cause issues.

But it is worth it, because it is straight up equality. When people rise or fail based on their individual merits, rather than anything else, we can get over a lot of this BS drama that is crippling our society (and yes, this last statement is not just talking about the military)

Apparently I have to quote my own posts because people around here are too dumb read them the first time.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

Andiron

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2015, 07:42:28 PM »
That's helpful,  since those of us who actually served probably weren't smart enough to get it the first time.  :facepalm:
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

erictank

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,410
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2015, 09:12:25 AM »
As another "I was there" example -

Fraternization (which is a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice) was drilled into us as being a Bad Thing, from boot camp (1991, for me) all the way through refresher training on the ship (1997 for me, the year I got out).  The TR was, IIRC, the first carrier to receive integrated airwing personnel, in early-mid-1995 (Med Cruise 95 started in... March?  Female airwing accompanied us from the wing's embarkation), and female ship's-company personnel in mid-96.

Every.  Single.  Week.  There was in the ship's paper, in the weekly Captain's Mast reports, at least one and usually multiple cases of fraternization, said personnel both being busted a stripe and some percentage of pay for a couple months for violation of the UCMJ.  A couple of the more... enterprising female air-wing personnel did quite well for themselves on the cruise, and bought a car when they got home.

My division, Reactor Controls, received 4 women in the first wave of female nuclear-trained operators.  One of those was the first woman from Reactor Department to leave the ship, several days after reporting; "claustrophobia" was the reason given.  On a CARRIER.

The last of those 4 RC-Div women declared her pregnancy the weekend before we deployed to the Med that November.  The other two did so a bit earlier, September and October IIRC.  We did NOT receive a single replacement for any of the 4 before deploying. 

Out of... thirty?  forty? probably closer to 40, but let's say 35 women among the 4 "nuclear rates" (Nuke ET, Nuke EM, RM, Nuke M-div) who arrived that (early) fall before the cruise, a whopping *FOUR* made the cruise with us.  One EM and 3 MMs.  I think it was two RMs and 1 M-div.  Now, those 4 were hard workers who busted ass to get the job done and to be taken seriously by their co-workers.  But those women DID NOT HAVE the physical capacity of their male co-workers, and they were the EXCEPTIONS.  They were the ones who did NOT use the "get out of cruise free" card.  Ironic that the rate with the least requirement for physical effort (the ETs in RC div) had zero women make the cruise - but there were simply a lot more mechanics, because there are a lot more nuke mechanics overall than electricians or electronics-techs. 

Maybe things are different in today's military.  This was my own experience with integrated crew, on the combat vessel best able to accommodate the required differences.  And I consider what happened to be unacceptable.

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2015, 09:20:26 AM »
As another "I was there" example -

Maybe things are different in today's military.  This was my own experience with integrated crew, on the combat vessel best able to accommodate the required differences.  And I consider what happened to be unacceptable.

No they are not. 

I have lived it myself just as scout has stated, I would be shocked that more than 5% of women can actually hold their own when the *expletive deleted*it hits the fan and are expected to do the same things as a man.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,352
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2015, 09:52:30 AM »
I think the main issue is the standards for the military need to be the same for everyone with no exceptions.  However, the PC police don't seem to want to accept that. 

There are recurring rumors that even the two women who finally made it through Army Ranger training without lowering the standards actually benefited from some "adjusting" of the standards.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,882
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2015, 10:09:07 AM »
Our culture is so confused about the sexes, male and female, and their best roles in society that we now argue about the stupidest and most absurd of things. Reminds me of the following quote:

"We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." - George Orwell
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,021
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2015, 10:20:43 AM »

Our mission was (and still it) to close with a destroy enemy special operations and irregular forces operating behind the Forward Line of Own Troops, on in the current 4th Generation Asymmetrical Warfare speak "Everywhere".

Off thread topic, but I like to learn something every day:  is this an unusual mission for a MP company?  Do all MP companies do this, or was this a mission unique to your company?  Knowing absolutely nothing about them, I always thought that MPs did general law enforcement duties in the military.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2015, 10:44:40 AM »
I agree with BSL. Women should be in combat roles, and men should be trained to stop showing them improper deference. In fact, I even have a few suggestions for the training syllabus.....

1. Start using targets on the firearm ranges that look like realistic females. 60% or more of the targets should depict females of all cultures (to show tolerance, of course). The best way to show equal respect is to be willing to shoot a person regardless of sex.

2. All force-on-force training should be weighted toward fighting female "enemies". MARPAT, bayonet, BJJ....whatever. We need to get our male soldiers used to beating up and killing females in order to defeat the preferential attitude.

3. We need to reduce the penalties for violent crime against females. If anything, the penalties for a male physically attacking a female should be LESS than for attacking a fellow male. This would eventually erode the attitude that women serving in the military should be protected and even out any preferential treatment that has hampered women's success in the services.

It's a modest proposal.....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,882
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2015, 12:12:21 PM »
There are recurring rumors that even the two women who finally made it through Army Ranger training without lowering the standards actually benefited from some "adjusting" of the standards.

People magazine of all places.

I would expect more along the lines of "You go girl!" puff from them.

http://www.people.com/article/female-ranger-school-graduation-planned-advance
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,271
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2015, 12:39:19 PM »
There are recurring rumors that even the two women who finally made it through Army Ranger training without lowering the standards actually benefited from some "adjusting" of the standards.

That shows the moral character and leadership ability (or lacks thereof) of the brass, not two women involved.

I assume there will be an exhaustive investigation to find out who leaked the information.
"It's good, though..."

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2015, 01:06:39 PM »
Off thread topic, but I like to learn something every day:  is this an unusual mission for a MP company?  Do all MP companies do this, or was this a mission unique to your company?  Knowing absolutely nothing about them, I always thought that MPs did general law enforcement duties in the military.

Short answer:
Read Lind's writings on 4th Gen warfare.  Even if you don't buy his labeling/categorization (4th vs 0th vs irregular vs whatever), the reality is all there.
http://www.amazon.com/Four-Generations-Modern-War-ebook/dp/B00PO4KD4U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443459694&sr=8-1&keywords=william+lind

Longer answer:
MPs have traditionally been responsible for order behind the combat zone.  From common law crimes, military-particular crimes, down to traffic.  Are you a VERY IMPORTANT GENERAL IN A BIG HURRY IN YOUR VEHICLE?  Sit tight and suck it up until the MP directing traffic gets to your brass-heavy *expletive deleted*ss.

Thing is, most conflicts nowadays we get into have no "behind the combat zone."  There are places with more or less immediate danger and places which are no-go for anyone but combat arms.  That roadway, road junction, village, and river valley just cleared last week by the infantry?  Today it gets patrolled by MPs with small arms and light vehicles instead of infantry units with everything up to 81mm mortars, TOWs, Javelins, organic and maybe with an attached tank unit. Sheee-it.


That shows the moral character and leadership ability (or lacks thereof) of the brass, not two women involved.

This.  I have respect for them, individually, for making the attempt.

The women would not have a point of reference to know if Ranger School were being "gender normed" for them.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2015, 01:56:14 PM »
Off thread topic, but I like to learn something every day:  is this an unusual mission for a MP company?  Do all MP companies do this, or was this a mission unique to your company?  Knowing absolutely nothing about them, I always thought that MPs did general law enforcement duties in the military.

Pretty much yes.  Even though MP's still do some Garrison Law Enforcement, there is still the combat mission.  Which as Roo_ster pointed out consists of securing routes and road crossings.  (We often were task with going out forward to secure important routes or advance PRIOR to the Infantry and Armor guys advancing.*)  We are often one of the first types of units deployed and the the last to leave.  Often because we can be explained away as "They are cops, just doing Law Enforcement."  When in reality we have more firepower at the platoon and company level (except for mortars and TOW missiles) then an infantry company.

Wikipedia actually does a fairly good job of describing the MP missions:  https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Military_Police_Corps_%28United_States%29&redirect=no



* Probably the best description of the MP mission.  Supporting the Three- http://www.anysoldier.com/Fischbach/SupportingTheThree/
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: The mindset of the "Women in Combat" crowd
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2015, 02:16:20 AM »
Worked with a guy who spent his Navy hitch in submarines. He said that normally after returning from patrol, the returning crew got leave while the dockworkers repaired/refit/replenished/rearmed the sub for the next crew. HOWEVER, once the Navy started accepting more women, they assigned them to dockworker duty, since they couldn't be assigned to sub patrols.

They couldn't do the work - just not strong enough to lift and tote some the the things that needed lifting and toting. So the returning crews got less leave and THEY had to do the dockworker's jobs, with a predictable effect on morale.

Sounds like a Boomer sailor.

Might have been different 25 years ago when I was doing it though.
When we came in after a deployment some work was off-hulled to the sub tender and IMA(Intermediate maintenance authority) folks but we still did the majority of it.
One of the things that was assigned to the tender folks was removal-repair-reinstallation of the ice caps for our various masts and antennas. The order came from Squadron and it was kind of a big deal at the time. The ice cap served a dual purpose, it protected the mast in the event of us surfacing through the ice and it had a RAM (radar absorbent material) coating adhered to it to significantly decrease its radar cross section.
One fine sunny Friday afternoon I had turned most of my division loose and was catching up on my admin crap. I get called topside to see a tiny young female petty officer (E-4) literally dragging the ice cap for my RDF antenna down to the boat. She informs me(E-6), in no uncertain terms, that I have to assist her with reinstalling the ice cap. In a very professional manner I reminded her about the recent directive from Squadron that stated that the IMA/tender personnel were responsible for that job but that I would be willing to assist her AFTER I inspected the ice cap. She immediately started making noises about sexual harassment first bit of luck for me was that I had a reliable witness in the person of the topside sentry.

When I inspected the ice cap I found several places where the RAM coating was delaminated and starting to peel as well as several damaged places as a result of her dragging it as much as she had done. I pointed those defects out to her and informed her that in no way was that ice cap going back on my antenna in that condition. She went into a tirade about sexual discrimination and harassment and informed me that she was going to report me to her chief and have me written up. I told her to knock herself out and told her she could leave now.
I informed my division officer of the situation and headed up on the tender to pay a visit to the antenna shop chief.

When I walked up to the door of his office I could here the young female petty officer telling her chief all about the terrible things the ET division LPO had said to her and that he had refused to assist in installing the ice cap as well as the sexual harassment comments I had made.
She walked out, saw me and her face pretty well turned white, she turned her back and went off into the shop.

I tapped on the door of the chiefs office and when he looked up you could have knocked me down with a feather. Her chief was a fellow member of the MC I belonged to, lucky break #2. He didn't know I was the subject of the previous conversation and was actually kind of steamed and asked me if I knew who the ET division LPO on my boat was.  "Funny you should ask me that Pops, I mean Chief... I gave him my side of the events and then we went and looked at the ice cap she had taken back aboard the tender, it was even more beat up than when I had looked at it earlier. I think there was actual steam coming out of his ears when he called the young lady back into his office. I almost felt sorry for her...almost.

If I had not been close friends with her chief it was almost a certainty that I would have been written up for sexual harassment and sexual discrimination based on her lies. I WOULD have gone to Captain's Mast and maybe, just maybe, the statement from the topside sentry would have been enough to keep me from losing a strip but the odds were not in my favor. Even in the early '90s the accusation was as good as a conviction.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams