Trump's Second Amendment Comment

[Hawkmoon]

Quote from: BTR on Today at 10:09:04 AM

“When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families"

-Trump

Point taken. I forgot about that.

Of course, the current administration never does anything like that.



Do they?

[JN01]

Earlier in the year, Clinton commented that she was most proud of having the NRA as an enemy.  Was that a veiled threat against its members?

[Angel Eyes]

Earlier in the year, Clinton commented that she was most proud of having the NRA as an enemy.  Was that a veiled threat against its members?

I wouldn't say it was veiled ...

[BlueStarLizzard]

Ben, I'm going to have to nitpick.

Reagan was an actor (with more lines that "I'll be back") . He was a professional speaker, just not a political one (before he got into politics)

[MechAg94]

I agree with your sentiment, but having non-professional politicians doesn't mean they have to be crappy speakers. Whether you like or hate them and what they say, a sample of somewhat recent "non-professionals" who jumped into politics and spoke/speak eloquently, or at least clearly:

Reagan
Obama
Fred Thompson
Even Arnold "English is my second language" Schwarzenegger managed to get his points across about 300% better than Trump.

I don't expect perfection by Trump, but he's been told 100 million times by now that he needs to engage his brain before putting his mouth in gear. He needs to use strict talking points for stuff he doesn't fully grasp, which is pretty much everything except the economy and infrastructure. I have heard several of his talks on both those subjects, and he generally does a very good job discussing them off the cuff and off script. Not so much other stuff.

I do fully recognize that the media has it in for him and that they have misrepresented / taken out of context what he has said probably ten times more often than he has legitimately screwed up.

Perhaps speaking ability is not one of my most important attributes.  I tend to pay more attention to what they say.  I refuse to dismiss a candidate just because I wasn't bowled over by their great speech.  

My main point in all this is I like that Trump doesn't seem to focus group every word he says.  So I try to avoid over-analyzing every syllable he utters since I know he is going to misspeak or not get his point across quite so well sometimes.  I can live with that.  It might mean we get better candidates who speak their minds more when running for office.  

[Monkeyleg]

With Hillary as the media's candidate for this election, any of the Republican candidates would have been savaged by the press just as Trump has been. I've heard Mitt Romney described as the nicest guy who ever ran for president, but that didn't stop the media from going bonkers over him putting the dog in its kennel cage on top of the car, for having a "file" of women, for laying off hundreds or thousands of people (which he didn't do), and a zillion other things.

The media attacks on Trump are at record levels, though. Even the media admits that. A columnist in the NY Times yesterday or the day before wrote about how the media has gone further than ever in attacking the Republican candidate. He justifies it, though, by saying that Trump is a danger to this country, and it's the media's duty to stop Trump. I thought that was Hillary's task.

I didn't think anything of his comment on the Second Amendment, because there was nothing to think about. Ditto with his jokes about the baby, about the fire marshall, and any of the other "scandalous" comments. He's nowhere near as acerbic as he was in the primaries. If anything, he's not being hard enough on Hillary.

[freakazoid]

What's rather ironic, I think, is how we have all these SJW who actually do call for killing of white people, gun owners, hunters, etc.

[Pb]

Of course the media would viciously attack an republican candidate.  However, with most of the candidates, they would have to use lies to do so.  Trump really is a slimy, corrupt liar with no principles, and many media attacks against him are accurate.  Most of my family is very conservative and we don't like him at all.  He is losing the military vote, a traditionally republican demographic. 

He is a TERRIBLE candidate for the general election. 

[makattak]

Of course the media would viciously attack an republican candidate.  However, with most of the candidates, they would have to use lies to do so.  Trump really is a slimy, corrupt liar with no principles, and many media attacks against him are accurate.  Most of my family is very conservative and we don't like him at all.  He is losing the military vote, a traditionally republican demographic. 

He is a TERRIBLE candidate for the general election.

Fixed that for you.

Of course the media would viciously attack an republican candidate.  However, with most of the candidates, they would have to use lies to do so.  Trump really is a slimy, corrupt liar with no principles, and many media attacks against him are accurate.  Most of my family is very conservative and we don't like him at all.  He is losing the military vote, a traditionally republican demographic. 

He is a TERRIBLE candidate for the general election person.

Fixed it again.

The only question in this election is if you can vote for a terrible person and candidate and then which one (if you're choosing between the four biggest parties, I don't know beyond those four.)

I've found my limit this election. I still hope Trump wins, but I cannot give him my vote.

[roo_ster]

I find it amusing for someone supporting Trump to claim someone else's candidate is a sociopath.

Yeah, that's been Cruz's track record, stepping on anyone in his way to get what he wants...

You are mistaking drive to succeed and a lack of "Midwestern Nice" for sociopathy.  Trump's demeanor is very much like the northeastern transplants I spent some years with growing up with.  Ethnic Italian/Jewish/whatever sorts from urban megalopolises exhibit a much more aggressive, verbal, in-your-face attitude; as well as more conscious displays/strutting.  The former appears gauche and the latter appears mildly comical to those brought up in more stoic subcultures.  OTOH, they are not going to roll over and let you bugger them the way so many midwestern folk let outsiders get after them.

And drive to succeed is what it is.  Some folk have it, some understand it, and some fear it.

Trump is obviously not a sociopath due to his documented interaction with humans that express sympathy/empathy and reciprocation:
1. Loyalty to allies, friends, and employees to the point he takes political and/or monetary damage from it.
2. Ever listen to his ex-wives?  They are positively disposed toward him despite his failings.
3. Decades-long friends, especially with peers, who don't depend on him for a paycheck.
4. Trump's kiddos' attitude toward their dad is not what I have experienced with the children of sociopaths. 
5. Documented group loyalty to his old-fashioned notion of America.

FTR, I do not consider Cruz's drive toward success as sociopathic.  Sure, it can be, but drive by itself is not enough.  I do consider his uncanny valley learned-not-instinctive smile and facial expressions a problem, as well as his complete lack of friends to be indicative of an emotional vacuum at his core.

Early on Cruz was pretty much my choice. Like with Hillary though, the more I actually saw and listened to him the less I liked him. He was good on paper for the most part. His demeanor and weakness on immigration is what lost me.

Almost precisely how I ended up voting for Trump in the primaries.  On paper, Cruz looked great.  The creepifying reality, not so much.  That taught me a lesson that I need to get video of any candidate I may support.  Not to see if they are good on teevee, but to take their measure when interacting with other humans.

And of course Cruz was weak on immigration and trade, just one more globalist errand-boy once you got past the verbal squid ink.

[Perd Hapley]

I saw Cruz speak in person, and didn't get any of the creepy vibes some people got. Sure, he's not pretty, but then, neither are the two that made it to the general.

[Ron]

Of course the media would viciously attack an republican candidate.  However, with most of the candidates, they would have to use lies to do so.  Trump really is a slimy, corrupt liar with no principles, and many media attacks against him are accurate.  Most of my family is very conservative and we don't like him at all.  He is losing the military vote, a traditionally republican demographic.  

He is a TERRIBLE candidate for the general election.  

The most recent poll I've seen is a Military Times poll showing Trump beating Hillary by a 2 to 1 margin among the enlisted.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/election/2016/07/17/military-times-survey-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/87024898/

[Hawkmoon]

He is losing the military vote, a traditionally republican demographic. 

Source?

[Ron]

Which of the two is a better gamble on second amendment issues? Trump or Hillary?

Which of the two is a better gamble on Supreme Court picks? Trump or Hillary?

Which of the two is a better gamble on economic issues? Trump or Hillary?

Which of the two has a history of supporting military adventurism in the middle east? Trump or Hillary?

Which of the two stands a better chance of if not protecting unborn babies at least stopping our government from financially supporting the baby killing business?

These are the questions that haunt me and make me consider the unthinkable...voting for Trump.

[Ben]

These are the questions that haunt me and make me consider the unthinkable...voting for Trump.

You and me both, brother.

At this point, I honestly don't know what I'm going to do. I probably will still be unsure when I receive my ballot. I will be unsure the minute before I bubble in / write in my choice. I will be unsure the minute after I bubble in / write in my choice.

Even with Bush term 2, which I was not at all pleased with, I was at least sure that I was holding my nose and voting.

[MechAg94]

I voted for McCain.  If I can stomach that, voting for Trump is easy.   

[MechAg94]

I saw Cruz speak in person, and didn't get any of the creepy vibes some people got. Sure, he's not pretty, but then, neither are the two that made it to the general.

ro_oster has been saying that for months.  I don't see it either.  I just figured it was because he was always a Trump guy and didn't have anything else to say about Cruz.  


From another perspective, it is a symptom of another problem with modern politics.  We expect all our politicians to be tall and good looking and look great on TV.  Why is that required? 

[Ron]

ro_oster has been saying that for months.  I don't see it either.  I just figured it was because he was always a Trump guy and didn't have anything else to say about Cruz.  


From another perspective, it is a symptom of another problem with modern politics.  We expect all our politicians to be tall and good looking and look great on TV.  Why is that required? 

Myself, I wanted to like Cruz but there was something about him that I found off putting. He lined up with me on paper well.

His dismal handling of Trump tells me he isn't Presidential timber. Trump magnanimously even let him non endorse him at the convention he considered him such a non entity. Trump made Cruz into his little bitch. We've already had one of those as President for eight years.

[roo_ster]

ro_oster has been saying that for months.  I don't see it either.  I just figured it was because he was always a Trump guy and didn't have anything else to say about Cruz.  

From another perspective, it is a symptom of another problem with modern politics.  We expect all our politicians to be tall and good looking and look great on TV.  Why is that required? 

Do a search.  I am on the record saying that I think Cruz was not only the smartest guy running in 2016, but likely the smartest guy to run in a long time.  And that before Trump, he was my #1 pick.  After Trump, my #2 pick.

I don't expect Cruz or any particular candidate to be great on teevee, but I get the same vibe off him as I did off some sociopaths I have encountered.  And his lack of personal relationships that show sympathy/empathy, or loyalty does not speak well of him.  At first I wrote it off as nerdiness, but it seems to run deeper than that.

[makattak]

FTR, I do not consider Cruz's drive toward success as sociopathic.  Sure, it can be, but drive by itself is not enough.  I do consider his uncanny valley learned-not-instinctive smile and facial expressions a problem, as well as his complete lack of friends to be indicative of an emotional vacuum at his core.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/us/politics/ted-cruz-college-roommate.html

[MechAg94]

Do a search.  I am on the record saying that I think Cruz was not only the smartest guy running in 2016, but likely the smartest guy to run in a long time.  And that before Trump, he was my #1 pick.  After Trump, my #2 pick.

I don't expect Cruz or any particular candidate to be great on teevee, but I get the same vibe off him as I did off some sociopaths I have encountered.  And his lack of personal relationships that show sympathy/empathy, or loyalty does not speak well of him.  At first I wrote it off as nerdiness, but it seems to run deeper than that.

You are the only one I have ever heard comment about his personal relationships.  I have heard several people who know him talk about him and never heard any say anything bad.  I heard a comment from one of his law school professors saying he was one of a handful they would mention as the smartest people who came through their school in their career.  I don't think you are bothering to look.

[roo_ster]

You are the only one I have ever heard comment about his personal relationships.  I have heard several people who know him talk about him and never heard any say anything bad.  I heard a comment from one of his law school professors saying he was one of a handful they would mention as the smartest people who came through their school in their career.  I don't think you are bothering to look.

Alan Dershowitz was the law prof who praised his intelligence.  It helped confirm the assessment of Cruz's intelligence I had made while he was Texas's solicitor general & senator.  Part of the reason he was my #1 pick before Trump jumped in.  I also recall when Michael Ledeen was singing Cruz's praises in NR when Cruz was running for US Senate.  IOW, I looked plenty.  

mak linked to his college room mate.  I had forgotten about him, but read it when it was first written.  So, I withdraw the "completely" from my post time stamped 10:32:03.



 

[RoadKingLarry]

Myself, I wanted to like Cruz but there was something about him that I found off putting. He lined up with me on paper well.

His dismal handling of Trump tells me he isn't Presidential timber. Trump magnanimously even let him non endorse him at the convention he considered him such a non entity. Trump made Cruz into his little bitch. We've already had one of those as President for eight years.

I was a Cruz supporter, voted for in our primary. Something about him just felt "off" the more I saw of him though. His displays of desperation towards the end of the primary really soured him for me. That and I just kept getting a sort of Nehemiah Scudder kind of vibe off of him.

[Hawkmoon]

From another perspective, it is a symptom of another problem with modern politics.  We expect all our politicians to be tall and good looking and look great on TV.  Why is that required? 

I certainly don't expect all politicians to be tall and good looking, and since I don't watch television I don't care how telegenic they are or aren't. But IMHO it still helps a lot to not look like a weasel with a perpetual sneer.

[grampster]

My first choice was Rand Paul.  Then I started to lean toward Crux.  One night I'm up late and channel surfing and I run across Cruz being interviewed by someone.   Cruz started droning on and on and it began to sound like he was some sort of mechanical thing someone put a quarter in it and flipped the on switch.  It was really weird, but I never was able to look at him or listen to him the same way again.

I don't agree or disagree with all of Cruz's views, but I think him to be extremely bright and he is definitely, in my view, a constitutionalist.  But after that night I just....couldn't handle him anymore.  Probably very shallow of me.  He may have made a good president.

Sometimes I think in our Republic the right person shows up at the right time and we are moved forward in a positive way or the system becomes more corrupt.  There are always lessons.  I have no idea for sure where we are now, except Hillary Clinton might just be the final nail in the coffin as the useful idiots will bow to her every desire and the oligarchy will become strengthened.  As for Trump, he may push us in the right direction and he will be opposed at every step by the media, the D's and GOPe.   That might be a good thing because maybe America will wake up to what we have lost and reinforce what we may gain.  Trump is at least a hope for the Republic when viewed against the alternative.  That says nothing about the SCOTUS reality with Hillary.