Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews

[Ben]

You can get quite a bit of info out of a Furuno SINS, even if tracks and marks have been erased.  But it was the NTSB digging that info out, I doubt the Iranians have that level of skills.  I don't know what kind of electronics the RCB carried but the patrol craft the SWCC's and riverine guys used, that I saw, had really basic commercial nav systems. 

Is SINS a USCG thing? I've pulled data from Furuno chartplotters before for you guys. Wasn't one of yours, I was helping an MSD buddy on an accident investigation of civilian vessels. That was like fifteen years ago though, and back then you could do a lot with just an RS232 cable and a laptop. I've already been gone too long to know what the cutting edge tech is anymore. :(

[RoadKingLarry]

SINS isn't really cutting edge in itself. The equipment has been around for 40+ years. Of course the tech has improved and the size has gotten smaller.
Subs have been using it for a long time in various forms.
To target a ballistic missile you have to have a pretty good idea of where you are when you launch.
I saw and worked with several iterations while I was on subs, SINS, DMINS, ESGN... all just fancy, really, really accurate dead reckoning machines.

[Firethorn]

Today it's really just destroy any crypto you have - defined as keys.

Burn/shred/destroy any books, tapes, or other media.  For the boats, if you can't do anything else, at least toss them overboard, preferably in a weighted net bag or something(toss something heavy in there!) so that they don't pop up immediately. 

As navy guys should be able to tell you, in any depth of water finding such a thing is a huge pain in the butt, even if they 'know' where it was dropped.

Zero any key storage devices such as the CYZ or SKL .  Zero any KGs and other commo units with active keys in them.  Remove the keys and toss them (overboard).  If you have time, break them, but don't worry overmuch.

[dm1333]

Is SINS a USCG thing? I've pulled data from Furuno chartplotters before for you guys. Wasn't one of yours, I was helping an MSD buddy on an accident investigation of civilian vessels. That was like fifteen years ago though, and back then you could do a lot with just an RS232 cable and a laptop. I've already been gone too long to know what the cutting edge tech is anymore. :(

No, SINS was available commercially too.  I'm pretty sure Furuno calls it Nav/Net, at least now.

[KD5NRH]

(toss something heavy in there!)

But what if the chief could swim and they didn't have time to tie him up?

[seeker_two]

But you know why we don't do that on boats, right?

No. Why?

[roo_ster]

No. Why?

Enough plastic explosive to destroy commo gear detonating on a boat is bad for bouyancy.

[KD5NRH]

Enough plastic explosive to destroy commo gear detonating on a boat is bad for bouyancy.

Which is why you use a proximity detonator so it only goes off when it gets, say, 1.5 keel lengths away from your boat.

Or you just don't go for overkill; again, the really sooper sekrit stuff can be (and usually is) made almost ridiculously small.  An explosion that would render it useless could be fully contained in a beer keg.

[dogmush]

No you just design and build it in a way that it can be rendered inert without explosives, molten metal or small arms fire.

Enough plastic explosive to destroy commo gear detonating on a boat is bad for bouyancy.

Ding.  You don't want to set off any explosives on your boat.

[sanglant]

Napalm gotta be napalm.



And no don't try that.

[RoadKingLarry]

No you just design and build it in a way that it can be rendered inert without explosives, molten metal or small arms fire.

Ding.  You don't want to set off any explosives on your boat.

We had a passel of crypto crap to crunch in the shack on the boat and explosives were not involved. Explosions of any sort inside a submarine are generally to be avoided.

[Ben]

Thread necro.

As the news story is likely messing stuff up, I'm curious on one item in this report that maybe the BTDT guys could answer:

Second, the chain of command was not well defined on the two boats. While a young lieutenant was the highest-ranking individual on either of the two 50-foot boats, when the order was given to evade the Iranian forces, the helmsman refused the order.

Is that out of the ordinary, or are there circumstances where it would be common for a helmsman to refuse the order of the boat's CO (safety, hazards to navigation perhaps)? The LT is the guy who did the apology on tape, but if the story is accurate, it looks like before he made that mistake, maybe he was actually trying to do something right.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/23/navy-commodore-to-be-relieved-command-over-irans-capture-his-sailors.html?intcmp=hpbt3

[MechAg94]

I never saw the video, but was the crying obviously due to stress?  Or could it have been induced with chemicals?

[AJ Dual]

Dunno.. The Iranians might have access to "onion technology".   

[dm1333]

Thread necro.

As the news story is likely messing stuff up, I'm curious on one item in this report that maybe the BTDT guys could answer:

Is that out of the ordinary, or are there circumstances where it would be common for a helmsman to refuse the order of the boat's CO (safety, hazards to navigation perhaps)? The LT is the guy who did the apology on tape, but if the story is accurate, it looks like before he made that mistake, maybe he was actually trying to do something right.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/23/navy-commodore-to-be-relieved-command-over-irans-capture-his-sailors.html?intcmp=hpbt3

Let me preface this by saying I got out of the Navy in 1998 so my information is dated.  The LT had to have been the boat officer for one of those boats.  I don't understand why there wasn't a second boat officer for the second boat.  The boat officer is in charge.  Maybe that is what they are talking about with respect to the chain of command.

In 20 plus years of driving Coast Guard small boats I have never seen one of the crew ignore the coxswains (coxswains are in charge of a CG boat no matter who is onboard, even if it is an admiral, and coxswains are responsible for the conduct and safety of crew and passengers) commands or directions.  Generally speaking when the sh*t is about to hit the fan the coxswain has gotten on the wheel and is driving. 

It has been a few years since I've had to do anything with the Navy but when I did I was pretty unimpressed with their boat driving and their boat officers in general. 

[zxcvbob]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/23/navy-commodore-to-be-relieved-command-over-irans-capture-his-sailors.html?intcmp=hpbt3

I didn't think we used commodores anymore.

[dm1333]

It's a title, not a rank.  He commands multiple smaller independent units.

[MechAg94]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-us-sailors-ill-prepared-iran-encounter-gulf-135016699--politics.html

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/30/politics/iran-navy-capture-investigation-report/

I saw these links today and figured I would post them here.  Sounds like laziness and complacency at multiple levels.