Author Topic: Elderly Woman Killed; 3 APD Officers Wounded (Read 6378 times)

One of Many · « **Reply #25 on:** November 22, 2006, 03:51:28 PM »

On the national TV news, the police said that an undercover drug buy had been made at that house earlier in the afternoon. It was not clear whether the drug buy was made inside the house, or just at the address, but on the lawn or sidewalk.

garyk/nm · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:11:08 PM »

Quote from: One of Many on November 22, 2006, 02:51:28 PM

On the national TV news, the police said that an undercover drug buy had been made at that house earlier in the afternoon. It was not clear whether the drug buy was made inside the house, or just at the address, but on the lawn or sidewalk.

Interesting point. One that can brought up at the MURDER trial for those yo-yos involved. NOT as an excuse to avoid prosecution!

MechAg94 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2006, 06:29:26 PM »

I also heard the buy was made from an "unidentified" male who was not at the house at the time of the raid. They refused to say any details about the buy.

They also said they found some unidentified drugs. In the press conference video I saw, they refused to say what the nature of those drugs were. Probably prescription drugs from a 92 year old woman.

Basically, anything they didn't want to answer was "under investigation".

Hopefully, this will lead to some legal changes. I doubt it though.

HankB · « **Reply #28 on:** November 23, 2006, 08:41:53 AM »

Today's Austin, TX newspaper stated that a drug buy had been made earlier at the house from an unidentified male. So far, so good.

But then it stated that plainclothes officers broke the door down, which prompted the shooting. They allegedly had a warrant.

If this was in fact the case, note that officers in plain clothes are, by definition, NOT readily identifiable as police. Persons, not readily identifiable as police, are, IMHO legitimate targets for any homeowner who's experiencing a break in.

Period.

Ben · « **Reply #29 on:** November 24, 2006, 06:13:26 PM »

Hopefully this doesn't take us on too much of a topic drift.

I'm generally not thrilled when I see topics go into "cop bashing". At the same time, I am very much against "no-knock" warrants. I consider myself pretty conservative (actually I usually say I'm a "Republitarian"), and to me, part of that philosophy is the whole "private property rights, 'my home is my castle' " line of reasoning.

So here I am reading this thread, and agreeing with most of the posts regarding this poor woman. Then I go browse here, where I'm a lurker:
http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=112886

A "right wing, conservative" forum. Pretty much every post makes this woman out to be an evil drug dealer, and the one person who indirectly suggests she might have been defending herself in her own home is berated as a left wing liberal. Makes me feel pretty out of touch with conservatives. The direction of that thread is something I'd expect from Statists, not people who are supposed to believe in individual rights and small government.

Nightfall · « **Reply #30 on:** November 24, 2006, 06:52:12 PM »

Just as "liberal" once meant something else politically in this nation, perhaps we're seeing the end of our definition of "conservative."

Leatherneck · « **Reply #31 on:** November 25, 2006, 03:55:11 AM »

Yep. Can't hardly tell a Liberal from a Conservative any more. The two-party system does not serve us well any more. I don't know what should replace it.

TC

Jamisjockey · « **Reply #32 on:** November 25, 2006, 04:59:08 AM »

Quote from: Leatherneck on November 25, 2006, 02:55:11 AM

Yep. Can't hardly tell a Liberal from a Conservative any more. The two-party system does not serve us well any more. I don't know what should replace it.

TC

I do.
http://www.lp.org/
We actually have a multi party system thats been dominated by the two parties, and controlled by them at the higher levels.
PS, my long term ambitions have always been to run for public office.

Sindawe · « **Reply #33 on:** November 25, 2006, 09:36:31 AM »

Quote

I do.
http://www.lp.org/

What? Are you proposing ONE party rule? Much as I concur with most of the Libertarian Party's platform, I won't go for having them rule alone.

I think this nation (indeed the species as a whole) needs to implement a Bureau of Sabotage before we loose ALL control of our governments.

MechAg94 · « **Reply #34 on:** November 25, 2006, 11:20:05 AM »

I am conservative and I have never heard of that site. There are a lot of people who consider themselves conservative, but are mainly just social conservatives. Smaller govt and individual freedom are afterthoughts.

MechAg94 · « **Reply #35 on:** November 25, 2006, 11:29:21 AM »

To me this case is a classic example of when posters are NOT cop bashing, but seriously questioning the tactics and behavior of the police in question.

- Was the drug buy in front of the house or inside it?
- Who was the unidentified male? Connection to the lady?
- What were the unidentified drugs found? If it was pot or crack, I bet they would have said so.
- Why did plainclothes officers execute the warrant? Why was a no-knock authorized?
- Why didn't they raid the house soon after the buy instead of in the middle of the night? These raids in the wee hours of the morning really bother me.
- Why wasn't some survailence done to the point that they knew whether or not the "unidentified" male was in the house or not?

Maybe I am expecting too much.

For me personally: My main concern is that even if they yelled "POLICE" before breaking down my door, all I am likely hear is the door coming down when I wake up. I doubt I would have any idea who it was coming into my house.

HankB · « **Reply #36 on:** November 25, 2006, 04:16:25 PM »

Quote from: MechAg94 on November 25, 2006, 10:29:21 AM

. . . My main concern is that even if they yelled "POLICE" before breaking down my door, all I am likely hear is the door coming down when I wake up. . . .

Even if you heard someone yelling "POLICE" you have no idea whether or not they really ARE police or not if they're not wearing uniforms. There have been SEVERAL instances of fake police invading homes and robbing/raping the folks inside.

Latest newspaper report says the cops were serving a "no knock" warrant for an unidentified "John Doe" at the address. The little old lady managed to get off six rounds from a revolver before being killed by the intruders. Police claim they found drugs in the house, but haven't ~~decided~~ stated what type or where they were found.

Dannyboy · « **Reply #37 on:** November 26, 2006, 04:20:08 AM »

Quote from: HankB on November 25, 2006, 03:16:25 PM

Police claim they found drugs in the house, but haven't ~~decided~~ stated what type or where they were found.

Which is really odd. Normally, they would be waving that crap all over the place to show that they didn't screw up and were at the right place. Especially if they just killed the homeowner. The fact that they haven't announced anything about what they found tells me that they didn't find much of anything. Probably the same as they found in Cory Maye's house, a half smoked joint.

Otherguy Overby · « **Reply #38 on:** November 26, 2006, 07:29:04 AM »

Quote

Probably the same as they found in Cory Maye's house, a half smoked joint.

No, they found smoking guns in both cases...

MechAg94 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 26, 2006, 01:42:40 PM »

I agree HankB. They were pretty dang evasive on that when asked specifically about the drugs found in that press conference.

All this stuff may have good explanations and this lady was the Godmother of the neighborhood, but the lack of information and the evasivness/vague answers of the PD about key facts just make me naturally suspicious.

Gun Runner · « **Reply #40 on:** November 26, 2006, 02:02:37 PM »

Poor old woman really should've had an AR15. sad

Eleven Mike · « **Reply #41 on:** November 27, 2006, 05:12:54 AM »

Quote

A "right wing, conservative" forum. Pretty much every post makes this woman out to be an evil drug dealer, and the one person who indirectly suggests she might have been defending herself in her own home is berated as a left wing liberal. Makes me feel pretty out of touch with conservatives. The direction of that thread is something I'd expect from Statists, not people who are supposed to believe in individual rights and small government.

That's an exageration. I just scanned that thread, and they're having a fairly healthy discussion over there, with more diverse points of view than this one. FWIW, my ill-informed guess is that the cops were at fault here, but I won't make more of a judgement without more facts.

Ben · « **Reply #42 on:** November 27, 2006, 05:36:27 AM »

Quote

That's an exageration.

They're having a fairly healthy discussion NOW. When I posted my comment it was much more one-sided.

L · « **Reply #43 on:** November 27, 2006, 01:37:10 PM »

When one is fighting for one's own life, you will be amazed at what one is capable of.

MechAg94 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 27, 2006, 03:15:25 PM »

There weren't that many one-sided posts before the discussion opened up. It was an exageration. I have seen one-sided stretches thehighroad.org any number of times.

garyk/nm · « **Reply #45 on:** November 27, 2006, 04:05:46 PM »

Someone please remind me why it is that we're denying living in a Police State?

Ben · « **Reply #46 on:** November 27, 2006, 04:11:15 PM »

Quote

There weren't that many one-sided posts before the discussion opened up.

Let's see, 19 posts before I posted here. There were 2 that either favored the woman or felt bad for her, 3 speculative posts, and 10 that sided with the police simply because they're the police, or suggested the woman was a drug dealer or in some other way got what was coming to her for shooting at the police when they broke down her door.

Dannyboy · « **Reply #47 on:** November 27, 2006, 05:20:51 PM »

Wow. The APD is screwed! Now the informant they used to justify the raid is saying he was told to lie about buying drugs at the old lady's house. Balko has the details at www.theagitator.com.

LadySmith · « **Reply #48 on:** November 27, 2006, 10:03:39 PM »

That is extremely bad/sad. WHY?!? Let the speculation continue...
Count me in the camp that admires her for going down fighting and deeply disturbed that she had to go down at all. What a friggin' world.

HiroProX · « **Reply #49 on:** November 27, 2006, 10:45:45 PM »

Quote from: Dannyboy on November 22, 2006, 08:39:33 AM

So much for Scalia's "professionalism."

The infamous quote "I am the only person in this room, that I know of, professional enough to carry a Glock .40" comes to mind.

News:

Author Topic: Elderly Woman Killed; 3 APD Officers Wounded (Read 6378 times)