Buckle Up Baby Jesus, this is going to get bumpy!!!

[Scout26]

Exactly. Katrina showed us what LE would do 

I think the Katrina operation had a positive effect on most LE.   It jarred many agencies into a "hey, what the hell are doing/thinking"  mentality.  It started the entire conversation on this issue.  And remember that quite a few states passed "No confiscation of firearms during an emergency" laws in the short time after.   


I'd be interested in hearing from APS'ers in NY and CT as how the bans/registrations are working there.  I've heard that upto 90% of all EBR's weren't registered.  So the questions would be:

"Do you friends still take their unregistered EBR's out to the range or to shoot?" 

"Does anyone check to see if they are registered?"

"Do you know of any arrests for having an unregistered EBR?"

[KD5NRH]

Has it EVER happened in living memory where someone who was PO'ed at the police walked up to the police milling around outside the perimeter just manning a squad car and roadblock and unloaded? I'm not talking about a few pops from a Hi-Point (well, even then!) but a string of aimed fire from a rifle with an optic?

That's the thing that POs me about the whole "your rights aren't as important as me going home at the end of the shift" attitude; even with all their "precautions" a small but ruthless group with lever action rifles could slaughter an entire department using a plan so simple it's pathetic.  Distract (handful of firecrackers and maybe a bullet through a window at some high priority location like the chief's house or a hospital) wait for maximum response, then engage with aimed fire from 3-4 points outside their perimeter just about the time they're starting to relax.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

That's the thing that POs me about the whole "your rights aren't as important as me going home at the end of the shift" attitude; even with all their "precautions" a small but ruthless group with lever action rifles could slaughter an entire department using a plan so simple it's pathetic.  Distract (handful of firecrackers and maybe a bullet through a window at some high priority location like the chief's house or a hospital) wait for maximum response, then engage with aimed fire from 3-4 points outside their perimeter just about the time they're starting to relax.

That. And the fact it is a job one "applies" for. You wanted to be in LE. So, either they want to be special, or have not thought it through that at some point in their career they might be shot at. The prevalent culture in LE to view themselves as some kind of "military", non civilian force is rampant.

[KD5NRH]

That. And the fact it is a job one "applies" for. You wanted to be in LE. So, either they want to be special, or have not thought it through that at some point in their career they might be shot at.

More importantly, unlike the military, a cop can turn in his badge and go find another job at any time, so not thinking about it beforehand is no excuse.

[roo_ster]

More importantly, unlike the military, a cop can turn in his badge and go find another job at any time, so not thinking about it beforehand is no excuse.

We have a winner! 

I go out of my way to correct LEOs who refer to non-LEOs as "civilians." 

"So, what branch of hte armed forces are you and your police department a member of?"

[Ben]

I go out of my way to correct LEOs who refer to non-LEOs as "civilians." 

"So, what branch of hte armed forces are you and your police department a member of?"

Pet peeve of mine as well. Not just because it is incorrectly attributed, but because it causes people on both sides of the blue line to look at each other differently.

[MechAg94]

I would add a few things:

1.  This discussion underscores that you need to support your gun rights organizations that are lobbying and fighting right now.  It is much much cheaper and easier to spare some cash now versus after the fact.  You might think about that the next time you get that junk mail.  

2.  Our entire law enforcement and domestic security apparatus is highly dispersed among many departments and governments.  Trying to predict whether they will all line up with tyranny or not is impossible.  They aren't all libertarians, but they are not all jack boots either.

3.  Judging by the non-compliance with assault weapon bans in New York State, it won't just be a few thousand gun owners being rounded up.  It will be more like 80 million.  More likely a large number of states will not comply.  I just think a whole lot of things would have to change quite a bit to allow something like this to happen.  Maybe I am judging that based on being in a smaller town in Texas.

[seeker_two]

ISIS, Taliban, IRA, Mujhadeen, Weathermen, Black Panthers, French Resistance, Bolsheviks.....

....doesn't take too many people who are willing to fight to disrupt a government....

[just Warren]

Hell, just a few dozen Special Forces dudes would cause all manner of problems.

[KD5NRH]

3.  Judging by the non-compliance with assault weapon bans in New York State, it won't just be a few thousand gun owners being rounded up.  It will be more like 80 million.  More likely a large number of states will not comply.  I just think a whole lot of things would have to change quite a bit to allow something like this to happen.  Maybe I am judging that based on being in a smaller town in Texas.

This, and more importantly, most of these small towns where gun ownership per capita is quite a bit higher than average also depend on the sheriff for SWAT type actions.  That means his team will be handling everything in the county and cities, so you'd be looking at 10-12 SWAT officers to go door to door on 12,500 households totaling 33,000 people.  Even if they split into three four man squads and did a search every 30 minutes, 24x7, it would take most of a year to get it done.  During that time, I would bet there would be a lot of people setting up some very effective resistance.  All of this assumes the (elected, and by people who like the 2nd Amendment) sheriff is even willing to help with a confiscation.

[Andiron]

We have a winner! 

I go out of my way to correct LEOs who refer to non-LEOs as "civilians." 

"So, what branch of hte armed forces are you and your police department a member of?"

I love doing that too.  Pisses off the right people.

[T.O.M.]

This, and more importantly, most of these small towns where gun ownership per capita is quite a bit higher than average also depend on the sheriff for SWAT type actions.  That means his team will be handling everything in the county and cities, so you'd be looking at 10-12 SWAT officers to go door to door on 12,500 households totaling 33,000 people.  Even if they split into three four man squads and did a search every 30 minutes, 24x7, it would take most of a year to get it done.  During that time, I would bet there would be a lot of people setting up some very effective resistance.  All of this assumes the (elected, and by people who like the 2nd Amendment) sheriff is even willing to help with a confiscation.

And this also assumes that there are no injunctions issued by courts to cease and desist the searches, or a suspension of 4A to legally permit a house-by-house search, which would get a lot of libs fired up.  

All of this is why I truly believe that confiscation searches on this scale won't happen.  Too many problems across the board.  And, if they tried, can't you imagine a lot of unregistered firearms would disappear before they got to the owner's home?  Hell, guns aren't like drugs or explosives.  Never heard of a gun sniffing dog.  So they would have to rip out the walls, tear up the floors, etc to check everywhere possible.  I would hope that level of searching would get everyone fired up, especially a bunch of lawyers and judges.  Yep, gotta set asiee the Constitution and eliminate judicial oversight...

Absent a declaration of the First American Empire, not bloody likely.

[Perd Hapley]

That. And the fact it is a job one "applies" for. You wanted to be in LE. So, either they want to be special, or have not thought it through that at some point in their career they might be shot at. The prevalent culture in LE to view themselves as some kind of "military", non civilian force is rampant.

The "my safety first" attitude doesn't make sense for the military either. Though it's been tried.

[Perd Hapley]

We have a winner! 

I go out of my way to correct LEOs who refer to non-LEOs as "civilians." 

"So, what branch of hte armed forces are you and your police department a member of?"

The city of St Louis just recently created a non-LE review board to scrutinize any future shootings of unarmedblackteenagers. Guess what it's called? 

[KD5NRH]

All of this is why I truly believe that confiscation searches on this scale won't happen.  Too many problems across the board.  And, if they tried, can't you imagine a lot of unregistered firearms would disappear before they got to the owner's home?

And how many of those gun owners would also decide it's worth losing that rusty, unreliable old Raven .25 to go plant it in some anti-gun activist's house and call in an anonymous tip?

[lee n. field]

I would add a few things:

1.  This discussion underscores that you need to support your gun rights organizations that are lobbying and fighting right now.  It is much much cheaper and easier to spare some cash now versus after the fact.  You might think about that the next time you get that junk mail.  

Thank you for reminding me.  In honor of our POTUS, B. Hussein 0bama, I re-upped my Illinois Carry supporting subscription.

[dogmush]

The "my safety first" attitude doesn't make sense for the military either. Though it's been tried.

Heh.  The military's attitude is "Your safety first, whether you want it or not!".  And it makes zero sense.

The city of St Louis just recently created a non-LE review board to scrutinize any future shootings of unarmedblackteenagers. Guess what it's called?  Face Palm!

The Didndunufin Confirmation Board?

[lee n. field]

The city of St Louis just recently created a non-LE review board to scrutinize any future shootings of unarmedblackteenagers. Guess what it's called? 

Special Task Force Unicorn, because there ain't no such?

[RoadKingLarry]

http://kfor.com/2015/12/08/we-as-a-nation-are-under-attack-oklahoma-sheriff-asking-all-eligible-citizens-to-bear-arms/

A few bright spots in an otherwise bleak future for this country.

[De Selby]

You all are thinking about this through the wrong lens.

The government won't suspend rights and come knocking over guns - they'll do it in the name of stopping terrorists, and many of you will cheer them on until they arrive at your doors.

The Government already can and has thrown citizens in the gulag with no oversight.  The only question for future governments is the scale of gulagging they want to do.  Those powers were supported by some even here on APS, because at the time they were only used against scary Muslims. 

[TommyGunn]

You all are thinking about this through the wrong lens.

The government won't suspend rights and come knocking over guns - they'll do it in the name of stopping terrorists, and many of you will cheer them on until they arrive at your doors.

Yeah, right .... they're gonna visit all 330 million of us.  I'd like to see the math on that; how many federal agents X how many visits per day X how many houses per day = ? ? ? ? ?  ?  ? ? ? ?

The Government already can and has thrown citizens in the gulag with no oversight.  The only question for future governments is the scale of gulagging they want to do.  Those powers were supported by some even here on APS, because at the time they were only used against scary Muslims.  

"Scary Muslims?''' You mean the ones chopping off the heads of Christians??  ---'cause  that's pretty scary.
Or Tashfeen & Sayed, the San Bernardino  shoot 'em up team .... because that is also scary.  Not as scary as decapitation in a way but probably a lot more effective.
Or the "peaceful Muslims."  

[De Selby]

Jailing millions of people is well within reach for the government.  They do it every year.

[Perd Hapley]

St Louis's non-LE review board is called the Civilian Oversight Board. I guess Citizen Oversight Board didn't make a good enough acronym.

[TommyGunn]

Jailing millions of people is well within reach for the government.  They do it every year.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

330 million is the entire population of America.

How does the govt.  imprison everyone? 

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

330 million is the entire population of America.

How does the govt.  imprison everyone? 

With liberal math, it works.