I'm so glad the BSA is pulling this crap now

[Firethorn]

Yes,M my Scouts carry fixed blade knives. Yes they shoot guns not on the BSA approved list. Yes, they are becoming self reliant young men.  Screw the politics.

What?  The BSA has disapproved of fixed blade knives?  Why?  An approved list of guns?  Why?

[Scout26]

What?  The BSA has disapproved of fixed blade knives?  Why?  An approved list of guns?  Why?

They only "Allow" locking blade knives.   Why?   Suzie Soccer Mom.   Think about it.  Back when I was in Middle and High School, every boy carried a Buck 101 knife.  Every. Single. One.   Can't have a knife in school, so since the boys aren't handling/using them every day, they don't know HOW to when they can only carry for 1.5 days each month.   Lots of cuts and Suzie Soccer Mom is horrified that little Timmy cut himself.

And aprroved guns are:
Cub Scouts:  BB Guns at District or Council Events only.
Boy Scouts:  Shotguns or .22 rifles only, again at District or Council Events.
Venturers: Can do Rifle, Pistol, or Shotgun at ranges.


Now, did our Boy Scouts shoot M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, AR-15's, a K98k, a SMLE (No4), a Mosin Nagant, a 1903 Springfield ??
Yes, after they had spent the morning helping direct parking for the Zombie Shoot.  Once done parking cars (not driving them, but directing people to parking spaces), they took off their uniform shirts and proceed to go up and down the line to various ranges to shoot Archery, Shotguns, Muzzleloaders, and all the above listed guns.   (some of the above were at the Stage CMP hosted, the rest were mine. ).

Seriously, Makattack, There's a local Troop and/or Pack that needs a guy like you.  Chris and I see things on how a troop should be run pretty much eye-to-eye.  There are still a lot of good things in the program.  It's the adults and outsiders that hate everything America that have *expletive deleted*ed it up.

[Firethorn]

I know that our local troop pretty much ignored National unless we were at a higher level BSA event where national representatives were present.

That's where we had stuff like being told to lower our rope bridge(tall enough to walk under!) because another troop's had collapsed and some people got hurt.

We had already had most of the troop up there for a group photo.

[Mannlicher]

BSA lost it's mojo years ago.  I see no reason at all to subject a boy to the PC quagmire it has become.

[cordex]

Given that the good troops ignore directives from the organization's hierarchy and take part in unsanctioned activities, what benefit is there in remaining attached to the organization?  Ease of fundraising?  Tradition?

I've got two girls and no interest whatsoever in becoming a cookie distribution warehouse, so we'll stick to camping and hiking on our own.

[wmenorr67]

Maybe we should start our own group that will teach both boys and girls all the needed skills.

Children of the APS

[MillCreek]

Maybe we should start our own group that will teach both boys and girls all the needed skills.

Children of the APS

It would quickly descend into factionalism over matters of religion, politics and cornbread.

[cordex]

It would quickly descend into factionalism over matters of religion, politics and cornbread.

We will be held together by the one true way of detcord.

[makattak]

We will be held together by the one true way of detcord.

I'm fairly certain detcord isn't about bringing people together. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[RevDisk]

I'm fairly certain detcord isn't about bringing people together. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Depends on how good you are with shaped charges.

[Firethorn]

Depends on how good you are with shaped charges.

Indeed, explosive welding is a thing, and something of an art form.

[41magsnub]

It could be worse.  My soon to be step son was in adventurers, which is a religious based boy and girl scout alternative, he goes there via his school.  Lamest group I've ever seen.  They talked up the outdoorsy aspects a lot.  They have merit badges, but they are participation trophy's and gloss over the topic.  They sing songs and do arts and crafts.  Every other month they get co-opted to do bible based skits at the church.  The two weekly meetings prior to the skit are taken up in practice.

They camp once each summer.  The camp is car camping at a camp ground, they pack in air mattresses, a BBQ (for their veggie dogs), and a generator.

It's like the worst aspects of cub scouts, boy scouts, and girl scouts all rolled into one.  They don't take gays/trans/whatevers though...   lol

[RoadKingLarry]

I'm surprised they haven't sold off Philmont yet

[T.O.M.]

Given that the good troops ignore directives from the organization's hierarchy and take part in unsanctioned activities, what benefit is there in remaining attached to the organization?  Ease of fundraising?  Tradition?

I've got two girls and no interest whatsoever in becoming a cookie distribution warehouse, so we'll stick to camping and hiking on our own.

There are some aspects of the national BSA program that are worth retaining.  The Merit Badge program is still tremendous, and serves to expose young men to a lot of areas that they otherwise never learn about.  I know several men who chose their career fields based on what they saw earning merit badges.  And a lot are just worthwhile life skills.  First Aid, Lifesaving, Cooking, Personal Management (Personal Finances would be a better title).  And, the traditional "boy lead" troops put young men in charge of things at an early age, and serves to teach organization, communication, logistics, etc.

My complaints are with the management and the dumbass decisions they make on what seems to be an annual basis, if not more often.  The organization, if left to its best elements, is fantastic.

Oh, and a Scout earning his Eagle Scout still means something.  It's one area where you can rest assured it isn't a participation award.  Only about 5% of boys who put on a uniform earn the award.  It shows that the boy committed to the goal and actually did things to earn it.

Oh, and Philmont?  Honestly, the three high adventure bases (I can't count the new Bectel facililty in West Virginia as a high adventure base, as it is really a glorified summer camp with better activities).  Backpacking in the wilderness for a couple of weeks at Philmont, canoeing some of the boarder lakes at Northern Tier, or sailing in the Carribean at Sea Base are all real adventures, complete with real dangers (there were several deaths at Philmont last year).  I truly hope those don't change.

[Sideways_8]

The amount of booze and sex among Philmont staff would surprise most people seeing as how the majority of people working there are Eagle Scouts.

[makattak]

The amount of booze and sex among Philmont staff would surprise most people seeing as how the majority of people working there are Eagle Scouts.

Having gone there... it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Also it kind of indicates the reasons for a (straight) boys only organization. But we need to pretend that doesn't matter because society has "progressed."

[Sideways_8]

Having gone there... it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Also it kind of indicates the reasons for a (straight) boys only organization. But we need to pretend that doesn't matter because society has "progressed."

I'm pretty much a live and let live person when it comes to sexuality. However, teenagers aren't known for great decision making abilities and putting a bunch of them, who are sexually attracted to each other, together and going camping in the woods just doesn't seem like a smart idea whether it's co-ed, or homosexuals or all of the above.

[HankB]

When I was scouting age, they didn't have this gay cr@p intruding, but scouting wasn't the way my father had described it when HE was a boy. One day they had a scouting jamboree or something at my Catholic grammar school back in Chicago - the school didn't actually sponsor it, but they somehow were involved, or looking to get involved. So my Dad and I went to see it - maybe I'd join, and learn all the "outdoorsy" stuff my Dad told me scouting was about.

I was Cub Scout age at the time, and the only - and I mean ONLY - activity for Cub scouts was the pinewood derby stuff. NOTHING outdoorsy at all. Now, there's nothing WRONG with that as a father/son bonding activity, but it certainly had NOTHING to do with what I was interested in, so I never became involved. As far as I know, neither did any of my peers at the school. Maybe it's because we were in a very urban area, but still . . . it just didn't seem like scouting.

So I think scouting has been getting taken downhill for a long time. Which is really kind of sad.

[Scout26]

Urban packs and troops have had that problem for a long, long, long time.  If you are in the city, you are looking at 2+ hour drive to get to wherever you are going to camp.   Figure you meet at the meeting place at 6:30-7pm.  You are now setting up tents after 9pm.  Most of the year that's well after dark.

As a consequence, most of them rarely go camping.  Summer Camp and maybe once or twice during the rest of the year.


We go every month.  In fact they are packing up right now to go to Klondike.  Spend the night in a tent tonight, and Klondike Derby is tomorrow.  We are lucky that we have Cantigny and Blackwell Forest Preserve in our back yard.  There are also several other camping locations within an hour +/- drive from us, but that would be an easy 2+ hours from anywhere in the city.

[BlueStarLizzard]

It could be worse.  My soon to be step son was in adventurers, which is a religious based boy and girl scout alternative, he goes there via his school.  Lamest group I've ever seen.  They talked up the outdoorsy aspects a lot.  They have merit badges, but they are participation trophy's and gloss over the topic.  They sing songs and do arts and crafts.  Every other month they get co-opted to do bible based skits at the church.  The two weekly meetings prior to the skit are taken up in practice.

They camp once each summer.  The camp is car camping at a camp ground, they pack in air mattresses, a BBQ (for their veggie dogs), and a generator.

It's like the worst aspects of cub scouts, boy scouts, and girl scouts all rolled into one.  They don't take gays/trans/whatevers though...   lol

Check for your local 4H clubs (Clubs are split by interest rather than one size fits all) I was in the Shooting Club and Adventure Club (outdoorsy stuff, backpacking, rock climbing, canoeing). We also had a Hoof and Woof club (that only really did the Hoof part, but retained the name) around here.
We actually did stuff and the overseeing political type headaches were mostly absent.

[T.O.M.]

The amount of booze and sex among Philmont staff would surprise most people seeing as how the majority of people working there are Eagle Scouts.

A couple of Scouts I know went out and worked a few summers at Philmont.   Both were college age, and described life for staff in camp like life at college...  Lots of young men and women in good shape with some disposable income and a fair amount of time alone together with some privacy.  The smart one of the two had a great time, made some good memories,  and had good stories to share.  The dumber of the two got booted back home...caugt drinking during work hours, and underage (only 20).

[brimic]

Urban packs and troops have had that problem for a long, long, long time.  If you are in the city, you are looking at 2+ hour drive to get to wherever you are going to camp.   Figure you meet at the meeting place at 6:30-7pm.  You are now setting up tents after 9pm.  Most of the year that's well after dark.

As a consequence, most of them rarely go camping.  Summer Camp and maybe once or twice during the rest of the year.


We go every month.  In fact they are packing up right now to go to Klondike.  Spend the night in a tent tonight, and Klondike Derby is tomorrow.  We are lucky that we have Cantigny and Blackwell Forest Preserve in our back yard.  There are also several other camping locations within an hour +/- drive from us, but that would be an easy 2+ hours from anywhere in the city.

I was actually really impressed with Boy Scouting local to me- they camp every month.... There are also 3 troops locally to choose from all well organized. My son dropped out of scouting not because 'teh gayz' , but because he wanted to play baseball 8 months out of the year, along with other sports, and there isn't enough time for everything

[Firethorn]

I'm surprised they haven't sold off Philmont yet

From what I remember reading about the place when I was there, they can't.

Given that the good troops ignore directives from the organization's hierarchy and take part in unsanctioned activities, what benefit is there in remaining attached to the organization?  Ease of fundraising?  Tradition?

"All of the above"
- When I was in, most of their training/merit badges were still good.
- Recognition - we could get hiking/camping rights easier as members. 
- Higher level activities - Jamborees and such were some of our most political stuff, but still good to meet up with all the other scouts
- Insurance
- Uniforms, equipment, and such.  We didn't need to create a program from scratch, just jettison some stupid stuff.