real life survival story?

[AmbulanceDriver]

Unfortunately, local news is reporting that his body has been found.

He was in one of the many drainages that criss cross the area.....


http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_120506_news_missing_family_tues.569404ac.html

[280plus]

 Interesting that they confirm that people suffering from severe hypothermia feel warm and discard clothes. I have to admit I never knew that. Let's all try to learn from this, I have.

 

[Twycross]

Looks like he wandered off (alone, without proper clothing) off the road into some pretty nasty terrain, according to Google Earth. Tragic, but stupid.

[wingnutx]

Hypothermia causes an altered mental state similar to intoxication, so people lose judgement.

[Marnoot]

Confirmed that they've found his body:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,234880,00.html

 

[meinbruder]

Looks like he wandered off (alone, without proper clothing) off the road into some pretty nasty terrain, according to Google Earth. Tragic, but stupid.

The local radio and TV hand wringers are trying to build a case that the state should be held responsible for what happened.  It seems the family made a turn, using a map, up a road with a sign reading Oregon Coast (this way).  The roadmap gave no warning about travel conditions.   

The problem Im having with this incident is the map.  It was described as a standard road map, yet the Kim family traveled up a couple of forest service roads to get to the point they became stranded.  He was dropping bits of clothing and fragments of map as he walked; either to guide searchers in or to find his way back.  The only maps Ive seen with information about forest service roads are specific to the individual forests and are very nicely detailed.  They also clearly state that service roads are not always useable in the winter and should be considered closed.

I have such a map; its for the Tillamook Forest west of Portland.  Using it, and some advice from locals, Ive nearly been left stranded on steep gravel roads twice; both times in high summer.  The idea of traveling over the service roads in winter for a joy ride is madness.
}:)>     

[Matthew Carberry]

I noticed the lawsuit setup / responsibility evasion mention as well.  More or less "the state roadmaps have a warning, the Rand-McNally (deep pockets inc?  ) do not."

In motorcycling we say "dress for the crash, not the weather".  In cold areas you dress (or at least have proper gear) for the worst, not the drive.

Some people equate "point out poor choices and individual responsibility" with "blame the victim".  it doesn't apply in most scenarios and especially in this case.

[280plus]

Word of advice, NEVER trust your life to a map. During 25 years of traveling by map here in the NE ( mostly Rand McNally) I've found them to be incorrect more than a few times. Does that make the map people liable? Good question, I'd like to hear the answer to that one myself. I don't blame the victim I blame his (their) inexperience. He should have NEVER left the car. I wonder if hypothermia had begun to set in even before he left to go get help, that would explain his not thinking it all through clearly. Why didn't he concentrate his efforts on maintaining a fire?

[meinbruder]

Carebear and 280plus, several good points and questions.  The online mapping services carry statements to the effect of not responsible for accuracy.  I use Google and Yahoo mapping extensively and have been left scratching my backside more than once, and thats inside the metro area.  Sue the map maker?  Ill bet a quarter there is a tiny warning somewhere on most maps already, or will be soon.

Leaving the car is a debatable question; IMO building a fire would be problematic.  I can only describe Tillamook forest but its likely the conditions are very close in Klamath.  The last three weeks have seen several snowfalls and at this time of year clouds usually block the sun.  There was about a foot of snow total around Browns Camp and Lees Camp, these points are well known in the forest west of Portland.  The blanket of snow will take several weeks to melt with current weather conditions and its even been sunny for the last day or so.  Squaw wood would be very difficult to find in the snow and anything big enough to make a good fire from would require saws and/or axe to handle. 

Contrary to what the tree-huggers would have the world believe, some of the Oregon Forests are thick enough swallow people whole.  Every year ambitious hikers leave the roads or trails and spend days lost and hoping for rescue.  One or two are never heard from again, the lucky of those are found years later by hunters; in one case a hunter was found with a rifle leaning against the tree next to him, he had been there for three years.  Even a defective map is better than none. 
}:)>

[280plus]

Granted I have no idea what the terrain is like and possibilities of finding good fuel for a fire. I don't know what the heck they're showing us on the tube but from the film clips I see it is densely wooded and it looks like there is fuel everywhere. All I know is that if it was me I'd stick with the car and do everything possible to make a fire and keep it going. Fire is survival in those conditions. Of course, I pretty much grew up in the woods so I guess it's easy for me to say that. I AM a little surprised they found him, that must have taken some real determination. Let's just all try to learn something for this. I can tell you on two occasions I've headed off into the woods alone, ran into trouble, had to rethink my plans and settle in for the night. It takes discipline and experience to recognize when it's time to do that. Fortunately I was fully prepared both times and walked out the next day wiser for the experience. It's like, if only I was there to help them out. 

Of course, on both occasions I was never actually lost, just detained by conditions and minor mishaps.

[280plus]

Actually, one of those times I did lose the trail because it was night and raining like **** I was using a headlamp and could NOT find a tree with a blaze on it anywhere. So I made a quick shelter out of a plastic sheet, parachute cord and rocks and stayed fairly dry in my sleeping bag till morning. When I got up and looked around I found I wasn't too far off the trail at all but it was smarter to stay put instead of trying to find my way and REALLY get lost. Not the best night of sleep I ever had. 

[Matthew Carberry]

I don't leave major roads if I don't have a good map.  If I'm going into the woods I swing by the USGS for a topographic.

Even on the interstate you can be miles from anywhere and hours from help, pavement doesn't equal safety.

I always have a fleece blanket (zips into a bag) and a comprehensive survival kit in the vehicle, in Winter I add a shovel and a pair of decent boots, hat, mittens and coat, even if I'm just driving to and from work in town.  Just walking to the gas station can get cold at night in winter.

Preparedness is so easy, to not take basic precautions is not excusable, especially when your family is involved.

[RocketMan]

The Portland ABC station's website reports that the Kims passed three large road signs warning of snowdrifts on the road ahead, after they turned off I-5.
That kind of makes it hard to blame the maps.

[meinbruder]

280plus, it sounds like prior planning prevents P!$$ poor performance; something a friend of mine keeps talking about.  Hes combat infantry, First of the Sixteenth, Big Red One.  Properly equipped and trained for the worst.  Good for you, keep it up.

Carebear, Ive been meaning to put together a simple kit for my truck.  Just tonight I had to walk a block in the chilly air to reach my appointment.  The weather isnt so bad tonight but icy conditions could have been a problem for me.  Why no one prominently displays an address on his or her home is a mystery. 

Rocketman, I dont watch enough TV to know which channel belongs to the networks.  Is that a quote from Mrs. Kim?  If so my respect for her husband just dropped like a rock.  Truly a shame, men have died trying to save or rescue their family before but not in so foolish a fashion.
}:)>

[RocketMan]

Meinbruder,

That information was not attributed in the story, just listed.  Some of the searchers started looking for the Kims where they turned off I-5, so they might be the source.
The Portland ABC affiliate is KATU, channel 2.  Their website is katu.com.

[Leatherneck]

I have a number of misgivings about this tragic episode. First, let me emphasize that it makes me sad; I'm truly sorry two kids and a widow will never have the man back in their lives. BUT:

He never should have left the car; he could have done a number of things to improve their lot.

Why didn't he spend the first days concentrating on getting the car unstuck? Levers, improvised ropes, ramps and hand excavation with sticks can accomplish a lot, with perseverance.

Why didn't he build a fire using natural wood available instead of the tires off his car? One can keep a bonfire going indefinitely, and the smoke from green branches would be visible for miles, as would the thermal signature of the fire.

There are edible things in the woods if you know what to look for.

Why did he discard his clothes facing hypothermia? Why not use crossed sticks or stone cairns to blaze his trail?

Sad. So sad.

TC

[Matthew Carberry]

I keep thinking I'm being too hard on the guy (this man and others this sort of thing happens to).

I was a Cub Scout, I grew up in Alaska, my Dad took me camping, my Mom always had extra clothes for us in the car, I was in the Marines... I had all these opportunities to learn these things, the basic skills of planning and woodcraft.

But the more I think about it, a lot of this stuff I was not just "shown", I also "read".

In the outdoors section of the paper, in even half-assed researched novels and stories, in "Field and Stream" or "Outside" magazine ad nauseum.

There's no excuse for being so ignorant.  Anyone, literate and moderately well read, should absorb this kkind of thing if only on a "that'd be handy to know" level.  Anyone who can plan a trip should be able to think of a list of stuff to bring that covers realistic negative contingencies.

I noticed in one news sites (MSNBC I think) "winter safety" list of things to keep in the car the mention using floor mats to keep warm, but not to bring warm clothes and appropriate footwear.

That alone, in those conditions, could have let the guy walk out, uncomfortable but alive.

People, even intelligent people, just don't THINK anymore. 

[280plus]

Yup, I was thinking it over too. Floor mats, upholstery, rip up the rugs, usually theres some naterial for sound proffing under them, hubcaps to melt snow and make hot water. All kinds of things can be done. It's not intelligence that was lacking, just experience. I can't stress enough, he should have never left the car. If he had stuck with it he'd probably be alive right now. Wandering off into the wilderness with no topographic map, no compass, no hat, in tennis shoes in the dead of winter. That's just begging for tragedy to strike. Sad but true.

[280plus]

I'll tell you what else peeves me off. Perfect example of Murphy's law of the cellphone. When you absolutely need the  POS to work, it won't. 

Knowing me, I woulda been so mad I woulda started the fire with the cellphone. 

[Cosmoline]

They're going to have a tough time collecting from the map makers.  If the state closed the road and failed to mark it as such with signs they are probably liable.  But if the road just got snowed in, I don't see where anyone could be liable.  It's a natural condition, and if the state made no effort to keep it open they're not responsible for accidents there. 

If I'm going into the woods I swing by the USGS for a topographic.

Even those can be trouble.  They're OK as far as showing where the mountains are and navigating around them, but they're notorious for being out of date as far as man-made features.  I remember using a USGS to hike into the Cougar Reservoir area.  The road they showed going up to the res had actually been shut down decades before, and we came face to face with the earthen dam itself!  No road up, so we had to climb. 

The area he was in is similar to certain ranges in Idaho. Very rugged, with lots of very steep valleys and old logging roads leading from nowhere to nowhere.  What appears to be ground covered by light underbrush can turn out to be scree covered by six foot high brambles.  You can't see your hands, let alone your feet.  He should have simply gone back on the road instead of trying for a shortcut. 

[meinbruder]

Autopsy reports have been announced, he died of exposure brought on by hypothermia with no incapacitating  injuries.  There are some whisperings about animal bite marks but nothing specific yet.  I'm sure the news will carry more detail tonight.
Rest In Peace Mr. Kim.
}:)>

[gunsmith]

RIP mr kim.

I would have siphoned some of the gas to make a bonfire.
When I was in my 20's (about a million years ago)
I was camping with some hippies at a "rainbow gathering"
The theme at these things is anti to electricity and technology
so they couldn't keep the fire going due to a 3 day downpour.
Remembering a story I read about Daniel Boone as a kid
I went around and got dry firewood from the lower branches of the trees, something I'm sure could have been done in Oregon.
I throw Bradford's Angiers book "how to stay alive in the woods" in my truck during long distance trips.

My guess he was one of those types of people who refuse to consider these things as important.
There are a lot of people like him out there.

[280plus]

Right, I'm wodering how there couldn't be any standing deadwood in a forest like that. I was thinking about the hubcap thing. I forget that most yuppiemobiles have alloy wheels these days. Still, I would have tried to come uo with something to melt snow and make hot water in. Maybe even take the tire iron and cut me a piece of sheetmetal out of a fender or something. Plus, you could heat the rims in the fire and then toss them in the car for heat. You could do it over and over. Even rotating rims so there's always a hot one or two in the car while the others are warming. My dad gave me a miniature SAS survival manual years ago that is always in my pack in a plastic baggie.

[Desertdog]

When you are traveling, you don't think bad things happen.  According to reports, they missed their intended route and ended up stuck.

They are not the first, and won't be the last, to take the wrong road and end up in a desperate situation.

The question will always be in a situation like this; Do we wait or walk out?

Only a few people will be properly equipted to survive for an extended period in a situation like this, and even fewer from an area where this type of weather is unknown normally.

[LadySmith]

RIP Mr. Kim for trying to do something to save your family & I'm sad that it turned out wrong.

I heard on the radio that he & his wife "guestimated" from a map that the nearest town was only 4 miles away. It was 15. Poor guy.