United Airlines initiates self-immolation

[KD5NRH]

He may be using weasel words so he might mean what I'm saying, but "asking" people to get off the flight wasn't the problem.

"From now on, we'll be taking Paul Blart and his rejected-Napoleon-Dynamite-extra buddy in right from the start so they know we ain't asking."

"And if Kenny G doesn't scare 'em out, we've got Yanni on retainer."

[KD5NRH]

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/05/08/united-airlines-flies-woman-to-san-francisco-instead-france.html

According to Bahetoukilae, who speaks only French and allowed her niece to speak on her behalf, the airline changed the flight’s gate at the last minute, and failed to notify the passengers via email. Furthermore, Bahetoukilae claims the airline did not announce the gate change in French, despite the original flight being bound for Paris.

Hmmm...ya think maybe anything affecting an international flight should at least be communicated in the language of both the origin and destination countries?

Just imagine the fun if she'd ended up on the wrong international flight and found out as she got to the airport of a less-than-friendly country.

[Fly320s]

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/05/08/united-airlines-flies-woman-to-san-francisco-instead-france.html

Hmmm...ya think maybe anything affecting an international flight should at least be communicated in the language of both the origin and destination countries?

Just imagine the fun if she'd ended up on the wrong international flight and found out as she got to the airport of a less-than-friendly country.

UA may not have announced the flight in French, but the departure information is easy to read even for a French speaker. 

[RoadKingLarry]

Don't they check the tickets at the gate as you board the plane?

[Fly320s]

Don't they check the tickets at the gate as you board the plane?

Yes, at least they should.  I think every airline uses a bar code scanner these days, so I don't know how this was missed.

I don't know about UAL, but my airline announces the flight number and destination several times during the boarding process.  Even on the cheap airport PA, "San Francisco sounds nothing like Paris, France."

[zahc]

They usually do a "last call" even after everyone is boarded. I would have sympathy for a truly deaf/hard-of-hearing person, but otherwise, the airlines can only idiot-proof things so much.
 

[Fly320s]

The idiots keep lowering the bar.

[Hawkmoon]

I've flown into and out of JFK in New York numerous times. It never ceases to amaze me that airports all over the world make announcements in the native language, plus (usually) French, German, Spanish, and often one or two others depending on the part of the world. But JFK, one of the busiest international airports in the world and the eastern gateway to the U.S.? Announcements are only in "English" -- and I put that in quotation marks because the announcements are usually read by a female with such a heavy Jamaican accent that it's barely recognizable as English to a native speaker, and I'm sure is virtually incomprehensible to someone for whom English is a second (or third, or fourth) language.

[MechAg94]

Yes, at least they should.  I think every airline uses a bar code scanner these days, so I don't know how this was missed.

I don't know about UAL, but my airline announces the flight number and destination several times during the boarding process.  Even on the cheap airport PA, "San Francisco sounds nothing like Paris, France."

I was wondering about that.  I recall the destination clearly shown on the gate last time I flew.  If the plane went to Paris, Texas, I could understand a bit better but I don't think they have a major airport. 

[zahc]

I've flown into and out of JFK in New York numerous times. It never ceases to amaze me that airports all over the world make announcements in the native language, plus (usually) French, German, Spanish, and often one or two others depending on the part of the world. But JFK, one of the busiest international airports in the world and the eastern gateway to the U.S.? Announcements are only in "English" -- and I put that in quotation marks because the announcements are usually read by a female with such a heavy Jamaican accent that it's barely recognizable as English to a native speaker, and I'm sure is virtually incomprehensible to someone for whom English is a second (or third, or fourth) language.

I agree that this is a problem. People in roles like airport announcers should be evaluated and tested on their ability to speak standard, intelligible English. By world standards, it is very unprofessional how little people care about this in the US. Problems causing this include not caring about anyone besides Americans,  and no official designated dialect, which would probably be racist or something.

[RoadKingLarry]

I agree that this is a problem. People in roles like airport announcers should be evaluated and tested on their ability to speak standard, intelligible English. By world standards, it is very unprofessional how little people care about this in the US. Problems causing this include not caring about anyone besides Americans,  and no official designated dialect, which would probably be racist or something.

Pointing out that someone in a role that should require good communication abilities  is uninteligable because of a thick accent can be actionable under EEOC policies, or so I've been told.

[sumpnz]

[Hawkmoon]

Pointing out that someone in a role that should require good communication abilities  is uninteligable because of a thick accent can be actionable under EEOC policies, or so I've been told.

How about just pointing out that the person is unintelligible because nobody can understand him/her?

[wmenorr67]

http://www.kctv5.com/story/35386267/kansas-city-mom-humiliated-shamed-after-forced-to-pee-in-cup-on-united-flight-she-says

Now you have one girl, two cups.....Supposedly "forced" to pee in cups because....

[dogmush]

At this point I'm starting to suspect people making *expletive deleted*it up to get their 15 min of fame.  I flat don't believe that in 2017, if a lady squatted and peed in an airline seat there wouldn't be videos of it.

[Ben]

At this point I'm starting to suspect people making *expletive deleted*it up to get their 15 min of fame.  I flat don't believe that in 2017, if a lady squatted and peed in an airline seat there wouldn't be videos of it.

I just now saw a clip of the two guys fighting on Southwest and wouldn't doubt "setup" for a minute. Also just saw a clip of some guy taking a video of his altercation with an airline employee over an oversize charge for his bag. The bag was as big as a house.

I have no doubt the majority of incidents now are either setups or people taking advantage in hopes of some increased reward, ever since congress got involved. Thanks congress.

[KD5NRH]

I don't know about UAL, but my airline announces the flight number and destination several times during the boarding process.  Even on the cheap airport PA, "San Francisco sounds nothing like Paris, France."

Americans recognize "San Francisco" as a place name, but to someone who doesn't speak English (or Spanish) or have any knowledge of US geography, it may just be another collection of sounds that don't mean anything in particular.  For all they'd know, it could mean "this is a non smoking flight."  Just because she's from France doesn't mean she's not the French equivalent of a backwoods Arkansas hillbilly.  (And frankly, not knowing at least basic conversational English makes me suspect she is.)

[Hawkmoon]

Just because she's from France doesn't mean she's not the French equivalent of a backwoods Arkansas hillbilly.  (And frankly, not knowing at least basic conversational English makes me suspect she is.)

You're forgetting that she's from France. Most French people, especially from around Paris, hate English. (And any other language that's not French.)

The exception is the Normandy region. There, they still remember and appreciate the fact that Americans liberated them from German occupation. Back in 1994 my then girlfriend and I went on an adult education tour of Normandy, just before the official fifty year anniversary of D-Day. At that point I hadn't spoken French since my freshman year in College, so thirty years or so -- and I wasn't exactly a stellar student of languages anyway. But ... my girlfriend didn't speak any French at all, so I became our translator. Nonetheless, anywhere we went in Normandy, the people were very polite and understanding, and genuinely seemed to appreciate that I was at least making an effort to speak their language.

At the end of the tour the group made an obligatory stop in Paris, where it was a VERY different story. In Paris, if you don't speak perfect, fluent French, most of them are either incredibly rude, or they ignore you completely.

[dogmush]

Americans recognize "San Francisco" as a place name, but to someone who doesn't speak English (or Spanish) or have any knowledge of US geography, it may just be another collection of sounds that don't mean anything in particular.  For all they'd know, it could mean "this is a non smoking flight."  Just because she's from France doesn't mean she's not the French equivalent of a backwoods Arkansas hillbilly.  (And frankly, not knowing at least basic conversational English makes me suspect she is.)

I have flown all over the world, to many airports (and train stations!) that don't make announcements in English. Despite the advantage that understanding english gets me, I understood my responsibility to figure out enough local* to make sure I got on the right bus/train/plane.  That's just a fact of international travel.  They make phrase books and translation apps. Use them.  Don't expect other countries to conform to your needs.

*That includes Swahili, Portugese, and Khmer. So not just easy languages.

[makattak]

I have flown all over the world, to many airports (and train stations!) that don't make announcements in English. Despite the advantage that understanding english gets me, I understood my responsibility to figure out enough local* to make sure I got on the right bus/train/plane.  That's just a fact of international travel.  They make phrase books and translation apps. Use them.  Don't expect other countries to conform to your needs.

*That includes Swahili, Portugese, and Khmer. So not just easy languages.

This is a case where the passenger was in the wrong for not being able to understand the instructions, but the airline was even more in the wrong for allowing her to board the wrong flight.

At least two employees were in a position to recognize the error and just mechanically went about their jobs. The airline is rightfully blamed in this case.

[KD5NRH]

You're forgetting that she's from France. Most French people, especially from around Paris, hate English. (And any other language that's not French.)

Hate, yes,  but at least the ones who work in any sort of business popular with tourists know enough to get their money.

Don't expect other countries to conform to your needs.

In the grocery store or the Taco Bell, sure, but in a business that caters largely to international tourists, it's reasonable to expect that there will be employees available who speak at least the most common languages well enough to communicate effectively with a substantial number of their customers.
Even in this small town, when I worked at a motel I kept a stack of phrasebooks for German, French, Japanese, etc. (for Spanish I could always just call housekeeping) because there will often be something that needs to be communicated that just isn't in the "English in 30 minutes" audio course.  One local business even distributes lists to all their employees of the extensions of their best French, Japanese, Mandarin, German and Portuguese speakers, specifically because they deal with people who might have the equivalent English skill of an American who took a semester of foreign language in high school; enough to get through pleasantries and thoroughly misunderstand anything more complex.

And frankly, Ms Bahetoukilae appears to have been taking what may well have been a once in a lifetime trip to the US to visit her niece, who would then have escorted her to essentially everything.  Therefore she effectively provided her own translator where practical rather than expecting people on the street to accommodate her, but obviously couldn't do so past the security checkpoints at the international airport. 

[Hawkmoon]

I have flown all over the world, to many airports (and train stations!) that don't make announcements in English. Despite the advantage that understanding english gets me, I understood my responsibility to figure out enough local* to make sure I got on the right bus/train/plane.  That's just a fact of international travel.  They make phrase books and translation apps. Use them.  Don't expect other countries to conform to your needs.

Agreed.

Had an amusing incident along those lines a number of years ago. I was traveling to a destination in Russia, through Moscow. The arrival airport was Sheremetyovo 2, the international terminal. There, they announce flights in Russian, English, and several other languages. The continuing flight was from the old terminal, Sheremetyovo 1, which only handles domestic, in-country flights. And all announcements are in Russian -- only. My flight was delayed due to blizzard conditions both in Moscow and in Rostov-on-Don, my final destination.

After waiting several hours, I was getting concerned that I had no idea what was happening. I pulled out my trusty Russian phrase book, spent about fifteen minutes rehearsing one sentence, and finally turned to the man sitting next to me to ask him "What's going on?" And he turned to me and replied, very apologetically, "I'm sorry, I don't speak Russian."

It turned out he was French, but he lived and worked in New York, spoke English fluently, and had an American girlfriend. He was going to Rostov-on-Don for business, and he was traveling with an associate who was Russian and who spoke French but not English. So he flagged his colleague, and we had a nice 3-way conversation about what was happening. We all got to Rostov-on-Don -- eventually.

[Brad Johnson]

Update...

Two Chicago Aviation officers fired, two suspended.

http://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/national/officers-fired-after-removal-of-united-passenger/838478368

Brad

[Hawkmoon]

Update: Two of the four "aviation security" officers (who were, in fact, police officers) have been fired, and the other two received five-day suspensions.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/airport-police-sacked-over-passenger-11360563

Apparently United Airlines has decided not to involve police in such situations in the future. If they stick to this, how DO they plan to remove passengers they decide to bump after having allowed them to board?

[Edit]Brad beat me to it.

[just Warren]

This didn't need it's own thread.

Just another indication of how bad things are.

I get that the ramp worker was doing her job, maybe. I don't know all the rules but I assume she can't let a passenger have access to their luggage after a hand-off like that. It sure seems like the sort of rule that would exist.

However the massive overreaction by the cops, the overcharging and the lying about what happened in court no less is the problem. Compounded by AA's horrible behavior towards the person.

These behaviors need to be punished in some way. I hope this widow wins hr case. And it would be great if the ramp worker gets jail time for her part in this debacle.