Author Topic: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election  (Read 14534 times)

Fitz

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #75 on: May 17, 2016, 01:29:00 PM »
Name calling? Starting to sound like a democrat there.

And, if you care to go look I was a Cruz supporter up until he went out. And while I'm not a huge fan of Trump I still think he would be a damn sight better than Hillary. But yeah I get it, you can't have your perfect candidate so you'll take your vote and go home and cut your nose off to spite your own face. And while you're at it go ahead and engage in some autonomous intercourse.


I'm not abstaining from voting, I'm voting for the candidate that actually represents my principles.

You know, kinda how it's supposed to work.

And you're worried about name calling? Please. After hearing months and months of people who simply WILL NOT vote for trump, you turn around and start vilifying us for it?

If you're gonna tell me to go *expletive deleted*ck myself, at least have the balls to come out and say it, coward .

Go ahead and tell yourself you fought the good fight when Hillary is inaugurated
Fitz

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Fitz

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #76 on: May 17, 2016, 01:31:44 PM »
Oh, the noes!  A big gov't LIBERAL!?  Who would have thought it?  Is there a cream for that?

What you are lacking is context.  You make noise about, "unlike some, I recognize what he actually is" but do not see that it is not Trump vs Nothing or Trump vs George Washington's clone or Trump vs Ideal Candidate X.  Most likely, it is Trump vs Hillary.  

Big gov't liberal who talks about how he likes actual Americans vs the even farther left Hillary who makes no bones about her antipathy to actual Americans.  Those are your choices.  The open border & privatize the sidewalks libertarian has zero chance, even in the case of a catastrophe that incapacitates both Trump and Hillary at the same time.

Somebody needs to "rails against mooslims and mexicans" since nobody is looking out for the interests of Americans in the face of their depredations.

When choosing between a kick in the balls and a punch in the balls, begging master for the punch is something I'm not willing to lower myself to. If we end up with Hillary or trump, it won't be because I willingly begged my masters for it

 Are you under the impression that I actually think we have a chance at a libertarian president? Because I'm not. The point is, if i want smaller government, the "party of small government" is going to have to lose votes until it realizes that it needs to pay more than lip service to that
Fitz

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roo_ster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2016, 01:40:56 PM »
I'm not abstaining from voting, I'm voting for the candidate that actually represents my principles.

You know, kinda how it's supposed to work.

And you're worried about name calling? Please. After hearing months and months of people who simply WILL NOT vote for trump, you turn around and start vilifying us for it?

If you're gonna tell me to go *expletive deleted*ck myself, at least have the balls to come out and say it, coward .

Go ahead and tell yourself you fought the good fight when Hillary is inaugurated

Yeah, the anti-trumpers on APS have been calling his supporters names for months now here and when one sorta-trump-supporter closely questions you about your vote--and calls you on your resort to name-calling--you claim he is "vilifying you?"  And then call him another name. 

Here ya go:


When choosing between a kick in the balls and a punch in the balls, begging master for the punch is something I'm not willing to lower myself to. If we end up with Hillary or trump, it won't be because I willingly begged my masters for it

 Are you under the impression that I actually think we have a chance at a libertarian president? Because I'm not. The point is, if i want smaller government, the "party of small government" is going to have to lose votes until it realizes that it needs to pay more than lip service to that

There is no party of small gov't in the USA.  Even the "upper-case L" Libertarian Party is A-OK with expanding gov't power to press its agenda.  Welcome to reality.
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roo_ster

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Fitz

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2016, 01:45:04 PM »
"Closely questions"

Is that what you call it when someone who says I'm voting for a candidate who represents me is "voting for Hillary"

It's not a question, or even a call for discussion. It's an attack by someone who is aware that trump will lose, and is already seeking someone to blame

Go back to begging master for the small whip instead of the large one.

You're right. No party is completely hands off, but we have had plenty of options better than trump, and the fact that a completely unobtrusive government isn't a possibility is no reason to stop trying to decrease government intrusion into our lives

Would you stop carrying a gun because a crime free society is impossible

Whatever helps you justify your choices, I suppose

Interesting quote in your sig. You should reflect on it
Fitz

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You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

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Jamisjockey

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #79 on: May 17, 2016, 01:52:31 PM »
Oh, the noes!  A big gov't LIBERAL!?  Who would have thought it?  Is there a cream for that?

What you are lacking is context.  You make noise about, "unlike some, I recognize what he actually is" but do not see that it is not Trump vs Nothing or Trump vs George Washington's clone or Trump vs Ideal Candidate X.  Most likely, it is Trump vs Hillary.  

Big gov't liberal who talks about how he likes actual Americans vs the even farther left Hillary who makes no bones about her antipathy to actual Americans.  Those are your choices.  The open border & privatize the sidewalks libertarian has zero chance, even in the case of a catastrophe that incapacitates both Trump and Hillary at the same time.

Somebody needs to "rails against mooslims and mexicans" since nobody is looking out for the interests of Americans in the face of their depredations.



Gasp.  If only there were other political parties to choose from.  Maybe even one that believes in respecting personal liberty, property and religious rights.
JD

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2016, 01:56:13 PM »
Gasp.  If only there were other political parties to choose from.  Maybe even one that believes in respecting personal liberty, property and religious rights.


Go on.


No, don't. Not in this thread. It's not worth continuing.
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roo_ster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #81 on: May 17, 2016, 02:00:16 PM »
Gasp.  If only there were other political parties to choose from.  Maybe even one that believes in respecting personal liberty, property and religious rights.

I would like to behold such a unicorn. 
Regards,

roo_ster

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Balog

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2016, 02:58:32 PM »
Deeds not words. Trump's personal history (until he decided he'd have better luck as an R than a D) is solid, hardline leftist literally no different than Hillary.

Ignore his rhetoric, assume he didn't have a life changing epiphany in his 60's and that the things he has always done in the past he will continue to do. If that is the case, then he will be far far worse than Hillary. As the GOP "leadership" is busy proving, they are spineless and will vote party uber alles. If the guy putting forth the marxist policy has an R by his name many of them will not oppose it. If Hillary does it is in their best interest to do so.

Trump is worse than Hillary.
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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2016, 04:07:23 PM »
Deeds not words. Trump's personal history (until he decided he'd have better luck as an R than a D) is solid, hardline leftist literally no different than Hillary.

Ignore his rhetoric, assume he didn't have a life changing epiphany in his 60's and that the things he has always done in the past he will continue to do. If that is the case, then he will be far far worse than Hillary. As the GOP "leadership" is busy proving, they are spineless and will vote party uber alles. If the guy putting forth the marxist policy has an R by his name many of them will not oppose it. If Hillary does it is in their best interest to do so.

Trump is worse than Hillary.

Trump is a nationalist, Hillary is an internationalist.

Trump is not an ideological Marxist, he is a crony capitalist. Hillary is a cultural Marxist as well as a welfare state proponent.

Nothing Trump has done or said over the decades makes me think he dislikes the USA or western civilization in general. Hillary will continue to try and dismantle our country under the guise of equality.

While I doubt Trump is a conservative (whatever the hell that means) I don't think he has as evil intentions as Hillary.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #84 on: May 17, 2016, 04:30:55 PM »
Quote
While I doubt Trump is a conservative (whatever the hell that means) I don't think he has as evil intentions as Hillary.

From what I've been seeing the last couple of decades, A "Conservative" is someone that talks one way and votes another. Tell their voters they oppose liberalism but voting for and supporting it in the legislature. Accepting of one sided compromises and willing to sacrifice principals for political and monetary gain.


If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #85 on: May 17, 2016, 04:33:31 PM »
Quote
If you're gonna tell me to go *expletive deleted*ck myself, at least have the balls to come out and say it, coward .

I'm sorry, did I use words with too many syllables?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Balog

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #86 on: May 18, 2016, 03:30:07 AM »
Trump is a nationalist, Hillary is an internationalist.

Trump is not an ideological Marxist, he is a crony capitalist. Hillary is a cultural Marxist as well as a welfare state proponent.

Nothing Trump has done or said over the decades makes me think he dislikes the USA or western civilization in general. Hillary will continue to try and dismantle our country under the guise of equality.

While I doubt Trump is a conservative (whatever the hell that means) I don't think he has as evil intentions as Hillary.



1. I disagree with your analysis of his record.
2. Regardless, he will actually be able to carry out his agenda in a way Hillary would not be able to do. Gridlock vs Medicare part D and the TSA redux.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #87 on: May 18, 2016, 07:35:52 AM »
1. I disagree with your analysis of his record.
2. Regardless, he will actually be able to carry out his agenda in a way Hillary would not be able to do. Gridlock vs Medicare part D and the TSA redux.


If by Med. Part D and TSA, you mean another Bush administration; and if by Gridlock, you mean a continuation of the past seven years - I'd prefer the former.
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MechAg94

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #88 on: May 18, 2016, 10:19:24 AM »
What sort of SC Justices do you think Trump would nominate?  Would he nominate internationalist commies like Obama has done?
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Neemi

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #89 on: May 18, 2016, 10:25:48 AM »


 :rofl: :rofl:

Ron

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #90 on: May 19, 2016, 08:41:18 AM »
Interesting article that discusses the rise of Trump and Hillary Clinton.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/opinion/campaign-stops/trumpism-and-clintonismare-the-future.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

Quote
The centrality of identity politics, rather than progressive economics, to the contemporary Democratic Party is nothing new. In 1982, the Democratic National Committee recognized seven official caucuses: women, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, gays, liberals and business/professionals. Thirty-four years later, this is the base of the Democratic Party of Hillary Clinton.

Quote
Whatever becomes of his bid for the presidency, Mr. Trump exposed the gap between what orthodox conservative Republicans offer and what today’s dominant Republican voters actually want — middle-class entitlements plus crackdowns on illegal immigrants, Muslims, foreign trade rivals and free-riding allies. Other candidates less flawed than Mr. Trump and more acceptable to the Republican establishment, like Ted Cruz, are likely to bring Republican policy positions and Republican voter preferences more closely into alignment, by moving somewhat to the left on middle-class entitlements and somewhat to the right on immigration and trade.

Quote
it is likely that the future of the Democrats will be Clintonism — Hillary Clintonism, that is, a slightly more progressive version of neoliberalism freed of the strategic concessions to white working-class voters associated with Bill Clintonism. On the other side of the aisle, it is probably only a matter of time before the conflict between elite libertarianism and the populism of the voters in the Republican Party is resolved more or less in favor of the voters, by a new orthodoxy that moves left on entitlements and right on immigration, while eschewing Mr. Trump’s inflammatory approach.
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grampster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #91 on: May 19, 2016, 09:24:23 AM »
Consider this, please.  For years Americans who identify as R's have been very loud about wanting the R's to stand up and be the loyal opposition...not D Lite.  So far, the GOPe has continued to be lap dogs.  Now we finally have someone who is scratching the scab off and getting in the faces of the progs/liberals/etc. Maybe he's not the one we'd prefer, but Trump is certainly not lying down on his back looking for a belly rub from the Ds, Rinos and the MSM.  We on the Right have been wanting the gloves off for several decades. Now they are off.  

Before any of us pass judgment on The Donald, we need to see what he says and proposes during the real campaign after the conventions.  Frankly I'm not interested in what The Donald has been.  I'm more interested in what he will be.  

As for the notion that he sees himself as some sort of dictator, get real.  We have two other bodies of the .fed gov.  Maybe they'll start doing their jobs of defending the Constitution if The Donald tries to get frisky and extra-constitutional as Obama has.  They'll certainly not be in fear and trembling by doing what we sent them to do as Trump is a white male billionaire.  No one should be afraid of picking on him or holding him accountable.

My point is that none of us should be locking in our decisions now.  We are getting what we've been asking for.  Let's see what happens.  No one needs to close up their mind at this point.  If you do, maybe you are part of the problem.  Deciding to fail to vote or voting for some obscure ideologue because somebody stole your ice cream cone may wind up being what needs to happen.  Now is not the time to decide to do that.  Man, I've been going back and forth on this almost hourly sometimes.  We need to have patience.


Again, who cares what The Donald was.  I'm more interested what he will be.  We won't know about that unless he wins the election.  The Republic has survived many bad elected critters.  We can survive a Trump if he turns out to be a stalking horse for more progressivism, but I doubt it.  He is a capitalist after all and progs hate capitalism.  Maybe he's a sort of statist, but again, we have the congress and the courts to rein him in.   For me, give me the unknown.  We do know what Hillary will do.  For sure we know what Hillary will do and it will not be best for America, period.  Who is president is important for many reasons, not just a single issue or a couple of them.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 04:34:06 PM by grampster »
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MechAg94

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #92 on: May 19, 2016, 11:12:41 AM »
The Repub convention isn't until late July two months away.  The election is another 3 or more months after that.  Lots of time to see what Trump does and how he handles himself.

Personally, I think he will get a sold win (maybe landslide) assuming he doesn't completely fall apart or start running as a liberal. 
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grampster

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #93 on: May 19, 2016, 04:34:57 PM »
Two pols, Fox and another mainline one show Trump up by around 5 pts over Hillary.
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makattak

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #94 on: May 19, 2016, 04:37:10 PM »
Two pols, Fox and another mainline one show Trump up by around 5 pts over Hillary.

See people? As I said before, it's not going to matter if I don't vote for Trump.

So you can have your Republican Obama, and I don't have to be a part of it.
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230RN

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #95 on: May 20, 2016, 11:54:52 AM »
But, but, what if only three voters showed up... you, and two Hillary voters?

At the very least, your vote for Trump might cancel out one of those students who vote both at home and at their dorms.

 >:D ;)
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HankB

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #96 on: May 20, 2016, 12:46:13 PM »
An additional data point in the Hillary vs Trump debate, this one concerning the plans of both over the next few days.

Hillary will meet with the family of Trayvon Martin and other parents who have lost children to gun violence, and will be keynote speaker at an event sponsored by the Trayvon Martin foundation where she is expected to repeat her recent calls for restrictive gun control.

Trump, on the other hand, will be speaking at the NRA convention.

That is all.
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230RN

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #97 on: May 23, 2016, 10:59:37 AM »
"Epiphany?"

Hey, I had a 180° one when I moved out to Colorado from New York City in the 1960s.

Not impossible.

Terry
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #98 on: May 23, 2016, 11:26:05 AM »
Well, here's some astute commentary for you:

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article79165287.html#fmp


If by "astute commentary" we mean "recycle article from 2008, and replace 'racism' with 'misogyny.'"
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MechAg94

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Re: Astute commentary regarding the presidential election
« Reply #99 on: May 23, 2016, 11:35:02 AM »
nm
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