Three cops shot dead in Baton Rouge

[MillCreek]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/baton-rouge-gavin-long-ambush-police-officers/

Mr. Long states he is a sovereign citizen.

[makattak]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/baton-rouge-gavin-long-ambush-police-officers/

Mr. Long states he is a sovereign citizen.

So, we're supposed to ignore the fact that he was a Nation of Islam member, but highlight the fact that he called himself a "sovereign citizen"?

Just want to make sure my scorecard is correct.

[MillCreek]

^^^Are the two mutually exclusive?

[makattak]

^^^Are the two mutually exclusive?

Nope, but the usual suspects are going to try to twist this into "RIGHT WING VIOLENCE!!!11!!1!" when the cause is quite clear.

[Ron]

^^^Are the two mutually exclusive?

In the context of current events, focusing on one while ignoring or downplaying the other is worth pointing out.

[MillCreek]

I have to say that every single sovereign citizen I have ever met has been a middle-aged white guy.  I am not certain if this is more the demographics of my area or to whom the concept appeals to.  So I was surprised to see a black man identifying as such.

[Perd Hapley]

I have to say that every single sovereign citizen I have ever met has been a middle-aged white guy.  I am not certain if this is more the demographics of my area or to whom the concept appeals to.  So I was surprised to see a black man identifying as such.

You racist.

[Andiron]

As far as i know none of them were infantry.  Could be wrong.

I was POG as they come,  and paid enough attention to know that.

[BReilley]

I'm just going to say that these instances where people who have seen a certain class of individual routinely/systematically beat, cage and/or murder others with whom they identify(because of physical similarities i.e. "race", family ties, geographic proximity or whatever else, right or wrong) decided to act out violently against *specifically* that aggressor class are completely expected and predictable.  I can imagine life as a second-class citizen might inspire vindictive thoughts toward the most visible and accessible symbols of one's oppression.

You don't have to agree with the act, but if you ignore the background you're lying to yourself.

This is not going to end well.  Cops are going to act more aggressive out of fear(oh noes, a whole dozen killed in a year?  Is it approaching the odds experienced by the soldiers these guys pretend to be, in the war where they fired the first shots?), which will engender more hatred(rightly) among those they act against, and politicians and frightened mundanes will throw more blind legal, moral and economic support to the police(wrongly).

This is not surprising.  It's the war the cops have always wanted.

[Ben]

This is not going to end well.  Cops are going to act more aggressive out of fear

This is one of my biggest fears out of all this. It will lead to interactions like traffic stops becoming tactical encounters.

[birdman]

To clarify,  I'm appalled by how BAD said tactics were.  That the acts themselves were despicable isn't in question.  Both shooters deployed,  and should know enough to not get in a standup fight with superior forces.  They could've taken shots from cover, and went home,  making this last weeks.  What I mean is I'm glad they were stupid about it.

Given their likely goals (more dead than 1), and cause upheaval, terror, and distress, combined with their the targets being unaware and ambushed, with zero real Intel, their skills didn't/don't need to be high.

[BobR]

This is from a very good friend of mine so I can't say it is truth anymore than I can second hand information from any source. I will be looking into it and see where it takes me. It seems to make a little bit of sense though.

There is an entire communication in black culture called, "The Conscious". They are not Christians, they believe they are the original Hebrews. They teach that white people are the oppressors because they are a cursed people and an abomination. Interracial relationships are forbidden and frowned on severely. Friendships and bring white people to family gatherings will get you kicked out. There are "soldiers" in the Consciousness. Mostly young, single, introverted and extremely angry men. Most, if not all, served in the military. The more outspoken ones post a lot of videos on YouTube. To others it is Consciousness-speak. To me, they sound like your garden variety psychotic paranoid schizophrenic and narcissist. These loners consider themselves defenders of the Conscious - martyrs. The only way to effect change is to do what white people did originally - take back power by bloodshed.
 These recent events have raised a call to arms for the self-declared "martyrs" of these groups.

This is the first I have heard of this particular group and if what she says is true it could be cause for concern.

I am going looking now. Has anyone else heard of this movement?

bob

ETA: I guess I have been living under a rock. It seems every one but me (including tons of Law Enforcement Agencies) has heard of this. 

[Ben]

ETA: I guess I have been living under a rock. It seems every one but me (including tons of Law Enforcement Agencies) has heard of this. 

Hello neighbor. I've never heard of it either.

[Perd Hapley]

Never heard of that term, but it's hardly original. The exact doctrine may change, but this kind of thinking has been around a long time in Black America. Cf. Nation of Islam, etc.

[Pb]

I'm just going to say that these instances where people who have seen a certain class of individual routinely/systematically beat, cage and/or murder others with whom they identify(because of physical similarities i.e. "race", family ties, geographic proximity or whatever else, right or wrong) decided to act out violently against *specifically* that aggressor class are completely expected and predictable.  I can imagine life as a second-class citizen might inspire vindictive thoughts toward the most visible and accessible symbols of one's oppression.

You don't have to agree with the act, but if you ignore the background you're lying to yourself.

This is not going to end well.  Cops are going to act more aggressive out of fear(oh noes, a whole dozen killed in a year?  Is it approaching the odds experienced by the soldiers these guys pretend to be, in the war where they fired the first shots?), which will engender more hatred(rightly) among those they act against, and politicians and frightened mundanes will throw more blind legal, moral and economic support to the police(wrongly).

This is not surprising.  It's the war the cops have always wanted.

Oh, go away.

There is no racial disparity is police shootings.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

This kind of violence is the result you get when people are taught to blame everyone else but themselves for their problems.  When someone attacks another person and gets shot, it's not their fault, it is the fault of police, white people, guns, racism, "stand your ground" laws ad nauseum.  This is the garbage that has been foisted on our country by our media, politicians and the rotten aspects of our culture.

[Angel Eyes]

Clip from the Baton Rouge P.D. press conference:

https://youtu.be/Qr73zQxoHVA

Alleged pic of the murderer, holding what looks like a Tavor:




Police at the press conference said he also had a Stag Arms M4gery.

[De Selby]

Oh, go away.

There is no racial disparity is police shootings.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

This kind of violence is the result you get when people are taught to blame everyone else but themselves for their problems.  When someone attacks another person and gets shot, it's not their fault, it is the fault of police, white people, guns, racism, "stand your ground" laws ad nauseum.  This is the garbage that has been foisted on our country by our media, politicians and the rotten aspects of our culture.

Did you actually read that paper and not just the summary?  I'd be pretty surprised if you did and still posted that.

[BReilley]

Oh, go away.

There is no racial disparity is police shootings.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

This kind of violence is the result you get when people are taught to blame everyone else but themselves for their problems.  When someone attacks another person and gets shot, it's not their fault, it is the fault of police, white people, guns, racism, "stand your ground" laws ad nauseum.  This is the garbage that has been foisted on our country by our media, politicians and the rotten aspects of our culture.

Your own link seems to disagree with you.  I only read the first ten pages or so, but... did you?

Even if your statement were objectively true, I would suggest that if you expect black folk to forget(culturally, not so much individually) about a long history within the US of being considered sub-human, you might as well tell the Jews to stop harping about the Holocaust.  After all, it's been like seventy years... how many living remember it?  Let's move on, amirite?

I'm not going to dig up a study to counter yours.  Your mind is made up and that's fine.  I'm not even as far from you as you probably think - I don't find collective violence to be morally justifiable, so don't agree with.either of these killers(had they targeted the cops who have recently committed murder and walked, I would not so much as shed a tear).  I know that it's possible for someone of any ethnicity to succeed here... but I also have seen that theirs is a rougher road.  I can at least see where they're coming from.

[Perd Hapley]

Did you actually read that paper and not just the summary?  I'd be pretty surprised if you did and still posted that.

The summary states there's no racial disparity in shootings. Are you saying that the summary contradicts what's in the study itself? BTR used the paper as evidence that there's no disparity in shootings. How, specifically, is he wrong?

Keep in mind, the disparity in lower levels of force doesn't contradict the finding that there's no disparity in shootings.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

The introduction summarizes the shooting of Michael Brown by saying that he was shot "after Brown fit the description of a robbery suspect of a nearby store." This must be regarded as intentionally misleading. Way to promote racial healing, Harvard.

[Perd Hapley]

Oops. Looks like I was wrong. From scanning (though not completely reading) the study, it suggests there IS a racial disparity in police shootings. They're more likely to shoot white people.

Sorry 'bout that.

[KD5NRH]

Oops. Looks like I was wrong. From scanning (though not completely reading) the study, it suggests there IS a racial disparity in police shootings. They're more likely to shoot white people.

WHITE LIVES MATTER!  **** THE POLICE!

Or something.

[Perd Hapley]

The study also says a number of times that there is no racial disparity. Interesting, no?

[makattak]

The study also says a number of times that there is no racial disparity. Interesting, no?

Racial disparities only count if it is bad for minorities. Racial disparities that benefit them are not disparities.

(e.g. by the "disparate impact" measure, the NBA is racist against whites.)

[dogmush]

I would posit that it does not matter if there is a racial disparity in police shootingsaid. What matters is that there is a widespread impression of one, and people are acting (and acting out) on that impression.

I would further posit that no amount of white folks explaining, or studies full of academic rigor are likely to sway the demographics which hold and act upon impressions of disparity.

What America needs to do is change the cultural feelings towards police of our poor minorities. Whether the absolute number of folks killed by police changes at all is irrelevant.

[seeker_two]

It's not a racial disparity....it's a cultural disparity. The cultures of barbarism and disrespect for rule of law tend to get more of its members shot than the cultures of civilized and respectful behavior toward others do.