Author Topic: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser  (Read 2980 times)

Desertdog

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Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« on: December 01, 2006, 05:48:56 AM »
Quote
Organizers made the changes after one parent charged that she and others in the community were offended that the Parent Teacher Association at the Sanfordville Elementary School was sponsoring a program geared toward one religion.
What religion would that be?  I do not believe that person/s has any idea what religion, is if Santa is a "religious figure."

Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200611/CUL20061130e.html

(CNSNews.com) - A Christmas-themed event to raise money at a public elementary school in Warwick, N.Y., has been altered to accommodate a parent's complaints that the program would illegally spotlight a "religious" figure - Santa Claus.

"Breakfast With Santa" has since been changed to "Winter Wonderland Breakfast," and -- in an effort to be inclusive of all beliefs -- the bearded one will now be joined at the Dec. 9 event by Frosty the Snowman.

Organizers made the changes after one parent charged that she and others in the community were offended that the Parent Teacher Association at the Sanfordville Elementary School was sponsoring a program geared toward one religion.

That parent, who did not wish to have her name used, wrote a letter to the school board asserting that Santa represents Christmas -- a Christian holiday -- and by law, a public school is not allowed to promote religion.

According to the Warwick Advertiser, the PTA offered to include Hanukkah traditions in the event, but the parent said she felt this still wasn't fair because it included religious activities.

"I look forward to sponsoring an event that is within the law and inclusive of all," the parent wrote in a letter to the school superintendent, Dr. Frank Greenhall. "This is not an argument about religion; it is about the law of our land. Discrimination is simply detestable."

Greenhall then contacted an attorney, who advised him in a letter that the district "should, at a minimum, modify the events to avoid potential litigation."

The complainant suggested Frosty the Snowman as an alternative icon, and the school eventually agreed to have both Frosty and Santa.

Mike Johnson, senior legal counsel for the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, told Cybercast News Service the situation was "just absurd."

"My general reaction is probably the same as 95 percent of Americans when they hear about something like this," Johnson said. "It's ridiculous that we have to think twice about whether it's OK to celebrate Christmas in public."

While acknowledging that Saint Nicholas, a Dutch bishop who had a reputation for giving gifts in secret, "clearly was the original figure that Santa is based upon," he noted that "most people would recognize Santa Claus himself as a secular-type figure."

"The underlying principle here is that the First Amendment does not guarantee any of us a right not to be offended," Johnson said. "These radical leftist types are arguing that just because 95 percent of Americans, according to recent polling, celebrate Christmas, they ought not to have that right" since a person with a different view might object.

"There's probably a small percentage of evangelical Christians in this country who don't celebrate Halloween, but would any of these leftists argue that Christians have a right to ruin the party for everyone who wants to celebrate it?" Johnson asked. "Do they have the right to tell you that you can't wish them a happy Halloween? Of course not.

"This is ultimately about religious liberty," Johnson asserted. "Everyone's rights and beliefs should be respected, and no one should be discriminated against."

Darlene Baratto, who is chairing the PTA event, told the Advertiser that, since it falls on a Saturday and attendance is optional, no one is being discriminated against.

"We have a beautiful background people can have a picture in front of," Baratto said. "That wasn't good enough. We changed the name, colors, the background," but that did not satisfy the complaining parent. "She was not open to anything. We'll have 300 or so kids who are disappointed."

Lisa Roca, another member of the breakfast committee, disputed the idea that Santa was anything but a secular character.

"Many churches try to take Santa out of Christmas because he is secular, not religious," she told the newspaper. "Their Christmas plays have nothing to do with Santa."

Catholic League President Bill Donohue called the events at the school an "exercise in tyranny."

"There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution, of course, that bans 'Breakfast with Santa' from taking place in a public school," Donohue said in a statement. "This has nothing to do with the law -- it has everything to do with bowing to the pressure of bigots."

A number of calls to the school and the PTA seeking comment for this article were not returned by press time.

K Frame

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2006, 08:01:07 AM »
South Park did an episode about this very thing a few years ago...
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MechAg94

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2006, 11:44:11 AM »
What about Hanky the Christmas Poo?
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carterbeauford

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2006, 01:00:30 PM »
Reminds me of the Ali G rountable on religion.

"why did Jesus go 'round wif all dem reindeer?"

If you've not seen the show or don't know who Ali G is this isn't going to make much sense.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2006, 01:21:07 PM »
Anyone care to bet that the complaining parent also believes that the Electoral College should be abolished, because it's not true democracy?


Dannyboy

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2006, 06:00:54 PM »
Anyone care to bet that the complaining parent also believes that the Electoral College should be abolished, because it's not true democracy?

Hell, I'd bet that the whiner doesn't even know what the Electoral College is.
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

Eleven Mike

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2006, 09:51:42 AM »
Quote
While acknowledging that Saint Nicholas, a Dutch bishop who had a reputation for giving gifts in secret, "clearly was the original figure that Santa is based upon," he noted that "most people would recognize Santa Claus himself as a secular-type figure."

Nope.  Bishop of Myra, in present-day Turkey.  He is also confused with Kris Kringle and Father Christmas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kringle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Christmas

Santa Claus is just as religious as Christmas, or as secular.  To make a distinction between Claus and Christmas is silly.  If your Christmas celebration involves merely a tree and a big, fat, red guy bringing presents, then your "Christmas" is about secular Western culture/pop culture.  If your Christmas celebration involves a nativity scene and the story of the real Saint Nicholas, then your Christmas is religious. 

Last I knew, no one's child was ever catechized or converted to another religion by the pop-culture/Coca-Cola Santa Claus. 

Iapetus

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 04:03:00 AM »
Well, Santa Claus knows whether people are good or bad...

He rewards those who believe in him, assuming they have been "good"...

People leave offerings to him under the Christmas tree...

He is able to appear anywhere in the world, all over the course of one night...



Clearly, Santa Claus is, in fact, a god.  Wink

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2006, 09:31:02 AM »
Quote
Well, Santa Claus knows whether people are good or bad...

He rewards those who believe in him, assuming they have been "good"...

People leave offerings to him under the Christmas tree...

He is able to appear anywhere in the world, all over the course of one night...



Clearly, Santa Claus is, in fact, a god. 


Yes, but he wouldn't be the Christian god.  Which should make it just fine to include him in public displays as a sign of "diversity".  rolleyes
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HankB

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2006, 09:40:44 AM »
Quote
. . . That parent, who did not wish to have her name used, . . .
IF she even exists, and isn't the result of fabrication on the part of someone on the school administration.

IMHO ALL the students and parents ought to BOYCOTT the entire fundraiser unless this miscreant is identified, so she may be cheered or jeered - as appropriate - by the majority of the people her anonymous complaint is upsetting.
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LAK

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 02:35:35 AM »
Again, go find some primitive third world land mass, conquer it - and create a national culture of your own, and stop trying to change ours.

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gunsmith

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 11:59:27 AM »
I am so sick of this kind of stuff.
Kids can't have Santa Clause but
the school that denies them childhood
also wants them to ponder
gender identification at 7 years old.

A song from my ill spent youth came to mind,the war on childhood and Christmas has been around
for a while, it has reached a  crescendo  because the new left hippies are in charge.

The Pause of Mr. Claus
words and music by Arlo Guthrie

This next song we're going to dedicate to a great American
organization. Tonight I'd like to dedicate this to our boys
in the FBI.

Well, wait a minute. It's hard to be an FBI man. I mean, first
of all, being an FBI man, you have to be over 40 years old.
And the reason is that it takes at least 25 years with the
organization to be that much of a bastard. It's true. You just
can't join, you know. It needs an atmosphere where your
natural bastardness can grow and develop and take a
meaningful shape in today's complex society.

But that's not why I want to dedicate the song to the FBI. I
mean, the job that they have to do is a drag. I mean, they have
to follow people around, you know. That's part of their job.
Follow me around.

I'm out on the highway and I'm drivin' down the road and I
run out of gasoline. I pull over to the side of the road. They
gotta pull over too - make believe that they ran out, you
know.

I go to get some gasoline. They have to figure out whether
they should stick with the car or follow me. Suppose I don't
come back and they're stayin' with the car.

Or if I fly on the airplanes, I could fly half fare because I'm 12
to 22. And they gotta pay the full fare. But the thing is that
when you pay the full fare, you have to get on the airplane
first, so that they know how many seats are left over for the
half fare kids. Right? And sometimes there aren't any seats
left over, and sometimes there are, but that doesn't mean that
you have to go.

Suppose that he gets on and fills up the last seat, so you can't
get on. Then he gets off then you can get on. What's he gonna
do?

Well, it's a drag for him. But that's not why I want to dedicate
the song to the FBI.

During these hard days and hard weeks, everybody always
has it bad once in a while. You know, you have a bad time of
it, and you always have a friend who says "Hey man, you
ain't got it that bad. Look at that guy." And you at that
guy, and he's got it worse than you. And it makes you feel
better that there's somebody that's got it worse than you.

But think of the last guy. For one minute, think of the last
guy. Nobody's got it worse than that guy. Nobody in the
whole world. That guy...he's so alone in the world that he
doesn't even have a street to lay in for a truck to run him over.
He's out there with nothin'. Nothin's happenin' for that cat.

And all that he has to do to create a little excitement in his
own life is to bum a dime from somewhere, call up the FBI.
Say "FBl?", they say "Yes", say "I think Uncle Ho and Chair-
man Mao and their friends are comin' over for dinner" (click)
Hang up the phone.

And within two minutes, and not two minutes from when he
hangs up the phone, but two minutes from when he first put
the dime in, they got 30,000 feet of tape rollin'; files on tape;
pictures, movies, dramas, actions on tape. But then they send
out a half a million people all over the entire world, the globe,
they find out all they can about this guy.

'Cause there's a number of questions involved in the guy. I
mean, if he was the last guy in the world, how'd he get a dime
to call the FBI? There are plenty of people that aren't the last
guys that can't get dimes. He comes along and he gets a dime.

I mean, if he had to bum a dime to call the FBI, how was he
gonna serve dinner for all of those people? How could the
last guy make dinner for all those people. And if he could
make dinner, and was gonna make dinner, then why did he
call the FBI?

They find out all of those questions within two minutes. And
that's a great thing about America. I mean, this is the only
country in the world...l mean, well, it's not the only country
in the world that could find stuff out in two minutes, but it's
the only country in the world that would take two minutes
for that guy.

Other countries would say "Hey, he's the last guy...screw
him", you know? But in America, there is no discrimination,
and there is no hypocrisy,'cause they'll get anybody. And that's
a  wonderful thing about America.

And that's why tonight I'd like to dedicate it to every FBI
man in the audience. I know you can't say nothin', you know,
you can't get up and say "Hi!" cause then everybody knows
that you're an FBI man and that's a drag for you and your
friends.

They're not really your friends, are they? I mean, so you can't
get up and say nothin' 'cause other wise, you gotta get sent
back to the factory and that's a drag for you and it's an
expense for the government, and that's a drag for you.

We're gonna sing you this Christmas carol. It's for all you
bastards out there in the audience tonight. It's called "The
Pause of Mr. Claus".

Why do you sit there so strange?
Is it because you are beautiful?
You must think you are deranged
Why do police guys beat on peace guys?

You must think Santa Clause weird
He has long hair and a beard
Giving his presents for free
Why do police guys mess with peace guys?

Let's get Santa Clause 'cause;
Santa Clause has a red suit
He's a communist
And a beard, and long hair
Must be a pacifist
What's in the pipe that he's smoking?

Mister Clause sneaks in your home at night.
He must be a dope fiend, to put you up tight
Why do police guys beat on peace guys?

©1968,1969 Appleseed Music Inc. (ASCAP
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cordex

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2006, 05:45:18 AM »
Heh.  When people want to use Christmas or Easter in school they're just secular holidays with no religious (Christian, Pagan, whatever) pretext.  Then when folks start to treat it like a secular holiday, it becomes a hugely important religious (Christian, Pagan, whatever) Holy Day and other folks get offended.

This is what happens when you try to base a national celebration on a semi-religious, pseudo-Christian, Pagan holiday in a country that values freedom of religion.

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2006, 05:59:28 AM »
I think you're a touch off, cordex. It's more a case of "this is what happens when people feel they need to be offended by SOMETHING"...

 

cordex

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2006, 11:45:23 AM »
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I think you're a touch off, cordex. It's more a case of "this is what happens when people feel they need to be offended by SOMETHING"...
If your point is that people will always be offended by stupid little things, then you're right.  But that goes both ways.

I can't understand why someone would complain about Santa at a school fund-raiser.  That's a pretty insignificant thing.  Then again, being up in arms about the loss of our "national culture" because Santa won't be there is pretty petty too.

This Scrooge thinks that Santa is a silly commercial icon (extremely appropriate for a fund raiser, come to think of it) for a silly commercial holiday.  In my opinion, becoming upset about either his presence or absence at a fund raiser is really reaching for things to get offended about.  I can see reasons for wanting to have a Santa character there (as incentive for people to come and give money) and reasons against it (his presence may be a disincentive for people who have an objection to him, thus ditching him might bring in more money).

Perd Hapley

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2006, 11:48:37 AM »
Except that the objection to Santa Claus is his religious significance (and yes, he does have some if you look for it.)  And except that this is not an isolated incident. 
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cordex

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Re: Santa Claus Deemed Too 'Religious' for School Fundraiser
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2006, 06:06:49 AM »
Fistful,
I do not disagree with either the fact that the character that the modern day, American Santa is loosely based on had a religious significance at one time or the fact that this isn't the first time someone has gotten upset about Christmas, but I'm not sure what conclusion you've reached from these points.