Author Topic: Thy don't hate us. They hate that we are not like them. (It's complicated.)  (Read 979 times)

vaskidmark

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http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-lesson-in-hate-109822568/?all&no-ist

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Qutb concluded that Americans suffered from “a drought of sentimental sympathy” and that “Americans intentionally deride what people in the Old World hold sacred.” .... This became the lens through which Qutb read nearly every American encounter—a clash of New World versus Old. .... “This great America: What is its worth in the scale of human values?” Qutb wondered. “And what does it add to the moral account of humanity?” His answer: nothing. .... The core problem with the United States, for Qutb, was not something Americans did, but simply what America was—“the New World...is spellbinding.” It was more than a land of pleasures without limit. In America, unlike in Egypt, dreams could come true. Qutb understood the danger this posed: America’s dazzle had the power to blind people to the real zenith of civilization, which for Qutb began with Muhammad in the seventh century and reached its apex in the Middle Ages ....

Well, that and the fact that in America one could move beyond one's history and create a new one.  How dare we!  Why, you would never know if you were dealing with a true philosopher (much like the sons of rabbis were expected to be at least as learned and wise as their father) or some upstart who had a better idea and used it to move off the potato farm.

stay safe.
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Hawkmoon

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Quote
the real zenith of civilization, which for Qutb began with Muhammad in the seventh century and reached its apex in the Middle Ages ....

Hmmmm ...

Let's put away the thesaurus and get out the dictionary.

Zenith:
1:  the point of the celestial sphere that is directly opposite the nadir and vertically above the observer — see azimuth illustration

2:  the highest point reached in the heavens by a celestial body

3:  culminating point :  acme <at the zenith of his powers — John Buchan>


Apex:
1: a :  the uppermost point :  vertex <the apex of a mountain>
    b :  the narrowed or pointed end :  tip <the apex of the tongue>

2:  the highest or culminating point <the apex of his career>


First, we have a fundamental problem in that the author uses two words meaning the same thing, and pretends that one of them doesn't mean what it means. Both "zenith" and "apex" mean highest point. How can a "highest point" span a period of several hundred years? What the quoted sentence says, then, is:

"the real high point of civilization, which for Qutb began with Muhammad in the seventh century and reached its high point in the Middle Ages ...."

In other words, it's a logical fallacy.

And then there's the problem of time. There is no scholarly consensus on exactly when the "Middle Ages" began, but the potential dates range from 312 A.D. to around 700 A.D. The ending point for the Middle Ages is variously pegged as having been somewhere between 1341 and 1517. So this Qutb uses 700 as the beginning. But the Middle Ages are generally regarded as being the LOW point of western civilization, the period of know-nothingness between the fall of the Roman Empire and the beginning of the Renaissance. So it looks like our genius really said,

"the real high point of civilization, which for Qutb began with the start of the low point of civilization and reached its high point during the low point ...."

Color me confused.
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Perd Hapley

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Hawkmoon,

On the zenith/apex thing - yeah, bad choice of words. I think it's still fairly clear what he's trying to say. But aren't you more annoyed by the use of "hate" as a noun? That's become as ubiquitous, and annoying, as using "woman" for an adjective.


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But the Middle Ages are generally regarded as being the LOW point of western civilization

In the quoted portion, he speaks of Muhammad, which would clue one in that he's not talking about Christendom, but about the Islamic world. Sure enough, the full sentence concludes with "reached its apex in the Middle Ages, carried triumphantly by Muslim armies." I will grant you, it's a bit confusing, as he's using Western-civ terminology to describe Muslim history.

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Andiron

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Qutb,  you're making it harder and harder for me to disagree with nuking you aholes out of existence...
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RoadKingLarry

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We used to call it "The McDonalds plan" - nuke, pave, put up the Golden Arches, Hard to beat a glass paved, self lighting parking lot.

 This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.
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brimic

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Qutb,  you're making it harder and harder for me to disagree with nuking you aholes out of existence...
+1
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griz

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Apex, high, low.  You are over thinking the whole thing.  Here is the zenith of it:

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In America, unlike in Egypt, dreams could come true.

The problem is there are opportunities in America, can't have that.
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MechAg94

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It seems to me the height of civilization in the Middle East would be better centered sometime during the height of the Persion Empire.  The only reason this guy thinks it was better is his religion. 
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MechAg94

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Skimming through the article, it seems like this guy was already set up to hate us before he ever set foot in the US.  Other than that, it sounds like he just hates general freedom and religious freedom. In any other culture, he would just be some crackpot.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

brimic

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Skimming through the article, it seems like this guy was already set up to hate us before he ever set foot in the US.  Other than that, it sounds like he just hates general freedom and religious freedom. In any other culture, he would just be some crackpot.

Shades of Ted Kazinski.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama