Author Topic: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election  (Read 14537 times)

Balog

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2016, 01:12:00 PM »
What this means, of course, is that we have no idea who and what Trump really is.

We have decades of his actions on which to judge him. And his actions ahve always been to support gun bans, and socialism, and abuse of eminent domain, and abuse of bankruptcy laws etc etc etc.

I don't understand how the folks who mocked people that bought Mitt Romney's empty rhetoric over his history are doing exactly the same thing with Trump.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2016, 01:14:46 PM »
First, be careful listening to the leftist media propaganda with regard to Hilary winning.  I have heard newer polls are starting to show Trump beating Hilary as a lot of Democrats hate Hilary Clinton as much or more than some Republican dislike Trump.  I think most Republicans will end up voting for Trump anyway assuming Trump doesn't do something stupid. 

Second, I am not a big Trump fan, but I will take him with my concerns over Hilary Clinton who is a guaranteed terrible choice for President.  We KNOW she is a liar and a criminal who is out to destroy our rights.  I won't do anything that helps her win. 

Third, when I compare Trump to McCain and Romney who were the last two Republican candidates, I have to ask how Trump is really any worse than they are?  Romney is a weak moderate who failed to stand up and fight.  McCain (IMO) is a slimy establishment guy.  I think I might be willing to take Trump with his unknowns over those two. 

Trump is not an unknown. Trump is a lifelong, hardline democrat who changed his branding slightly. The only difference between him and Hillary is that Republicans will oppose the things she tries to push through.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2016, 01:17:27 PM »
Still too much butthurt, especially in the face of their numerous blown predictions and their florid derision of trump supporters. 

Not too many folk have it in them to man up and ally with someone after they spat in his face and talked shinola about him for months.  Better to go off and vote meaningless third party while claiming moral victory than admit the mouth breathers were right, they won, that trump is no worse than any gop candidate since ghwb, and that trump is much preferable to clinton.

Trump is worse than Hillary in every metric. He has identical instincts and beliefs (which is why they've always been such good friends and he's always given so much to her) but becuase he has an R by his name then the GOP sheep will support his version of socialism and corruption. See the difference in response to Medicare Part D and Obamacare.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2016, 01:20:04 PM »
To the third-party voters and non-voters who've made a personal decision to exercise their inarguable right NOT vote for flawed GOP candidates in the last two elections.

Thank you for Obama - and Obamacare.

Thank you for SCOTUS justice Sonia Sotomayor.

Thank you for SCOTUS justice Elena Kagan.

Thank you for an 18 trillion dollar national debt, de facto amnesty for illegal aliens, use of the IRS as a weapon against conservative groups, a path to a nuke for Iran, the rise of ISIS . . . and more.

Perhaps we'll be thanking you for another President Clinton next year.

Now let the indignation begin.

 [popcorn]



The blame for that rests on the GOP for nominating Democrat-lite candidates.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2016, 12:04:15 AM »
and thank you for alienating us further so we are even less inclined to jump on your bandwagon.

We are all in this together.  :angel:

Apparently we aren't all in this together. Way too many folks ready to hand the election to Hillary because they are butt hurt that their chosen candidate didn't make the cut.

Those that think a Hillary presidency would be better than a Trump presidency because "by damn, I got principals" better hope their *expletive deleted*ing principals will buy them some beans in about 3 years.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

grampster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2016, 10:31:25 AM »
One the other hand.....copied from another site.

Exactly who is Trump?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something to think about for both republicans or democrats, or independents...or atheists...or, or, or

Whether you like him or not, read this. If you love your country, your family, your children and grandchildren, this is important.

I copied this from a post by Michael Smith. He recognized how this gentleman characterized Donald Trump perfectly.

This is an interesting assessment of "The Donald". This person may have nailed him for what he really is.


Trump Is Not Conservative; he’s A Pragmatist.

By Mychal Massie on January 19, 2016 in Daily Rant, Race & Politics

We recently enjoyed a belated holiday dinner with friends at the home of other friends. The dinner conversation was jocund, ranging from discussions about antique glass and china to theology and politics. At one point reference was made to Donald Trump being a conservative to which I responded that Trump is not a conservative.


I said that I neither view, nor do I believe Trump views himself, as a conservative. I stated it was my opinion that Trump is a pragmatist. He sees a problem and understands it must be fixed. He doesn’t see the problem as liberal or conservative, he sees it only as a problem. That is a quality that should be admired and applauded, not condemned. But I get ahead of myself.


Viewing problems from a liberal perspective has resulted in the creation of more problems, more entitlement programs, more victims, more government, more political correctness, and more attacks on the working class in all economic strata.


Viewing things according to the so-called Republican conservative perspective has brought continued spending, globalism to the detriment of American interests and well being, denial of what the real problems are, weak, ineffective, milquetoast, leadership that amounts to Barney Fife Deputy Sheriff – appeasement oriented and afraid of its own shadow. In brief, it has brought liberal ideology with a pachyderm as a mascot juxtaposed to the ass of the Democrat Party.


Immigration isn’t a Republican problem – it isn’t a liberal problem – it is a problem that threatens the very fabric and infrastructure of America. It demands a pragmatic approach not an approach that is intended to appease one group or another.
The impending collapse of the economy isn’t a liberal or conservative problem it is an American problem. That said, until it is viewed as a problem that demands a common sense approach to resolution, it will never be fixed because the Democrats and Republicans know only one way to fix things and the longevity of their impracticality has proven to have no lasting effect. Successful businessmen like Donald Trump find ways to make things work, they do not promise to accommodate.


Trump uniquely understands that China’s manipulation of currency is not a Republican problem or a Democrat problem. It is a problem that threatens our financial stability and he understands the proper balance needed to fix it. Here again successful businessmen like Trump who have weathered the changing tides of economic reality understand what is necessary to make business work and they, unlike both sides of the political aisle, know that if something doesn’t work you don’t continue trying to make it work hoping that at some point it will.
As a pragmatist Donald Trump hasn’t made wild pie-in-the-sky promises of a cell phone in every pocket, free college tuition, and a $15 hour minimum wage for working the drive-through a Carl’s Hamburgers.
I argue that America needs pragmatists because pragmatists see a problem and find ways to fix them. They do not see a problem and compound it by creating more problems.

You may not like Donald Trump but I suspect that the reason people do not like him is because: 1) he is antithetical to the “good old boy” method of brokering backroom deals that fatten the coffers of politicians; 2) they are unaccustomed to hearing a candidate speak who is unencumbered by the financial shackles of those who own them vis-a`-vis donations; 3) he is someone who is free of idiomatic political ideology; and 4) he is someone who understands that it takes more than hollow promises and political correctness to make America great again.


Listening to Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders talk about fixing America is like listening to two lunatics trying to “out crazy” one another. Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio are owned lock, stock, and barrel by the bankers, corporations, and big dollar donors funding their campaigns. Bush can deny it but common sense tells anyone willing to face facts that people don’t give tens of millions without expecting something in return.
We have had Democrats and Republican ideologues and what has it brought us? Are we better off today or worst off? Has it happened overnight or has it been a steady decline brought on by both parties?

I submit that a pragmatist might be just what America needs right now. And as I said earlier, a pragmatist sees a problem and understands that the solution to fix same is not about a party, but a willingness and boldness to get it done.

People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure

Pass it on. Spread it to any page that has anything to do with the election on both sides. Make people think, not just hear, what the media is saying, and add your words and thoughts to the bottom.

This man is a New Yorker who says what he means. Not one incident has been highlighted of his boardroom dealings and negotiations that were any thing less then honorable. With men or WOMEN!

"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

RevDisk

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2016, 01:31:02 AM »
To the third-party voters and non-voters who've made a personal decision to exercise their inarguable right NOT vote for flawed GOP candidates in the last two elections.

Thank you for Obama - and Obamacare.

Thank you for SCOTUS justice Sonia Sotomayor.

Thank you for SCOTUS justice Elena Kagan.

Thank you for an 18 trillion dollar national debt, de facto amnesty for illegal aliens, use of the IRS as a weapon against conservative groups, a path to a nuke for Iran, the rise of ISIS . . . and more.

Perhaps we'll be thanking you for another President Clinton next year.

Now let the indignation begin.

 [popcorn]

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to my vote.  When the Republicans put a decent candidate forward, they'll earn my vote. I vote for R candidates when they seem better, D candidates when they seem better. Voting straight party line, Dem or Republican, is what got us all of that. ObamaCare, those SCOTUS Justices are admittedly on the Dems. The huge national debt, de facto amnesty, ISIS, etc are equally Republican as Democrat. You're arguing that because a party gave us bad things, we should blindly vote for them. For what purpose? So that they can continue to do more bad things..? Allegedly because they're less bad than the opposition.

Can you name me one single time of when Republicans had the majority that they used their power to significantly uphold the Constitution, reduce the power of government, reduce the size of the bureaucracy, reduce the national debt or ANYTHING other than token legislation? I can't think of any in the last couple of decades. At best, they can be at times lesser of two evils. But one can't say they're substantially better, just allegedly slightly less evil than the opposition.

Reality is, Republicans just suck in different areas than the Dems. The Entitlement mindframe that I see in this thread is just enabling it further.
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Scout26

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2016, 06:33:56 AM »
One the other hand.....copied from another site.

Exactly who is Trump?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something to think about for both republicans or democrats, or independents...or atheists...or, or, or

Whether you like him or not, read this. If you love your country, your family, your children and grandchildren, this is important.

I copied this from a post by Michael Smith. He recognized how this gentleman characterized Donald Trump perfectly.

This is an interesting assessment of "The Donald". This person may have nailed him for what he really is.


Trump Is Not Conservative; he’s A Pragmatist.

By Mychal Massie on January 19, 2016 in Daily Rant, Race & Politics



Ahhhhh, so what we need is a dictator, not a person that understands the role and function of government and will work to reduce it's size and scope.


 ;/ ;/ ;/
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grampster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2016, 10:07:51 AM »
"...a person that understands the role and function of government and will work to reduce it's size and scope."


And that would be.....?  I can't recall one in my lifetime.  I have Justin Amash in my congressional district.  Trouble is that he is one of a handful, thus pissing in the wind.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2016, 10:11:09 AM »
"...a person that understands the role and function of government and will work to reduce it's size and scope."


And that would be.....?  I can't recall one in my lifetime.  I have Justin Amash in my congressional district.  Trouble is that he is one of a handful, thus pissing in the wind.

We had two with actual chops in attempting to prevent the growth of government running in the Republican primary, and they were eschewed in favor of Trump.  Two who actually shut the federal government down over austerity measures.

Then, there's always third party....
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roo_ster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2016, 11:06:44 AM »
The logic that runs from anger/dismay at the GOP nominees up to Trump also disqualifying Trump is flawed.  Trump ran from outside the GOPe.  Ideologically, he may be similar to McCain & Romney, but he is coming from a different direction.  So, despite similar ideologies, the GOPe despised and feared him.  The despite is slowly dissolving due to many in the GOPe facing reality, but I think the fear is still there.

Thing is, this is not much an ideological election.  The many folk here who place ideology above all other factors are doomed to disappointment.  The GOP used to make noise at being an ideological party, throwing out boob bait for bubba, making pro-life, so-con noise, and the occasional small-gov't bull-talk for the libertarian-minded.  But what made the GOP roll was donor money and service to the donor class's interests and cultural predilections.  Trump has kicked that apart and based his campaign on American nationalism. 

The Dem party is similar.  Oh, it professes far-left ideology, but the glue that holds the Coalition of the Fringes together is Hate Whitey.  The ideology is merely the money-extraction mechanism (taxes & fees) and the emotional-satisfaction mechanism (rubbing real Americans' noses in the Left's cultural filth) and the weapon (destruction of American culture).  All that latter stuff is negotiable.  Hate Whitey is not.

IOW, it is an existentialist election.  On the Dem side, we have further destruction of America into a continent-wide Balkan mess.  On the GOP side, we likely will have a candidate that simply does not hate America...and some small chance of arresting the dispossession of Americans from their patrimony.  Already, given the 61 million immivaders since 1964 and their progeny, it has become nigh-impossible for a candidate who espouses American interests to become elected.  Keep it going and it will become mathematically impossible.

The conservative ideologically correct, America-loving candidate with good manners does not exist.  Anywhere.  We got what we got and we'd best address the rent in the hull before we start quibbling about the arrangement of the deck chairs.
Regards,

roo_ster

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MechAg94

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2016, 12:05:49 PM »
I guess I don't see Trump as the lefty communist that Hilary is.  I am not a fan, but I don't see how he is worse than Hilary.
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Ron

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2016, 12:47:43 PM »
Trump is less absurd as a candidate than Hillary.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2016, 01:07:13 PM »
Trump is less absurd as a candidate than Hillary.



"...less absurd as a candidate than Hillary." Well, that really narrows it down.
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Balog

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2016, 01:11:07 PM »
I guess I don't see Trump as the lefty communist that Hilary is.  I am not a fan, but I don't see how he is worse than Hilary.

The Republicans that hold the House and Senate would fight Hillary, and roll over for Trump.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2016, 01:13:40 PM »
I'm glad we have someone who's not going to be a puppet of the donor class! He'll self fund and be independent!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/14/report-gop-mega-donor-adelson-to-give-trump-up-to-100-million.html
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2016, 10:23:07 PM »
IOW, it is an existentialist election.  On the Dem side, we have further destruction of America into a continent-wide Balkan mess

Funny you should mention that. At just about any McDonalds in my area of operations (and that covers a lot of Mickey Ds), you pretty much have to speak Spanish if you want to get decent service. None of the kitchen crew members speak English, and the counter workers generally have a barely adequate grasp of English.

And I'm getting awfully tired of pressing three to speak English ...
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Fitz

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2016, 10:19:12 AM »
Apparently we aren't all in this together. Way too many folks ready to hand the election to Hillary because they are butt hurt that their chosen candidate didn't make the cut.

Those that think a Hillary presidency would be better than a Trump presidency because "by damn, I got principals" better hope their *expletive deleted*ing principals will buy them some beans in about 3 years.


We heard the same crap about Romney, from many of the same people.

Respectfully, get bent. You nominated a democrat. Now, you'll get one in the white house. No matter who wins.

This isn't the fault of people who won't vote for trump. if it was only Obama and  Hillary running, I'd bet you change your tune. But because the dude has an "R" by his name, we ignore the fact that he's a big government liberal with deep ties to the democrats?

Jesus.

I say again: the people who are handing this election to Hillary are the nincompoops who supported trump.

Then again, some of us called this...
Fitz

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Ron

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2016, 12:15:06 PM »
In many ways Trump has run a brilliant campaign.

Trump has identified the prevailing anxieties of flyover country and aligned himself as an ally.  Anti immigration/concern over Islamic immigration, nationalism over internationalism and anti establishment rhetoric. He has chosen great enemies, Islamists, the establishment, China, Mexico.  And that's just a small rundown of the emotional buttons he is pushing.

Trump is motivational, has Teflon armor unlike any we've ever seen and literally has taken both sides of every issue or at least has left possible negotiation open.

He is the Republican Obama where everyone sees what they want. Hell, I've even caught myself rooting for him on occasion as he smashed those I oppose. It was truly a joy seeing Trump spearhead what is potentially the end of the Bush dynasty and disenfranchisement of the neocon foreign policy establishment.

Nonetheless Fitz's point stands. Trump has a history of running with the enemy. He swims and breaths in the establishment/elite world, is part of the donor class and doesn't even pay lip service to small government/constitutionalist concerns. On the social issues front the best one could hope for under a Trump administration is that he ignores social issues, some would consider that a win.

There isn't much to hang onto there other than the immigration issue.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Fitz

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2016, 12:18:40 PM »
oh I definitely get the rooting for him aspect of it. I can't stand the guy, but there have been times when things he's said and done have made me cackle maniacally.

"YEAH! TAKE THAT!"

But, unlike some, I recognize what he actually is
Fitz

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roo_ster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2016, 12:43:51 PM »
I say again: the people who are handing this election to Hillary are the nincompoops who supported trump.

Just because you say so does not make it true.

Poll data shows Trump & Hillary closing.  And Trump hasn't even started in on Hillary.  Were I Trump, I would hold off until she beats Sanders, as Sanders is the more difficult for Trump or any GOP candidate to beat in the general.

It is very doubtful Cruz would have won any more states' electoral votes than Romney, as his appeal was solely to a slice of the GOP base.  To win, he would have had to angle for more & more base votes with Trump-like nationalistic issues.  That he would do so successfully is unlikely, given his charisma deficit.  Senator Paul (R-Jerry Lee Lewis) was even worse in that he went full *let's not go there* on his way out the door.

The simple fact of the matter is that the American electorate no longer supports contemporary ideological conservatism and never supported the fraud of "fiscally conservative, socially liberal."  That is what 50 years of third world immivasion gets you: an un-American electorate.

"Will Trump stick with his major issues?" is another point altogether.  I give him a 10% chance of that.  Still better odds than any of the other GOP candidates and better than Hillary.  Our choices are what they are.  Pining for an ideologically pure candidate will leave you waiting for godot.
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roo_ster

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Fitz

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2016, 12:45:32 PM »


"Will Trump stick with his major issues?" is another point altogether.  I give him a 10% chance of that.  Still better odds than any of the other GOP candidates and better than Hillary.  Our choices are what they are.  Pining for an ideologically pure candidate will leave you waiting for godot.

You're right. Much better to stick to the big government liberal who put an R next to his name and rails against mooslims and mexicans
Fitz

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I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2016, 12:56:09 PM »
We heard the same crap about Romney, from many of the same people.

Respectfully, get bent. You nominated a democrat. Now, you'll get one in the white house. No matter who wins.

This isn't the fault of people who won't vote for trump. if it was only Obama and  Hillary running, I'd bet you change your tune. But because the dude has an "R" by his name, we ignore the fact that he's a big government liberal with deep ties to the democrats?

Jesus.

I say again: the people who are handing this election to Hillary are the nincompoops who supported trump.

Then again, some of us called this...


Name calling? Starting to sound like a democrat there.

And, if you care to go look I was a Cruz supporter up until he went out. And while I'm not a huge fan of Trump I still think he would be a damn sight better than Hillary. But yeah I get it, you can't have your perfect candidate so you'll take your vote and go home and cut your nose off to spite your own face. And while you're at it go ahead and engage in some autonomous intercourse.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

roo_ster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2016, 01:05:41 PM »
You're right. Much better to stick to the big government liberal who put an R next to his name and rails against mooslims and mexicans

Oh, the noes!  A big gov't LIBERAL!?  Who would have thought it?  Is there a cream for that?

What you are lacking is context.  You make noise about, "unlike some, I recognize what he actually is" but do not see that it is not Trump vs Nothing or Trump vs George Washington's clone or Trump vs Ideal Candidate X.  Most likely, it is Trump vs Hillary.  

Big gov't liberal who talks about how he likes actual Americans vs the even farther left Hillary who makes no bones about her antipathy to actual Americans.  Those are your choices.  The open border & privatize the sidewalks libertarian has zero chance, even in the case of a catastrophe that incapacitates both Trump and Hillary at the same time.

Somebody needs to "rails against mooslims and mexicans" since nobody is looking out for the interests of Americans in the face of their depredations.

Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

RevDisk

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2016, 01:23:54 PM »
Name calling? Starting to sound like a democrat there.

 Do I call folks names regularly or something? If so, definitely apologize, I don't remember doing that other than in jest or under rare circumstances.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.