PA - Governor Wolf and House Republicans throw vaping under the bus

[RevDisk]

So, there were problems getting the money for a new budget that was remotely possible. Republicans and Democrats (primarily between House Republicans and the Governor) eventually did unite and compromise. The compromise was throwing nicotine users of all varieties, except cigars, under the bus. Staffers generally directly admitted that cigar industry, wholesalers and lobbyists bribed enough politicians to squeak by.

Vaping folks got nailed the hardest. 40% across the board tax on everything. Including a 40% 'floor inventory' tax that will shutter the majority of vaping related shops on October 1. If your business has any vaping related products, you must pay an alleged one-time tax on all your inventory in stock within 90 days. Manufacturers, distributors, and retailers must obtain licenses from the state in order to sell products in Pennsylvania. Retailers can only purchase products from PA licensed distributors or wholesalers. Which will drive up prices dramatically. Hilariously, because it's extra Kafkaesque, nicotine free vaping liquids are also taxed at 40%. 

You might say, well, people aren't stupid. Sure virtually all of the local businesses will close, but people will go online. Online orders for anything vaping related must pay 40% tax. If you try to blackmarket your supplies by not paying said 40% tax, penalties for evading the tax include up to a $5,000 fine, or prison time not to exceed five years. Consumers are “unclassified importers" in the new tax law. So, let's say you're smart and want to stockpile a horde of supplies. They thought of that too. Section 1207-A(a) will criminalize the ownership of any vape device or e-liquid that wasn’t bought from a licensed Pennsylvania seller, if purchased after Oct 1. So, potentially folks could do prison time if they don't save their receipt. Yay, prison time for folks trying to quit smoking.

Rep. Russ Diamond, R-Lebanon County put it best: "This is simply the tyranny of the majority. For legislators, it's an easy vote. It's a cheap shot at a political constituency that simply doesn't have the numbers to go to the ballot box."

Also included are taxes for Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. Redbox will be a lot more economic after this tax passes. All digital items and services are now subject to a 6% tax.

Cigar tax status:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20160719_In_Pa___cigars_evade_tobacco_tax.html
http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/business/vape-shops-tobacco-users-downloaders-hit-with-taxes-1.2067177

Great headline, "'Sorry about the death': Should Pa. balance its budget off smokers trying to quit?"
http://www.pennlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/07/up_in_smoke_budget_cigarette_t.html

More information:
http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/business/vape-shops-tobacco-users-downloaders-hit-with-taxes-1.2067177

[K Frame]

*expletive deleted*ing Democrats (and yes, I know the Republicans were also behind this, but anymore in Pennsylvania, and many other places, there's simply NO GODDAMNED DIFFERENCE between the two parties anymore).

They blast taxes sky high, and when people respond by altering their "sins" to get around the tax, they start whining about how tax revenue isn't keeping up with projections.

That happened in New York City some years ago when they jammed up prices in the city. People either stopped, or started getting their cigarettes cheaper elsewhere. NYC politicians started crying crocodile tears that just reinforced what big hypocrites they are.

[RevDisk]

Someone brought up an interesting point. This legally would allow the cops to hunt down travelers seen vaping on the highway.

""Unclassified importer." A consumer who purchases tobacco
products using the Internet or mail order catalogs for personal
possession or use in this Commonwealth from persons that are not licensed."

The unclassified importer doesn't have to be a resident. Possession or usage, however temporary, of unlicensed vaping equipment (which does not have to be tobacco or nicotine related) could indeed get a $5000 fine or up to 5 years in prison.


Edit: It's the perfect license for virtually printing money. Snag someone traveling on a highway. Demand proof of licensing of both the vaping unit and the liquid. No license? $5,000 fine. And a gentle reminder that if they fight it, the prosecutor can demand they do 5 years in prison. They might be able to do this for cigarettes, chew, etc as well. I guarantee some cops will see how this pans out. It'd be a gold mine for them.
Edit 2: Rereading the law, I apologize. $5k and up to 30 days in jail for some things. 5 years for other things. Consumers or unclassified importers can fall under either, depending. Businesses are definitely up to 5 years. 30 days is a lot less than 5 years, but I still think it's excessive for folks buying a legal product generally considered safer smoking alternative.

[Ben]

Someone brought up an interesting point. This legally would allow the cops to hunt down travelers seen vaping on the highway.

""Unclassified importer." A consumer who purchases tobacco
products using the Internet or mail order catalogs for personal
possession or use in this Commonwealth from persons that are not licensed."

The unclassified importer doesn't have to be a resident. Possession or usage, however temporary, of unlicensed vaping equipment (which does not have to be tobacco or nicotine related) could indeed get a $5000 fine or up to 5 years in prison.

This just about mirrors the methodology of new ammo registration laws to be enacted in CA. It all goes to what we've mentioned elsewhere here. They don't care about the rule of law. They don't even care much about compliance. In fact, in many cases they are hoping for non-compliance.

It's almost cliche anymore to mention Atlas Shrugged, but here we are, criminals all.

[RevDisk]

I'm very tempted to start a non-partisan lobbying foundation solely dedicated to punishment of these incumbents. Non-violent, obviously. But advocating voting for anyone except the people that voted for this. If you don't want to vote against your party, lobby against them in the primary. Call it "Money and Votes for Anyone Except These Wankers" or equivalent.

[Angel Eyes]

This just about mirrors the methodology of new ammo registration laws to be enacted in CA.

Heh.  I was about to say the same thing.

The compromise was throwing nicotine users of all varieties, except cigars, under the bus. Staffers generally directly admitted that cigar industry, wholesalers and lobbyists bribed enough politicians to squeak by.

Pipe tobacco gets hit as well?

[KD5NRH]

I'm very tempted to start a non-partisan lobbying foundation solely dedicated to punishment of these incumbents. Non-violent, obviously. But advocating voting for anyone except the people that voted for this.

Careful; they'll find a way to tax and/or criminalize anti-incumbent propaganda, too.

Should be entertaining the first time some out-of-stater with the funds and attitude to fight gets tagged while passing through with a moderate personal collection of mods, tanks and juice.

[roo_ster]

It had become glaringly ob iojs our country does not use enough tar and feathers and\or rooe and lamp posts.

[TommyGunn]

It had become glaringly ob iojs our country does not use enough tar and feathers and\or rooe and lamp posts.

I think you've been smoking something stronger than tobacco.......either that, or your spellcheck has.

[KD5NRH]

The unclassified importer doesn't have to be a resident. Possession or usage, however temporary, of unlicensed vaping equipment (which does not have to be tobacco or nicotine related) could indeed get a $5000 fine or up to 5 years in prison.

What about self-builds?  A VV mod ain't exactly rocket surgery, and anyone with access to a good SMD soldering station could make some pretty nice ones.

Have a friend who did just that when his employer decided to outsource most of their R&D, and he suddenly had all the after-hours play time he wanted on the now-unused Weller rework station and laser engraver.  For a while, he had a nice sideline cranking out custom-engraved CVV mods in the evenings.  His cost per unit was around $20, and a vape shop on his way home would give him $80 for them, sell them for $120 and beg for more.

[roo_ster]

I think you've been smoking something stronger than tobacco.......either that, or your spellcheck has.

I was so angered by the vaping tax my fingers were quivering with rage so I could barely type into my fart smone.   

[wmenorr67]

Those that have access to military bases can go there, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

[Hawkmoon]

They blast taxes sky high, and when people respond by altering their "sins" to get around the tax, they start whining about how tax revenue isn't keeping up with projections.

QFT

[Hawkmoon]

Someone brought up an interesting point. This legally would allow the cops to hunt down travelers seen vaping on the highway.

""Unclassified importer." A consumer who purchases tobacco
products using the Internet or mail order catalogs for personal
possession or use in this Commonwealth from persons that are not licensed."

This does not appear to encompass people traveling through PA from other states, or PA residents who physically drive to adjoining states to purchase their contraband. Is there some additional language that you left out? The portion you cited is very clearly and specifically limited to Internat and mail order catalog purchases.

[KD5NRH]

This does not appear to encompass people traveling through PA from other states, or PA residents who physically drive to adjoining states to purchase their contraband. Is there some additional language that you left out? The portion you cited is very clearly and specifically limited to Internat and mail order catalog purchases.

Section 1207-A(a) will criminalize the ownership of any vape device or e-liquid that wasn’t bought from a licensed Pennsylvania seller, if purchased after Oct 1.

[Calumus]

 So what? Now I have to laminate a receipt for my mod and carry it with me? Do I need to buy a separate mod for each northern state I travel through? When I hit a state border should I stop and throw away my $200 mod so I don't enter the state with contraband, or can I go online and buy a tax stamp so its Pa legal? This is idiocy. Timing also sucks as well. My friend and I have been working on a juice line. We've got 4 flavors set to go, and then the FDA ruling comes down. Now this.

[KD5NRH]

My friend and I have been working on a juice line. We've got 4 flavors set to go, and then the FDA ruling comes down.

Thermal fog machine fluid.  http://www.killsometime.com/videos/19466/Vaping-On-a-400-Watt-Fog-Machine

Granted, you'll need to sell it by the gallon, but maybe it could be the one brand I don't have to use at 36mg/mL to significantly cut down on cigs.

[Calumus]

Thermal fog machine fluid.  http://www.killsometime.com/videos/19466/Vaping-On-a-400-Watt-Fog-Machine

Granted, you'll need to sell it by the gallon, but maybe it could be the one brand I don't have to use at 36mg/mL to significantly cut down on cigs.

How much did you smoke? If you're still on 36mg you were either a 3 pack a day guy, or you're vaping with something with an output resembling a Blucig.. What exactly are you vaping with?

[zxcvbob]

So why don't people just buy cured tobacco leaves direct from Amish farmers?  I bought a few pounds about 10 years ago when I wanted to learn to roll my own cigars, like Jimmy Stewart in "Shenandoah".  And I think they were from Pennsylvania.  Or has that been outlawed too?  I still have most of it around here somewhere, should still be good (but dried out) if moths or weevils haven't found it. 

It would be very easy to shred to use for a pipe or cigarettes.  It's not hard to grow your own, but curing it into something actually worth smoking is tricky.

[RevDisk]

I plan on stockpiling enough to last me 5 years.

5ml per day is 1825ml per year. Call it 2000 for spillage or whatnot. Bulk purchase of 12mg or 18mg 50/50 VG/PG is $10 per 500ml. $40 per year. $200 for 5 year supply. Not sure how long it lasts in the freezer.

100mg (10% nicotine) is not mucher cheaper but you have to then mix it yourself. $35 for 100mg 500ml and 7x 500ml at $6 is 4000ml for $77. Not much savings for more work. Though I'm told 100mg 90% VG lasts longer in storage. I'll look into nitrogen purging and vacuum bagging.

Math, chemistry and capitalism are necessary to fight prohibitionist bipartisan scum. Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to the Gods.

So why don't people just buy cured tobacco leaves direct from Amish farmers?  I bought a few pounds about 10 years ago when I wanted to learn to roll my own cigars, like Jimmy Stewart in "Shenandoah".  And I think they were from Pennsylvania.  Or has that been outlawed too?  I still have most of it around here somewhere, should still be good (but dried out) if moths or weevils haven't found it.  

It would be very easy to shred to use for a pipe or cigarettes.  It's not hard to grow your own, but curing it into something actually worth smoking is tricky.

Roll your own tobacco tax jumped from $1.10 per pound to $24.78 per pound in 2009. Yes, that was a 2252.72% tax increase. Lot of the Founders grew tobacco. Wonder what their response to a 2252.72% tax hike would have been.

[Jamisjockey]

Damn I just love how free we are in America.  It's awesome.

[zxcvbob]

I plan on stockpiling enough to last me 5 years.

5ml per day is 1825ml per year. Call it 2000 for spillage or whatnot. Bulk purchase of 12mg or 18mg 50/50 VG/PG is $10 per 500ml. $40 per year. $200 for 5 year supply. Not sure how long it lasts in the freezer.

100mg (10% nicotine) is not mucher cheaper but you have to then mix it yourself. $35 for 100mg 500ml and 7x 500ml at $6 is 4000ml for $77. Not much savings for more work. Though I'm told 100mg 90% VG lasts longer in storage. I'll look into nitrogen purging and vacuum bagging.

Math, chemistry and capitalism are necessary to fight prohibitionist bipartisan scum. Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to the Gods.

I still have half a bottle of Black Leaf 40 (nicotine sulfate, 40%) I'll sell you.  You can't buy the stuff in stores anymore because it's so toxic (only consumer pesticide I've ever seen with the DANGER warning label and a ☠ instead of CAUTION or WARNING).  You'll have to work out the dosage yourself, and you better be careful.

[RoadKingLarry]

On the other hand, studies have shown that vaping increases the risk of cervical cancer in men by 74%.

[RevDisk]

I still have half a bottle of Black Leaf 40 (nicotine sulfate, 40%) I'll sell you.  You can't buy the stuff in stores anymore because it's so toxic (only consumer pesticide I've ever seen with the DANGER warning label and a ☠ instead of CAUTION or WARNING).  You'll have to work out the dosage yourself, and you better be careful.

 

I appreciate that, but unfortunately I stick with USP grade nicotine myself.

On the other hand, studies have shown that vaping increases the risk of cervical cancer in men by 74%.

Indeed. Because lower cost, higher efficiency, more compact storage, more environmental resistance and significantly reduced health risks are indeed are not manly traits.

Yep. You got us. Good one. Very original! So much creativity, and yet subtle.

[KD5NRH]

How much did you smoke? If you're still on 36mg you were either a 3 pack a day guy, or you're vaping with something with an output resembling a Blucig.. What exactly are you vaping with?

Pack a day Camels, sometimes pulling the filters out.  And Protank 3 on a VV battery, though since I bumped up from a 2, I'm usually satisfied with 24mg and somewhere in the neighborhood of 4V.