Henry Kissinger Iraq Comments

[slzy]

many sources are quoting henry that the iraq war is no longer winable. i saw it scroll on tv,but have'nt seen or heard discussion. the article can be found at yahoo news.

[Standing Wolf]

I had no idea that old bum was still alive.

[Guest]

Henry who?

[meinbruder]

Kissinger said it was no longer winnable?  Asia minor has been at war, in infinite forms, for more than three thousand years.  Iraq and Iran have been squabbling about which one represents the remains of the Persian Empire for the last thirty years alone.  Saddam even proclaimed himself the Persian Emperor on the witness stand.  Was it ever winnable?

Now that that question is on the table, what would constitute a win?  A democracy springs forth from a thirteenth century feudal society?  Thats not going to happen!  Even if all the Iraqi people all get on one end of the rope and pull in the same direction there will still be an assortment of foreign fighters and fundamentalist zealots killing people at random.  Dont forget, the rope is tied to a post called the Koran. 
}:)>

[MechAg94]

Come on, Saddam at the very least had a 20th Century Dictatorship going.   

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Didn't Kissinger say much the same thing before delivering Vietnam into the hands of mass murderers (winning a Nobel Peace Prize in the process)?

 

[280plus]

Just what we need, more defeatist talk. This is not VN Mr Kissinger and it's not about rubber trees. It's  not ALL about oil either, it's about how soon one of these bastards gets their hands on a nuke and sets it off somewhere where there's a lot of people around. Don't think they aren't trying their best right now. NYC, LA, London take your pick. I've always thought Hollywood would be a good choice myself. 

[Ron]

We already won the Iraq war.

Looks like we are going to fail in transforming them into a civil society.

That is Iraq's loss not ours.

[Werewolf]

Now that that question is on the table, what would constitute a win?

Since this ISN'T the highroad...

The best way to solve a problem is to eliminate the source of the problem. Unfortunately at times the problem can be so big that it becomes necessary to toss out the baby with the bath water.

Clean the place out. Nuclear or chemical (chemical preferred - the short term stuff so the infrastructure remains). Don't stop at Iraq - clear out Iran too. Let the buzzards feast for about 6 months or so.

In the intermission between destruction and waiting for the buzzards to do their job...

Let the rest of the unciivilized dictatorships in the world know they're next on the list if they decide to get froggy or complain too loudly. Tell the Euros to shut up and get back to watching their porn commercials on TV and keeping the sheople happy that make up their populations.

Once the buzzards have gotten fat, dumb and happy enough establish the area as a US protectorate. Setup something similar to the homestead laws the US had in the 1800's to encourage adventurous types from the US and Europe to move in and repopulate (if we let the Euros in it'll shut the greedy SOB's up) - however, no sheople allowed - homesteading ought to solve the sheople problem. Once the population levels reach some pre-determined point and the economies become mostly self supporting establish a US style constitutional republic and turn the area loose with guarantees of military protection and economic trade by and with the US.

In 25 or so years you'll have thriving, economically strong republics where there used to be barbaric dictatorships.

Of course this will never happen (no cajones and a congenital inability of politicians to see further into the future than the end of their peckers) and instead in 25 years we'll still be fighting the radical islamists. Oh well at least the times will remain intersting.

[The Rabbi]

Look at it this way:
If we pull out/strategically reposition/cut 'n' run then what will happen?  It'll be a mess for a while and then we'll have to back in.

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

Whether we stay or go, that country and that part of the world always be a mess. 

[cordex]

Let's just go ahead and assume that we are - as a nation - not willing to resort to the Werewolf Plan for Systematic Genocide and Careless Mass Murder of Everyone in the Middle East.  The whole "final solution" concept just kind of goes against the grain, you know?

Whether we stay or go, that country and that part of the world always be a mess. 

Very true.

[Werewolf]

Let's just go ahead and assume that we are - as a nation - not willing to resort to the Werewolf Plan for Systematic Genocide and Careless Mass Murder of Everyone in the Middle East.  The whole "final solution" concept just kind of goes against the grain, you know?

Hey! It worked for the Romans... 

[LAK]

Henry is to the geo-political agenda what the Chairman of the Fed is to "money" in this country. When he speaks, the puppets listen. Look for our troop presence in Iraq to begin to diminish.

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[Eleven Mike]

Look for our troop presence in Iraq to begin to diminish.

  I don't see it.  The administration seems to have been trying to reduce troop levels all year.  Yet, it seems every time they try, they have to extend a unit's tour or ship over more troops that hadn't been scheduled.

[Dannyboy]

We already won the Iraq war.

Looks like we are going to fail in transforming them into a civil society.

That is Iraq's loss not ours.

Reminds me of the saying, "You can't polish a turd."

[crt360]

Reminds me of the saying, "You can't polish a turd."

. . . or make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[Leatherneck]

Hey! It worked for the Romans...  grin

But where are the Romans today?

Genocide on any achievable scale in the ME would absolutely commit the rest of Islam to the destruction of America. And today, they have the technology (nukes, airplanes, travel, the internet, etc>) to make that possible. I fear the only answer lies in the realms of education and politics, and we seem clueless as to how to pursue such a solution, as do the Iraqis.

I personally believe that the most viable solution for Iraq is to partition it and leave in place a permanent (or at least, long-term) 911 force in Kurdistan and Baghdad.

TC

[Werewolf]

Hey! It worked for the Romans...  grin

But where are the Romans today?

A better question would be "how long did the Romans survive after wiping out their mortal enemies the Carthaginians"?

Answer: About 600 years or so.

Genocide really isn't the answer - yet - but it may very well come to that.

As you point out Leatherneck:

I fear the only answer lies in the realms of education and politics...

is currently the path best taken but I don't hold out much hope for success. Iraq was secular but now regardless of their constitution is essentially a Theocracy. Iran is a true theocracy. Theocracies indoctrinate their people from birth in the tenets of the ruling religion. Indoctrination is difficult if not impossible to overcome. Thus your suggestion to:

partition it and leave in place a permanent (or at least, long-term) 911 force in Kurdistan and Baghdad.

is IMO what will eventually happen if the US stays in Iraq. If not the country will slip into civil war and the Iranians and/or the Syrians will step in and take over.  In either event the power and wealth of states that are with out doubt enemies of the USA will increase. Next time around the war will not be so easy to win.

I find it difficult to understand why we cannot acknowledge that we are involved in the first stages of a culture war where the east wants nothing more than to absorb the west and wipe out its way of life. People can say that it is only the radical Islamists that want that but when the rest of them stand by and do nothing to control their radical elements then they might as well be their willing allies.

We're not in a knock down drag out war yet but we will eventually be - its not a matter of if but when.

[Ezekiel]

Which, of course, directly underscores the senseless act of our invasion and makes American deaths there meaningless.

QUAGMIRE

Where have I heard that before?   

Whether we stay or go, that country and that part of the world always be a mess.

[The Rabbi]

Which, of course, directly underscores the senseless act of our invasion and makes American deaths there meaningless.

QUAGMIRE

Where have I heard that before?   

Where have you heard that before?  You have heard that from the moment Americans set boots on Iraqi soil.  The media have played that note from the very beginning.  It wasn't true then and it isnt true now.  Merely saying the word like a magical incantation doesn't make it so.

[Ezekiel]

Absolutely correct.  It is the inherent -- and ongoing -- military and political cluster that makes it so.

Thanks for reminding me. 

Merely saying the word [quagmire] like a magical incantation doesn't make it so.

[Waitone]

Kissinger, now there is a blast out of the past.  He record is spotty at best.  His financial interests will no doubt bring into question his judgment.  His ideology casts a pall over his political pronouncements.  The elites don't like what's going on in Iraq so they haul out the internationalist establishment.  The very people who gave us a non-victory in Korea, a loss in Vietnam, and a whatever in Bosnia are all now trying to help us in Iraq.  I do not get a warm and fuzzy feeling when the like of Kissinger and Pa Bush's advisers ride into town.  I've seen their act before and was not impressed.

Other than that Kissinger's opinion is just as valuable as any other opinion.

[Lobotomy Boy]

Kissinger was a driving force behind the Bush-Cheney stance that "the only viable exit strategy is victory." He's been advising both of them on their Iraq policy for years, and he's been trying to fix the mistakes he made in Vietnam through them. Lately he's been one of the last administration insider who still pushed for a victory. Now that he's changed his tune, there can be no doubt that the administration will start working on some sort of withdrawal plan, because with Henry the K. bailing on the Administration's disasterous Iraq policy, the president's dog Barney will be jumping that sinking ship in short order. You can bet that our troops will be out of Iraq before the 2008 election cycle begins.

[Mannlicher]

actually he is a good resource for the Prez to use. (sorry for the cute abbreviation Mike Eleven). 
I mean, now many folks around actually have experience in selling out the Military, and orchestrating a cut and run withdrawal?   He can show how to sit down with your enemy, and give away the farm.  He can explain how you can take what your enemy says with a straight face, and then sign on the dotted line.