Author Topic: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher  (Read 8360 times)

MechAg94

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Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« on: September 20, 2016, 10:25:14 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/video-of-tulsa-police-shooting-terence-crutcher-sparks-outrage-171856828.html

Yahoo news had this on there news headlines.  The video is a partial video from a helicopter.  It does not show the entire incident from what I saw.  Whether this turns into another spark for protests I have no idea.  


The NYT link has dashcam footage, but it has no sound from the officers so you can't see what happened. 
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/us/video-released-in-terence-crutchers-killing-by-tulsa-police.html?_r=0
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/us/oklahoma-tulsa-police-shooting/index.html
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MechAg94

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 10:44:29 PM »
Quote
In an interview, Officer Shelby’s lawyer, Scott Wood, said the officer had thought that Mr. Crutcher had a weapon. Mr. Wood said Mr. Crutcher had acted erratically, refused to comply with several orders, tried to put his hand in his pocket and reached inside his car window before he was shot.

Okay question for the group:  if they already had him at gun point near the one police cruiser, why would they walk him back to his own vehicle?  Just have him put his hands on the cruiser and cuff him there. 

On the other side, none of the video shows clearly what is happening at the time he was shot so none of the questions are answered.  The reports keep saying he had his hands up before being shot, but I am not sure how relevant that is. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

HeroHog

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 11:34:13 PM »
I believe I read somewhere it might have been an ND I think?
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 11:39:37 PM »
Well, so far no riots Peaceful protests in Tulsa.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2016, 02:45:32 AM »
Heard a "report" on it.and watched the video.
My opinion from info from the report and video.
Guy was non-compliant, had shook off a Taser, was walking away from cops who were ordering him to stop. Guy reaches or attempts to reach into his vehicle. Game over.

Messed up deal either way.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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wmenorr67

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2016, 07:27:18 AM »
First officer on the scene was a female, who fired the fatal shot.

Officers were actually responding to another call when this guy was found to be "broke down" in the middle of the road.

Window to the SUV was up, PCP was supposedly found in the SUV. 

As RKL stated, so far all the protests have been non-violent.


The more interesting situation is now in Charlotte. 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/21/at-least-12-charlotte-cops-injured-in-protests-following-officer-involved-death-black-man.html
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2016, 07:46:09 AM »
I'm kind of interested to see if we hear more about the failed TASER use.
I'd kind of like to know if it was a case of the TASER malfunctioning, improper deployment or if the guy simply shook it off because he was seriously hopped up.
Or, if the early report of the TASER use was an error.


Quote
so far all the protests have been non-violent.

I heard this morning that "Big Al" is coming to town to correct that problem.
I also heard that The mayor of Tulsa, P.T. Barnum G.T. Bynum is anxious to meet with the good Reverend.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

wmenorr67

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2016, 07:49:45 AM »
I'm with you on this.


The other thing that TPD is going to get beaten up on is that they still haven't purchased body cams.  They are supposed to have a federal grant to purchase them but just haven't seemed to find the "right" one to buy.  The first officer on the scene, the one who fired the shot, also didn't turn on her emergency lights, therefore her dashcam wasn't on, which might have given some idea of what went on prior to the first back up and helicopter arriving.

Another twist in all of this is that the helicopter pilot is her husband.

Another story that gives more information on this one.

Quote
Two 911 calls described an SUV that had been abandoned in the middle of the road. One unidentified caller said the driver was acting strangely, adding, "I think he's smoking something."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/20/man-ignored-oklahoma-officers-commands-before-shooting-attorney-says.html



Quote
I heard this morning that "Big Al" is coming to town to correct that problem.
I also heard that The mayor of Tulsa, P.T. Barnum G.T. Bynum is anxious to meet with the good Reverend.

Oh goody.....

As for the Charlotte issue, there are two stories that are floating around.  I got this info from a former classmate that now lives there.

The guy that was shot apparently was sitting at a bus stop waiting for his son reading a book.  So either there is a bigger story here than is being told or two separate incidents happened.

There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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birdman

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2016, 08:36:23 AM »
The more interesting situation is now in Charlotte. 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/21/at-least-12-charlotte-cops-injured-in-protests-following-officer-involved-death-black-man.html

From the link:
Quote
The protests broke out Tuesday after 43-year-old Keith Lamont Scott was fatally shot by a black officer at an apartment complex on the city's northeast side. They continued into early Wednesday morning, when TV footage showed dozens of protesters on Interstate 85 apparently looting semi-trucks and setting their contents on fire on the highway....
Tuesday night, a larger group of demonstrators gathered near the scene of the shooting. The Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department tweeted that demonstrators were destroying marked police vehicles and that approximately 12 officers had been injured, including one who was hit in the face with a rock. Photos and TV video showed police firing tear gas to break up the crowd. Some officers were in riot gear.
(Emphasis added)

Yeah...the press keep saying "protest{s,er}" or demonstrator....I think given the bolded text, you actual mean "riot" and "rioter"

Keep your powder dry...

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2016, 10:18:36 AM »
Bearing arms has two good pieces that are not following the narrative

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Ben

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2016, 10:25:49 AM »
From the link:(Emphasis added)

Yeah...the press keep saying "protest{s,er}" or demonstrator....I think given the bolded text, you actual mean "riot" and "rioter"

Keep your powder dry...

That bugs the hell out of me too. I'm too lazy to search, but I bet the MSM hasn't used the term "rioters" for these domestic riots in thirty years or more. I wouldn't be surprised if they change terms to "unanticipated shoppers" at some point.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Hawkmoon

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2016, 10:46:39 AM »
That bugs the hell out of me too. I'm too lazy to search, but I bet the MSM hasn't used the term "rioters" for these domestic riots in thirty years or more. I wouldn't be surprised if they change terms to "unanticipated shoppers" at some point.

So you're saying that the items the rioters looters protesters shoppers remove from the stores in these incidents are simply "uncompensated purchases"?
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Balog

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2016, 11:14:19 AM »
Sounds like some "furtive movements" to me. I'm going to enjoy the folks freaking out about "ZOMG he didn't have his hands raised" who will ignore the "He was reaching through his (closed) window." Always nice to see which distortions destroy credibility and which don't eh?
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2016, 11:35:33 AM »
The Tulsa shooting seems somewhat dubious but until there's more investigation....
Not following police orders shouldn't be a death sentence.  If you clearly are armed and threaten the police then by all means.  How is it that I can't shoot someone for dropping their hands in a "furtive manner" but they can? 
The other shooting?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-chief-officers-warned-black-man-to-drop-gun/ar-BBwpBth?OCID=ansmsnnews11
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KD5NRH

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2016, 11:42:35 AM »
How is it that I can't shoot someone for dropping their hands in a "furtive manner" but they can?

Because they're allowed to assume that everyone they meet is Zombie Bob Munden.  You're supposed to take a more realistic approach, and figure that being on target, finger on the trigger will allow you to wait until you actually see a weapon and still have time to fire.

MechAg94

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2016, 02:23:21 PM »
The Tulsa shooting seems somewhat dubious but until there's more investigation....
Not following police orders shouldn't be a death sentence.  If you clearly are armed and threaten the police then by all means.  How is it that I can't shoot someone for dropping their hands in a "furtive manner" but they can? 
The other shooting?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-chief-officers-warned-black-man-to-drop-gun/ar-BBwpBth?OCID=ansmsnnews11
If you can clearly explain the threat you perceived, you might be able to do that.  The prosecutor and jury might not believe you though.
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MechAg94

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2016, 01:43:16 PM »
https://gma.yahoo.com/tulsa-police-officer-shares-her-side-story-terence-225515468--abc-news-topstories.html

Most of what I am hearing since I posted this is the guy was ignoring commands to stay near the police cruiser so they could handcuff him, but moved to his car and reached in for something.  The videos show most of this, but I thought the view was obscured at the point he reached into the vehicle and was shot.  Yeah, he had his hands up prior to that, but it doesn't mean a whole lot.
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Balog

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2016, 01:46:52 PM »
https://gma.yahoo.com/tulsa-police-officer-shares-her-side-story-terence-225515468--abc-news-topstories.html

Most of what I am hearing since I posted this is the guy was ignoring commands to stay near the police cruiser so they could handcuff him, but moved to his car and reached in for something.  The videos show most of this, but I thought the view was obscured at the point he reached into the vehicle and was shot.  Yeah, he had his hands up prior to that, but it doesn't mean a whole lot.

He reached in through the glass?



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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2016, 03:20:29 PM »
He reached in through the glass?



Look at CSD's link:
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/09/20/terence-crutcher-shot-hands-heres-definitive-proof/

Looks like the sunroof and front windows are open.

I can understand the LEO's concern, but (even assuming the window was down) this would likely land a non-LEO in prison.

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HeroHog

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2016, 03:22:16 PM »
There are some screen grabs out there showing the guys hands were NOT up when he was shot and the window was NOT up. They also show his right hand at his waist or pocket area IIRC.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2016, 03:23:37 PM »
He reached in through the glass?





I haven't seen the full report but they are saying that window actually was down.  If the windows are tinted that is a rather clear view to the inside of the SUV, also it is possible the window was partially down.

I don't know what the entire story is but things are going to be interesting around here for a few more days since the "beloved" Al Sharpton is going to be in town Tuesday.  Just hope his partner in crime J.J. stays away.  One of them here at a time is more than enough.
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HeroHog

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dogmush

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2016, 03:41:44 PM »
It's not uncommon to have back windows tinted and front's clear.  Many vehicles come from the factory that way.

And Balog's screen grab looks a whole lot like blood running down the window and side of the truck.  I find it a little tough to think he got shot, rolled up the window, and then bled on it for a bit to better frame the cops.  That's Zimmerman-esque level planning there.  >:D

Which is not to say that C&Sd's video showing his hands were at his waist isn't also correct.  He could very well have dropped his hands, moved around, leaned up on a closed window, done the hokey pokey, whatever and gotten shot.

ETA:  HeroHog, I see what you're saying.  and that's the problem with grainy video.  That arm could be through a window, or it could be leaned on a closed window.  I definitely see the sleeve of his shirt.  But I couldn't swear either way, from that picture, that his arm was in that truck.  Which is not to say he didn't do something to justify him getting shot.  Just that there seems to be two main narratives being spun right now, and the available evidence seems to show inconsistencies in BOTH of those narratives.

KD5NRH

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Re: Video of Tulsa police shooting Terence Crutcher
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2016, 04:06:04 PM »
ETA:  HeroHog, I see what you're saying.  and that's the problem with grainy video.

It's also the problem with not having the street level audio.  I'm wondering if the reason that hasn't been released is that we might find out something about the commands given, (possibly conflicting) deceased's statements, (maybe he said his hearing aid was in the car) or timing of the shot/tazer that's not good for the PD.