Author Topic: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter  (Read 2618 times)

Ben

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Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« on: November 24, 2006, 05:58:17 PM »
I found this story interesting (not that we don't have our own defense contract problems in the US). Mostly because I ran into a guy on a dive boat a few weeks ago that is on loan to the US Air Force from Britain as a tactical analyst for fighter configurations. He told me he had been a bit involved in the Typhoon from the British side and he had unbelievable stories about what a Charlie Foxtrot the whole joint effort was. A glaring example was that apparently the Germans have a slick method to construct and attach the Typhoon wings. So is that what the Germans do in the project? No -- they were directed to hand the tech specs to (IIRC) the Italians and the Spanish. Spain constructs the wing for one side, Italy constructs the wing for the other side, and neither of them have the experience the Germans do in the process.

He kept mentioning the whole "charity project" thing just like this article. I'm not sure I'd be raising my hand to pilot this aircraft...


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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/24/ndefence124.xml

Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter

By Neil Tweedie
Last Updated: 2:07am GMT 25/11/2006

The Government threw down the gauntlet to the makers of the Eurofighter yesterday, warning that it would no longer tolerate industrial inefficiencies that had effectively turned the project into a "charity".
    
The Eurofighter
The cost of a single Eurofighter: £66.7 million

The attack came as new figures suggested that the cost of buying 232 Eurofighters for the RAF is set to top £20 billion  making it far and away the most costly weapons project ever undertaken by Britain.

Figures released by the National Audit Office, the official spending watchdog, put the current price of a single Eurofighter, known as Typhoon in the RAF, at £66.7 million. That compares to a forecast price tag in 2003 of £56.8 million.

In a press conference coinciding with the release of the NAO's annual report on major Ministry of Defence projects, Lord Drayson, the minister for defence procurement, criticised the four-nation European consortium, describing it as "not fit for purpose".

Ominously, he refused to confirm that the RAF would be allowed to buy the third and final batch of the 232 aircraft order, totalling 88 aircraft.
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Loss of some or all of the "Tranche 3" aircraft would threaten hundreds of jobs at BAE plants in Lancashire.

"The current structure of the national collaboration and the industrial collaboration is not fit for purpose," said Lord Drayson, who criticised Eurofighter for charging too much for spares and the use of aircraft to test the new advanced air-to-air missile, Meteor.

The company, he said, had to be restructured if the RAF was to receive adequate support during the fighter's operational career.

Sir Peter Spencer, the civil servant in charge of procurement, was equally uncompromising, saying: "We are going to turn this charity into a business  and a cost-effective business.

"We are not prepared to pay inflated prices for risks we believe should be under the control of industry."

For the second year running the MoD has been allowed by Parliament to exclude crucial figures on the Eurofighter from the NAO report to protect its bargaining position with the consortium.

The most important is the "current forecast cost" of the entire project to the taxpayer. In 2003 it was £19.67 billion. Increases in labour costs and changes to software will easily take that figure higher if Tranche 3 is bought.

Military experts said the temptation for the Government to cut some or all of Tranche 3 must be enormous, given the pressures on the defence budget caused by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The MoD has not yet signed the final contract committing itself to the purchase. Asked about Tranche 3, Lord Drayson said: "We are absolutely interested in negotiating."

Critics of Eurofighter-Typhoon argue that it is a Cold War relic that has consumed far too much of the MoD's scarce resources.

Conceived 20 years ago to combat agile Soviet fighters, the aircraft, made by Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain, is only now entering squadron service after delays and doubts over its future. The RAF wants to use it in Afghanistan next year.
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Stand_watie

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2006, 06:34:09 PM »
...A glaring example was that apparently the Germans have a slick method to construct and attach the Typhoon wings. So is that what the Germans do in the project?...

I'm not a huge fan of most things German. That said, to give credit where I think it's due, I think that when it comes to engineering and fabricating reliable machinery, they have an excellent track record (along with the Swiss, the Swedes, and the Japanese).

Disregarding obvious beneficial cultural strengths for the sake of multi-cultural "fairness" in government is foolishness, IMHO.
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Sylvilagus Aquaticus

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2006, 08:21:55 PM »
That's ok; it'll never be combat tested.

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Leatherneck

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2006, 03:50:46 AM »
Quote
Figures released by the National Audit Office, the official spending watchdog, put the current price of a single Eurofighter, known as Typhoon in the RAF, at £66.7 million. That compares to a forecast price tag in 2003 of £56.8 million.
Pikers. The USAF is paying three times as much for each F-22. Hell, want a bargain? The program to replace the Presidential helicopter ("Marine One") is a $7,000,000,000 program. That will buy 23 helicopters. You do the math.

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MechAg94

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2006, 11:59:57 AM »
I am curious as to the operational capability of the F-22 versus the EuroFighter.  I have heard the F-22 has performed remarkably well.

Isn't Britain involved in the Joint Strike Fighter? 
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El Tejon

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2006, 01:13:39 PM »
In Heaven the Germans are the mechanics.

In Hell they are the police. police  <==finally a use for this thing!
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Preacherman

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2006, 01:42:50 PM »
And while on the subject . . . from the Times, London (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9067-2470706,00.html):

Quote
November 25, 2006

Pilotless fighter plan gets £200m

David Robertson, Business Correspondent

Within the next two weeks the Ministry of Defence will award BAE Systems a £200 million contract to create the UKs first unmanned fighter jet, The Times has learnt.

The project will contract BAE to develop a technical demonstrator version of the aircraft. This will be a full working model with weapons and targeting systems, which will then form the base design for a future generation of fighters.

The £175 million to £200 million contract is thought to be the largest experimental project financed by the MoD since it funded the development of the Eurofighter Typhoon. BAE is leading the project with Rolls-Royce, Smiths Industries and QinetiQ as partners.

Western armed forces are increasingly using technology to remove humans from harms way, and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) are likely to be a key element of this.

They are already operating in Iraq and Afghanistan, supporting soldiers and pilots with surveillance and reconnaissance images.

The MoD has made UAV technology a strategic priority.  The Defence Industrial Strategy (DIS), published last year, says that UAV technology must be developed in the UK. It is too important for the UK to rely on buying the technology from elsewhere.

The DIS also reveals that the MoD is planning to replace fighter pilots with computer-flown planes in about 30 years, once the current Eurofighter Typhoon and the proposed Joint Strike Fighter reach the end of their lives.
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Leatherneck

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 02:49:37 AM »
UCAVs give me heartburn; no onboard battle computer has ever been demonstrated, and while theoretically possible, I think we're a long way away from a computer/program that will be able to adapt to the myriad air combat situations and win.

On the other hand, an air-combat UCAV loses the constraints imposed on the fighter by virtue of having a soft pink body inside: like 9g turns. An opponent able to turn square 20g turns at 500 knots would be tough to beat in a dogfight. Fun stuff, though.

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m1911owner

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2006, 08:39:49 PM »
One wing made in Spain, the other in Italy???!!  shocked  shocked  shocked

And who exactly is insane enough to climb into the cockpit of this thing???

Ron

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2006, 03:45:51 AM »
Quote
And who exactly is insane enough to climb into the cockpit of this thing???

A Frenchman?

Preacherman

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2006, 05:01:58 AM »
No indeed.  The French, in an unusually intelligent display of military decision-making, are sticking with their own Dassault Rafale aircraft.  The Eurofighter/Typhoon is to serve with Germany, Italy and England, with other nations considering it.
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roscoe

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 12:54:26 PM »
People hassle the French, but they are really the Americans of Europe: unafraid to irritate the hell out of everybody by going their own way. Even if wrong. Like the Americans.

MechAg94

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Re: Minister furious over £20bn bill for Eurofighter
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2006, 05:50:19 AM »
That is the difference.  Americans are always right!!  Cheesy
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge