Local to me news - permit holder killed by police

[wmenorr67]

Can y'all tell from the video if the officer told the guy to show his hands or not to reach for anything?

Thing is he may not have heard the officer say that considering he had just been told to produce his ID.

[De Selby]

Can y'all tell from the video if the officer told the guy to show his hands or not to reach for anything?

Sounds like a case of "Don't move!  Give me your ID immediately!  I said don't move!"

Some reports say there was a four year old in the car.  What the hell is the matter with people?  Paranoia about being shot needs to be recognised and treated as a mental illness. 

[Firethorn]

Some reports say there was a four year old in the car.  What the hell is the matter with people?  Paranoia about being shot needs to be recognised and treated as a mental illness. 

Medical retirement if they're that paranoid.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I've not watched the video, but this is exactly why I don't tell cops when I'm armed.  I don't trust them not to shoot me.

That can backfire on you when they run your ID.

A woman I know got grilled because she hadn't informed them of her CHL because she wasn't carrying when she was pulled over. They refused to believe her when she said it was at home and hassled her for a good while over it.
And this is in a state where it is not required and only recommended as a courtesy to the officers.

[zxcvbob]

That can backfire on you when they run your ID.

A woman I know got grilled because she hadn't informed them of her CHL because she wasn't carrying when she was pulled over. They refused to believe her when she said it was at home and hassled her for a good while over it.
And this is in a state where it is not required and only recommended as a courtesy to the officers.

That doesn't sound like a "courtesy" to me. 

[BlueStarLizzard]

That doesn't sound like a "courtesy" to me. 

It's not.

However, my Dad, who gets pulled over a lot because of his job, always informs and has never had a problem... Well, not a bad problem. He's had a few instances now of the cop deciding there was all the time in the world to stand by the side of the road and chit chat about guns. Dad had to gently, but firmly, tell one officer that he really had to get going, but he hoped his recommendations for a pistol for the officers wife worked out. 

[Phantom Warrior]

Plenty of people rushing to judgment from the other side, so... It looks to me like a bad shoot, but keep in mind that outrage over a black guy being shot has (over the past few years) usually meant that the cops were in the right.

Usually...

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.  I had the same thought initially.  But a number of things caused me to rethink.  The guy's age, his continuous state of employment, the fact that he had a clean enough record to get a carry permit, the fact that he was actually carrying and informed the officer.  This is starting to smell like a bad shoot to me too.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

If it is a bad shoot I hope the cop is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Considering it probably really is a bad shoot I know that is too much to ask.

On a side note:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/

On a better side note as far as making liberals twitch

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27/this-study-found-race-matters-in-police-shootings-but-the-results-may-surprise-you/

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

In my opinion?  No.

Garner is less clear about how to assess that or rather graham v Connor as a follow up is
The money shot for you

In the 1989 Graham v. Connor ruling, the Supreme Court expanded its definition to include "objective reasonableness" standard—not subjective as to what the officer's intent might have been—and it must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer at the scene—and its calculus must embody the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation

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[MechAg94]

It appears that at first the woman seems to just think her boyfriend got shot in the arm if you believe the narration.  That might be why she was more calm at first.  I thought the video caught the traffic stop, but it only starts after the shots are fired.  

I think it is telling how obviously emotional/stressed the officer is when he responded to the woman on the video.  Why would he say anything at all?  I also wasn't sure why he still held them at gun point then.  Maybe backup wasn't there yet.

I agree with a comment earlier.  I would like to see/hear the police video.  Even if it was just car video with the remote microphone, it would help clear up what happened.  All we seem to have at this point is the woman's video testimony and the response of the police officer on the video.  We need more.

[MechAg94]

I was looking at some of the face book comments on the news site.  One thing that jumped out at me:  You really shouldn't have to behave as if your life is on the line just because you are being pulled over for a traffic citation.  I saw several people commenting that he failed to follow the officer's instructions and he shouldn't have reached for something.  If traffic stops have somehow become life or death situations then they are too dangerous and police shouldn't be doing them. 

[zxcvbob]

It appears that at first the woman seems to just think her boyfriend got shot in the arm if you believe the narration.  That might be why she was more calm at first.  I thought the video caught the traffic stop, but it only starts after the shots are fired.  

I think it is telling how obviously emotional/stressed the officer is when he responded to the woman on the video.  Why would he say anything at all?  I also wasn't sure why he still held them at gun point then.  Maybe backup wasn't there yet....

Because if she had a knife or gun that he doesn't know about, it would be reasonable to expect her to try to kill him in self defense (and IMHO justified, see John Bad Elk v. US, 1900)

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Now reading. Not a permit holder


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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And police radio transcript says he matched description of armed robbery suspect


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[dogmush]

And police radio transcript says he matched description of armed robbery suspect


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I see this a lot, in a lot of these shootings.  So *expletive deleted*ing what?  Unless he WAS the armed robbery suspect, this gets zero traction with me.

A cop in a free country does not get a pass, or even leniency, for shooting someone not a criminal because they were nervous about a criminal.  To some extent the LEO defenders that insist they should helped create the us vs. them that lead to Dallas this week.  And it's my opinion that that little bit of tribalism has just barely kicked off.

[Ron]

Just read a report that the gun wasn't concealed but was in his lap.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/07/08/confirmed-philando-castile-was-an-armed-robbery-suspect-false-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/

[Boomhauer]

I don't believe anything from Conservative Treehouse. Need more reliable sources

[Balog]

I don't believe anything from Conservative Treehouse. Need more reliable sources

Conservative Treehouse is like a more explicitly racist combination of Infowars and World Net Daily. I would actually respect a WND link as more credible.

[Brad Johnson]

I'm beginning to see more rumblings, including a radio transcript, of there being a lot more to the story. The story links the robbery suspect's decription, one of the items taken, and and the woman who posted the film having a similar item in her possession during the 07/07 press conf.

I am reserving speculation pending confirmation by other sources but the narrative is reasonably plausible if the facts as presented are generally correct.

Brad

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Spme of what is in conservative Treehouse is from the police and you can see the gun in the picture

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[MechAg94]

Okay, if the guy had a gun in his lap, I can see why the officer would have a gun drawn and fire if the guy made the wrong movements.  Another reason it is always best to wait a few days before passing judgement.

[White Horseradish]

Now reading. Not a permit holder

Read some more. Yes, a permit holder.

http://www.startribune.com/philando-castile-had-permit-to-carry-gun/386054481/

Ramsey county did not issue it, Hennepin did.

And police radio transcript says he matched description of armed robbery suspect

Which means absolutely nothing.


A friend of mine got robbed. Gave a description to police. They brought a guy for her to ID. Looked nothing like the guy.

This is a bullshit excuse.

[dogmush]

Spme of what is in conservative Treehouse is from the police and you can see the gun in the picture

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You have NSA level image intensification software if you are sure that's a gun in the conservative treehouse article.  It's definitely a something though.

And the "Similar item to what was stolen" that the lady has is a pack of Newport 100's.  Not exactly rare in the hood.

I'm not calling for the cops head yet, I just said it looked bad.  But the efforts to spin the narrative in the LEO's favor seem more frantic than credible.

[White Horseradish]

Spme of what is in conservative Treehouse is from the police and you can see the gun in the picture

Oh, please. You can see some blurry thing that could be literally anything, from a cell phone to a belt.

[makattak]

I'm not certain why the attempts to stretch for justification in this case- police screw up and it would be helpful to their supporters to admit that it happens.

The ONLY amazing thing about this one would be if the BLM people actually found a case where an innocent was shot, since they almost uniformly choose criminals who gave cause for shooting.

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