Author Topic: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election  (Read 14533 times)

grampster

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Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« on: May 10, 2016, 10:09:22 PM »

From Author Brad Thor:

Dear friends:

I have taken a stance, which I know is unpopular with some of you, and which I feel I owe it to you to fully explain.

Throughout history, charismatic figures have appeared at critical moments in time. Some of these figures have advanced their nations. Some have set them back. Only with the benefit of hindsight is mankind able to make the final judgment.

I have long been a fan of the saying - History doesn’t repeat, but it does rhyme. In other words, history leaves clues; lessons that we can all benefit from.

We are stewards of our Republic and as such, our greatest responsibility is not to ourselves, or any political party, but to the next generation of Americans. We must work tirelessly to see to it that they inherit a freer, stronger, safer, more prosperous nation than was handed to us.

To truly fulfill that obligation we must be selfless, and above all, we must be informed. We must understand the mechanics of politics, economics, and the framework that has allowed the United States to be the greatest nation in the history of the world.

As an American, my greatest allegiance is to liberty. As long as there is liberty, no task is insurmountable, no challenge too overwhelming. As long as there is liberty, anything is possible.

The true north of my compass has been, and always will be, liberty. I owe it to those who have come before me and those who will come after. I will act to safeguard liberty no matter what personal price I may be forced to bear.

Liberty is my litmus test. I weigh all actions of my government and those who seek office, against it. The ledger of freedom is incorruptible; its pages open for anyone to examine, and most importantly - to learn from.

At great personal and professional expense, I have grown more vocal over the years about the need to reduce the size of government and place in office fellow citizens guided strictly by the Founding documents.

I have spoken on television, radio, and in front of civic organizations. I have campaigned for candidates, marched in Tea Party rallies, and was the man who drove Andrew Breitbart to Madison, Wisconsin to speak alongside him on the capitol steps in defense of Governor Scott walker.

From taking back the United States House in 2010, to taking back the Senate in 2014, we have won battle after battle for liberty. In so doing, we have placed principled, limited government Americans in office. We knew the war wouldn’t be won overnight, but rather that it would be won over time. We have been steadfast, resolute, and successful.

But in the opinion of some of our fellow Americans, we have not been quick enough. Rather than continue to fight, a plurality of voters in the Republican primary has decided to drop an atom bomb on Washington, D.C. That atom bomb is Donald Trump.

And so I come to my explanation. When I apply my litmus test of liberty to Donald Trump, he fails - completely.

In fact, he has not only failed to ever stand for liberty, he has repeatedly worked to undermine it. From supporting an assault weapons ban, the seizure of private property via eminent domain, the restructuring of libel laws, and socialized medicine (just to name a few) - throughout his entire adult life, Donald Trump has repeatedly championed the power of the state.

Regardless of what he says now, Donald Trump has a history. That history is the clearest indication of how he would govern as president. No matter how badly Americans want to “blow up” Washington, they absolutely must consider who, and what, arises from the embers of that destruction.

After voters drop that atom bomb, what happens next?

Herein lies my greatest concern. What will become of liberty under a Trump administration? Will it grow? Will it recede? Will it vanish altogether?

Our Founders realized that the normal course of history is despotism – the control of the many by the few. That is why the Founding documents sought to constrain government. They also counted on Americans to choose wisely those whom we sought to install in office. Too often we have failed in selecting the best among us.

Donald Trump is not the best among us, nor is Hillary Clinton. They are both incredibly flawed human beings whom we should be equally ashamed of.

Neither would advance the cause of freedom. Both would take us – not to that shining city on a hill of which President Reagan spoke - but into the murky valley below. Never have I seen America faced with having two such poor choices for president.

With the lessons of history as my guide, I see in Donald Trump the character flaws that are the hallmarks of despotism. In Hillary Clinton, I also see multiple character flaws, but I see them as belonging not to a potential despot, but rather to a conniving, self-serving, progressive politician who believes in lining her own pockets and enlarging/increasing the state and its power.

The two are reprehensible – but completely different. One threatens to further enlarge the state, the other, potentially (a la Napoleon), to become it.

Growing up, a wonderful nun repeatedly told me that kindness could only be expected from the strong. When Donald Trump mocked the disability of New York Times reporter Serge Kovaleski – he showed himself to be not only weak, but also lacking in compassion.

Trump’s position that he is a Christian, but has never asked for forgiveness – coupled with his incessant bragging – not only further shows that he is weak, but that he also lacks humility.

Strength, compassion, and humility are necessary in any leader – but especially so in the person who would occupy the highest and most powerful office in the world. Just look at what the absence of those qualities has done over the last seven years.

My greatest concern about Donald Trump, though, isn’t a trait he lacks, but a dangerous one he possesses – in spades. Authoritarianism.

Confident people do not bully and demean others. That is the realm of the weak and insecure. Confident people also do not threaten others, especially not their fellow citizens.

Donald Trump has told us to just wait and see what he does to Jeff Bezos once he gets into the White House. He has told us the American military will do whatever he tells them to do no matter what their reservations. He has promised to prevent American companies from moving outside the United States, regardless of what they believe is best for their businesses.

In other words, Donald Trump has clearly told all of us that he will use the power of the presidency to force people to bend to his will. This is not liberty.

In fact, Donald Trump has never even spoken about liberty. Neither has he spoken about the Constitution and the Founding documents. This is an absolute first in the history of the United States.

Instead, Donald Trump talks about hiring the “best people” and making the “best deals.” This, though, isn’t what made America great, and it certainly isn’t what will return America to its prominence.

The blueprint for America’s success is the ideas of the Framers – limited, Constitutional governance – an area in which Donald Trump is criminally ignorant.

Let me be clear that I don’t want to vote for Hillary Clinton. I also don’t want to vote for Donald Trump. My preference is to write-in or vote third party. I think they are both terrible for our future.

But between a big government progressive and a potential despot – every American must ask themselves where liberty has the greatest chance to survive over the next four years.

As a Constitutional conservative, I take solace in, and guidance from the words of Alexander Hamilton, who in the election of 1800 said, “If we must have an enemy at the head of government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible.”

I value all of you as friends, readers, and fellow patriots. There is much at stake for our Republic. Be informed, be selfless, and vote your conscience. I will not hold your decisions against you.

None of us knows the future. But I ask that all of us look to the past. Only by doing so can we safeguard liberty and chart the most well-reasoned course forward.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

TommyGunn

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2016, 11:14:07 PM »
All that is well and good.  But just what IS the solution?  For whom do I vote?  Or should I not vote at all?

I see a possibility of a improving economy with Trump.
I see another 4 to 8 years of the past 8 with Hillary.
I honestly don't think America can survive another 4 years of this....but we might almost squeek  by with Trump.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2016, 11:31:45 PM »
From Author Brad Thor:

Let me be clear that I don’t want to vote for Hillary Clinton. I also don’t want to vote for Donald Trump. My preference is to write-in or vote third party. I think they are both terrible for our future.

My preference would be to write in or to vote third party, too. Except that either of those options is a vote for Hillary Clinton.
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Fitz

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2016, 12:32:57 AM »
Here's a news flash for you guys...

Hillary is winning anyways. Even if a chunk of us hold our noses AGAIN.

I wont do it anymore
Fitz

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MikeB

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2016, 05:18:31 AM »
Astute commentary? Not so much. More like someone making excuses. I doubt he would have written this if Bush or Graham were the nominee. Neither of them are any more and probably less about liberty than Trump. Trump would not have been my first choice, not second, third, or fourth either. All these guys writing this stuff though weren't or haven't complained about Ryan, Bush, McCain, Romney, etc., etc. They just don't like Trump beating their establishment choices and are afraid he might actually stop the gravy train.

Trump can't do any of these evil things people somehow think he will do without a compliant congress. If the Republican party is really the party of liberty and small government then we should have nothing to worry about. If not then the rest of the GOP aren't any different than Trump and shouldn't have any complaints about him.

And really, these people would prefer Hillary over Trump, that is the only choice we have. A third party vote in this day and age is no more than voting for the Dem candidate period. It is not some grand principled choice not matter what some may think.

dogmush

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2016, 06:13:15 AM »
Except that either of those options is a vote for Hillary Clinton.

Quote from: MikeB
A third party vote in this day and age is no more than voting for the Dem candidate period. It is not some grand principled choice not matter what some may think.

You know....I see this more and more these days, and I have to call BS. A vote for Hillary is a vote for Hillary.  Full Stop.  If my ballot doesn't have a chad hanging next to her, then I didn't vote for her.  My (and yours actually) duty as a voter is to vote for the person I think is the best candidate.  Not "The one that I think can win", or "against the one I dislike a little more", but vote for the best one.  Not that hard to comprehend.

In point of fact, it's the two of you, and people like you that have led us to this situation.  You trained the Republicans (and your counterparts on the other side trained the Democrats) that no matter who they put up, in the end you come running to the bell like Pavlov's good little doggies.  So they put up increasingly crappy candidates (which you ran up and voted for) until it got so bad the mouth breather types nominated Donald freaking Trump.  And like good little Republicans you are lining up to vote for Donald Trump.  You don't even (for the most part) think he'll be a good president, but you're still gonna vote for him. 

This is YOUR fault, for not demanding better from your party 25 years ago.  This is reaping what you have sown for explicitly telling the Republicans that you'll vote for whoever they nominate to "Beat [insert random democrat here]".  And when Hillary wins it'll be your fault as Republicans that your party sucks so hard, because it's YOUR party and YOU built it.  Quit trying to deflect the blame on those of us that have been pointing out the Republicans suck for decades.

Ron

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2016, 06:50:25 AM »
Here's a news flash for you guys...

Hillary is winning anyways. Even if a chunk of us hold our noses AGAIN.

I wont do it anymore

Too bad the Republicans didn't have a good conservative candidate we could all rally around like, Dole, McCain or Romney. You know, someone we could vote for with confidence!  :laugh:

It may be wrong but I'm enjoying Trumps wrecking ball affect on the establishment. Just because I'm not a Trump supporter doesn't mean I can't enjoy the chaos he has caused. He has done plenty of good just as a candidate, he already has a hard act to follow if he becomes president.

As an aside, Trump has nearly pulled even with Clinton in some battleground state polls. Wait till he actually pivots to attacking her, should be fun.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/trump-clinton-florida-ohio-pennsylvania-222994
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 07:14:18 AM by Ron »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2016, 06:57:48 AM »
Here's a news flash for you guys...

Hillary is winning anyways. Even if a chunk of us hold our noses AGAIN.

I wont do it anymore
I agree

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MikeB

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2016, 07:04:41 AM »
You know....I see this more and more these days, and I have to call BS. A vote for Hillary is a vote for Hillary.  Full Stop.  If my ballot doesn't have a chad hanging next to her, then I didn't vote for her.  My (and yours actually) duty as a voter is to vote for the person I think is the best candidate.  Not "The one that I think can win", or "against the one I dislike a little more", but vote for the best one.  Not that hard to comprehend.

In point of fact, it's the two of you, and people like you that have led us to this situation.  You trained the Republicans (and your counterparts on the other side trained the Democrats) that no matter who they put up, in the end you come running to the bell like Pavlov's good little doggies.  So they put up increasingly crappy candidates (which you ran up and voted for) until it got so bad the mouth breather types nominated Donald freaking Trump.  And like good little Republicans you are lining up to vote for Donald Trump.  You don't even (for the most part) think he'll be a good president, but you're still gonna vote for him. 

This is YOUR fault, for not demanding better from your party 25 years ago.  This is reaping what you have sown for explicitly telling the Republicans that you'll vote for whoever they nominate to "Beat [insert random democrat here]".  And when Hillary wins it'll be your fault as Republicans that your party sucks so hard, because it's YOUR party and YOU built it.  Quit trying to deflect the blame on those of us that have been pointing out the Republicans suck for decades.

My party? My fault?

Perhaps you should better educate yourself before casting aspersions.

Until probably the second GWB election I had never voted for a Republican or Democrat in any election. As for my party I was registered independent from the age of 18 until about 2 months ago when I registered GOP to vote for Cruz over Trump.

My comments are not for "my party" they are the voice of experience in seeing that voting third party doesn't work.

wmenorr67

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2016, 07:38:16 AM »
My party? My fault?

Perhaps you should better educate yourself before casting aspersions.

Until probably the second GWB election I had never voted for a Republican or Democrat in any election. As for my party I was registered independent from the age of 18 until about 2 months ago when I registered GOP to vote for Cruz over Trump.

My comments are not for "my party" they are the voice of experience in seeing that voting third party doesn't work.


If enough people would quit thinking like that maybe a third party candidate could actually make some noise.  Not since Ross Perot have we had a third party candidate actually make any headway into the establishment.  Maybe if just maybe someone had jumped on his coattails back then there wouldn't be the two party system anymore.  And actually in some locations at the local and state levels third party candidates do quite well.
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MikeB

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2016, 08:03:26 AM »
If enough people would quit thinking like that maybe a third party candidate could actually make some noise.  Not since Ross Perot have we had a third party candidate actually make any headway into the establishment.  Maybe if just maybe someone had jumped on his coattails back then there wouldn't be the two party system anymore.  And actually in some locations at the local and state levels third party candidates do quite well.

If I thought a viable third party candidate could win I would potentially vote for them. I voted for Perot twice and continued to vote for Third parties. In this particular election a third party vote at this time is a wasted vote and only helps Clinton.

castle key

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2016, 08:16:36 AM »
We don't need a third party.... We need a second party...
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brimic

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2016, 08:33:29 AM »
All that is well and good.  But just what IS the solution?  For whom do I vote?  Or should I not vote at all?



State government.
If 'merika goes all Balkans, you want a strong, fiscally sound state government where you live.
Trump/hillary matter less to most people than what happens to them locally.
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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2016, 08:54:42 AM »
All that is well and good.  But just what IS the solution?  For whom do I vote?  Or should I not vote at all?

I see a possibility of a improving economy with Trump.
I see another 4 to 8 years of the past 8 with Hillary.
I honestly don't think America can survive another 4 years of this....but we might almost squeek  by with Trump.

If only there were a political party which stood entirely on a platform of liberty....
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2016, 09:14:27 AM »
If enough people would quit thinking like that maybe a third party candidate could actually make some noise.  Not since Ross Perot have we had a third party candidate actually make any headway into the establishment.  Maybe if just maybe someone had jumped on his coattails back then there wouldn't be the two party system anymore. And actually in some locations at the local and state levels third party candidates do quite well.


That would only happen with major structural (constitutional) changes. American politics doesn't allow for more than two parties, at least at the national level. When a "third party" succeeds, it merely displaces the weaker of the two major parties (like the Republicans displaced the Whigs).

Nations with viable "third parties" have things like parliaments, prime ministers, and/or proportional representation. What we have is a system that only rewards whichever party gets the most votes. That's why Libertarians are accused of "wasting their votes."


It may be wrong but I'm enjoying Trump's wrecking ball affect on the establishment. Just because I'm not a Trump supporter doesn't mean I can't enjoy the chaos he has caused. He has done plenty of good just as a candidate, he already has a hard act to follow if he becomes president.


This. I'm not afraid of "throwing my vote away," by voting for a write-in/3rd party. It's just that I prefer Trump to the establishment pukes, and I'd like to let them know about it.
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grampster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2016, 09:15:36 AM »
I have been in a quandary about this election.  I fully understand that as a constitutional conservative, if I vote for anyone other than Hillary that is not Trump, that elects Hillary if enough principled folks of my ilk did the same.  I am also a person who has been involved in government and have been elected to office, as well as serving in several appointed offices, and did my best to keep my peers acting in accordance to our proper mission.

Having said that, reading the quote from Alexander Hamilton near the end of Mr. Thor's commentary sealed it for me: "If we must have an enemy at the head of government, let it be one we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible."  So, yes, I agree that voting is a right that has been hard fought for and paid for by the blood of patriots.  But in good conscience I can abstain under the same principal if my countrymen have neglected to be honorable and to have failed to have participate properly in our governance so that we have only enemies striving to be the head of government.  At least I can rest knowing that I have not been responsible for that "...enemy at the head of government..."
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makattak

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2016, 09:30:22 AM »
I think Brad is wrong in his assessment of Trump.

Public Trump isn't who Trump is. It's an act, calculated (likely with a lot of instinct) for effect.

What this means, of course, is that we have no idea who and what Trump really is. As such, I cannot trust him.




Fortunately, the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God governs in the affairs of men. Whomever he has planned, whether to give us grace or for our punishment, will lead.

Furthermore, I know my public choice and that my vote doesn't really matter, anyway. I vote not because it is rational, but because I have a duty to do so.  

As such, I will follow my conscience and vote for someone other than the candidates from the two main parties. I have not yet decided whom that will be.
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HankB

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2016, 10:43:57 AM »
"If we must have an enemy at the head of government, let it be one we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible."

And with a Dem senate, Dem house, and four new new SCOTUS justices (Obama, Schumer, Feinstein, and Boxer) you would oppose Hillary - how?

I can understand people not wanting to vote for the lesser evil from the same establishment cabal (Bush, McCain, Romney, and if things had worked out differently, JEB!) but maybe - just maybe - a lesser evil that upsets the GOPe as much as he upsets the democRATS might be just what we need right now - just like a brown bomber and a dose of salts. 

Sitting things out is a bit like the old cliche about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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TommyGunn

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2016, 12:13:19 PM »
State government.
If 'merika goes all Balkans, you want a strong, fiscally sound state government where you live.
Trump/hillary matter less to most people than what happens to them locally.

Then may God have mercy on the state of Alabama...... :'(
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230RN

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2016, 02:08:04 PM »
Quote
Only with the benefit of hindsight is mankind able to make the final judgment.

And your commentator is hindsighting about the future.  Humph!  
Astute, my soft pink tushie.  It sounds more like something designed to draw voters away from Trump and assure a win for the Democrats.

Fear-mongering, in short.  I'm as aware of historic paths to dictatorship as anyone, and I, too, have concerns about demagoguery.  But I know what will happen with a President Clinton.

I, me, myself, and I, would rather vote for the unknown than Ms. Clinton (talk about demagoguery!) and hope for the best and a strong Senate and House to hold the leash.

Might work, might not.  But there's no guesswork involved with the Democratic "presumptive" candidate.

You see what cards have been played, and you draw or stand accordingly.

That's "astute" for ya.

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 02:29:44 PM by 230RN »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2016, 08:02:12 PM »
If only there were a political party which stood entirely on a platform of liberty....
One that was viable. Could field a real candidate instead out getting confused by being focused on weed or rallying behind a pretty candidate with zero experience because he says what they wanna
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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230RN

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2016, 08:21:42 PM »
One that was viable. Could field a real candidate instead out getting confused by being focused on weed or rallying behind a pretty candidate with zero experience because he says what they wanna

^...hear.  (You're welcome.)

But at least he knows what we wanna hear, which is not the politically correct crap we've been fed, and he's got the balls to say it going in.

I'm sure Trump won't be able to (or want to) do everything he's said, and I'll bet there'll be a lot of foot to the fire holding, but at least he knows what working mid-America has been bitching about for years.




WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

longeyes

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2016, 08:32:42 PM »
Trump is where he is because Maximus, Commander of the Armies of the North, isn't around to run.

If you want Cruz, or someone equivalent, you will have to elect Trump first.  Someone has to get the chainsaw and clear the brush.

It took a century to get here, how long it takes to get back we don't know.  But things move faster now.  Keep the faith.
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Fitz

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2016, 11:18:27 PM »
Trump is where he is because Maximus, Commander of the Armies of the North, isn't around to run.

If you want Cruz, or someone equivalent, you will have to elect Trump first.  Someone has to get the chainsaw and clear the brush.



Sounds suspiciously like "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it."

No thanks
Fitz

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2016, 11:38:46 PM »
^...hear.  (You're welcome.)

But at least he knows what we wanna hear, which is not the politically correct crap we've been fed, and he's got the balls to say it going in.

I'm sure Trump won't be able to (or want to) do everything he's said, and I'll bet there'll be a lot of foot to the fire holding, but at least he knows what working mid-America has been bitching about for years.






Just because he knows, it doesn't mean he cares.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds