Author Topic: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future  (Read 5182 times)

MillCreek

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http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/is-seattle-a-target-for-a-north-korean-nuclear-attack-well-not-quite-yet-insiders-say/

Dear APS:

In the event that Puget Sound goes up in a mushroom cloud, please avenge our deaths.

The Puget Sound members of APS
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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brimic

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 10:52:39 AM »
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/is-seattle-a-target-for-a-north-korean-nuclear-attack-well-not-quite-yet-insiders-say/

Dear APS:

In the event that Puget Sound goes up in a mushroom cloud, please avenge our deaths.

The Puget Sound members of APS

We'll spam Kim with Kek/Pepe memes, he'll be on suicide watch within a week >:D
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RevDisk

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2017, 10:55:06 AM »
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/is-seattle-a-target-for-a-north-korean-nuclear-attack-well-not-quite-yet-insiders-say/

Dear APS:

In the event that Puget Sound goes up in a mushroom cloud, please avenge our deaths.

The Puget Sound members of APS

I wouldn't be overly worried. If the NK nukes the Puget Sound, we'd nuke North Korea. We can't NOT do so. Even brokering a deal with China to regime change North Korea without us retaliating wouldn't fly. We'd be politically required to detonate a nuke on North Korea's capital. Possibly multiple nuclear weapons on major bases or whatnot. Fallout from those weapons would fall on China, that would get irritated over it.

China wants a buffer zone between South Korea and their borders. Why doesn't matter. They do, and have for half a century. So they will demand a buffer government at all times. Not quite a puppet government, but definitely a client state. That said buffer annoys us is only better. If that buffer threatens China's interests, the PRC would cross the Yalu with more soldiers than North Korea has population of healthy adults. I doubt they'd try to take South Korea, as that means direct war with the US.

China's support is the only reason why the current regime exists. While it means we cannot overthrow that regime, it also limits North Korea's abilities. If NK attacks the US in a way we cannot ignore, it means the end of Chinese support and likely China directly seizing their client state and turning it into a puppet state.
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230RN

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 11:09:39 AM »
All this reminds me of the last days of the planet Mars.

 :old:

 [popcorn]
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

makattak

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 11:13:40 AM »
I wouldn't be overly worried. If the NK nukes the Puget Sound, we'd nuke North Korea. We can't NOT do so. Even brokering a deal with China to regime change North Korea without us retaliating wouldn't fly. We'd be politically required to detonate a nuke on North Korea's capital. Possibly multiple nuclear weapons on major bases or whatnot. Fallout from those weapons would fall on China, that would get irritated over it.

China wants a buffer zone between South Korea and their borders. Why doesn't matter. They do, and have for half a century. So they will demand a buffer government at all times. Not quite a puppet government, but definitely a client state. That said buffer annoys us is only better. If that buffer threatens China's interests, the PRC would cross the Yalu with more soldiers than North Korea has population of healthy adults. I doubt they'd try to take South Korea, as that means direct war with the US.

China's support is the only reason why the current regime exists. While it means we cannot overthrow that regime, it also limits North Korea's abilities. If NK attacks the US in a way we cannot ignore, it means the end of Chinese support and likely China directly seizing their client state and turning it into a puppet state.

A radioactive wasteland wouldn't work as a buffer?
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KD5NRH

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 11:20:32 AM »
A radioactive wasteland wouldn't work as a buffer?

That's pretty much my thought.

230RN

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 11:26:32 AM »
A radioactive wasteland wouldn't work as a buffer?
My first thoughts, too, and deeding it over to China after the glassification, but I deleted that part of my post.  I also wondered what it would take to shift their focus to San Francisco.  Also deleted.  Left it with the thought about Mars, or Krypton, as we called it back then.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 11:43:09 AM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Frank Castle

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2017, 11:30:30 AM »
Quote
A radioactive wasteland wouldn't work as a buffer?


It all depends on the winds.....

The radioactive wasteland could be Japan or South Korea!


230RN

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2017, 11:48:37 AM »
Well, if we could mount MOABs (and I guess we're working on even bigger conventionals) on missiles, we could get pretty tactical about it.

And all the resulting fixed nitrogen from the 'splosives would be good fertilizer.

Might be doing the general down-trodden populace a favor.

And we'd be viewed as noble and praiseworthy because we used precision-directed conventionals after their nuclear attack.

Yay, win-win !  ;/

Actually, they'd probably use a satchel nuke smuggled in from Canada so we wouldn't be able to "prove" who done it.

WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

RevDisk

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 01:04:25 PM »
Actually, they'd probably use a satchel nuke smuggled in from Canada so we wouldn't be able to "prove" who done it.

We can pretty much prove any fissionable material twelve ways to Sunday. Where and when it was mined, where and how it was refined, etc. Trace elements are essentially impossible/impractical to remove. Presidents can try to gloss over something. But reality is, a nuclear attack on the US cannot be glossed over.

Problem is, if we invaded and occupied North Korea, it'd cost significantly more than Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Assuming China had zero objection. We poured around 2 trillion dollars combined into those rat holes. North Korea would require about three generations of the most intensive humanitarian work imaginable. We have no comparison in history. Even the collapse of the Soviet Union and its client states was fairly minor in comparison.

NK as a semi rogue nuclear nation is significant cheaper than a toppled failed nation. SK is well aware of this. And not eager to spend at least a third of their GDP for a hundred years rehabilitating the North.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

230RN

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2017, 01:36:56 PM »
^ Good points.  Thanks for the insights.
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

AJ Dual

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2017, 04:27:54 PM »
A radioactive wasteland wouldn't work as a buffer?

Like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? A modern fission-fusion-fission device with tritium in the pit to give additional neutrons to more completely fission the plutonium has more fallout byproducts, but the time-factor is the same, 6 months max if you don't mind third-world health and mortality levels.

But anyway, the worst stuff, because it gives off hot highly penetrating gammas and has a good degree of bioavailability and uptake, the Iodine 131 goes through a half-life in 8 days. Two weeks to a month would be enough time for any military that presumably has a lower standard of safety concerns for it's troops, and for all I know within American/NATO guidelines for ground forces too.

The gold standard in fallout enhanced or "salted" weapons is the "cobalt bomb" which uses the extra neutron rammed into "regular" colbalt-59 to make Cobalt 60. And it has a half-life of 5.something years. Nasty, but not exactly the EOTW scenario either. While it lasts much longer, it's not as "hot" as some of the more traditional fallout products. And again, the area is survivable without any special protection in a decade. The Korean DMZ has stood much longer through political/ideological will from both sides than Cobalt-60 could have accomplished.

And the weight and expense of adding the cobalt to the bomb somewhere caused just way too many downstream engineering headaches for having to rework the missile, the torpedo, the artillery shell, the air-dropped bomb etc. The U.S. or USSR studied it intently, but never bothered developing it. Some Russian tests that unintentionally created Cobalt 60 because of the steels used in the bomb and whatever other equipment went up in the detonation have left some longer lived areas of contamination. However, like Cheyrnobyl, plants and wildlife are trucking along just fine for the most part there too.

Also, a UK test tried to use small amounts of cobalt as a "tracer" and yielded disappointing results that weren't useful, so it may not actually work as well in actual practice as feared.

Although, if we got a good direct hit on one or more of their reactors, that would be messier and have more sufficiently hot products that had longer half-lives too. Especially if it's a dirtier RBMK-like unpressurized graphite moderated reactor like Chernobyl was. And even then, while the Chernobyl exclusion zone isn't somewhere you'd want to live by modern first-world standards of health and longevity, but for most of it, the wildlife and a few squatters do just fine.
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KD5NRH

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2017, 05:21:33 PM »
Like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? A modern fission-fusion-fission device with tritium in the pit to give additional neutrons to more completely fission the plutonium has more fallout byproducts, but the time-factor is the same, 6 months max if you don't mind third-world health and mortality levels.

So in half a year it will be somewhat improved over the pre-bomb conditions?

Quote
Some Russian tests that unintentionally created Cobalt 60 because of the steels used in the bomb and whatever other equipment went up in the detonation have left some longer lived areas of contamination. However, like Cheyrnobyl, plants and wildlife are trucking along just fine for the most part there too.

Maybe we can just train some of the Fukushima radioactive pigs to attack all humans and lob them up on shore from submarines.  I think Chernobyl is supposed to have a healthy wolf population, so we can swipe some of those too.

Scout26

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 06:20:46 PM »
Could we give California to the Norks as a "buffer zone".   I think CA (or at least the coastal regions) need some NK-style Socialism good and hard.
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Put our backs to the north wind.
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grampster

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 07:39:28 PM »
Could we give California to the Norks as a "buffer zone".   I think CA (or at least the coastal regions) need some NK-style Socialism good and hard.

The D's in charge are working hard at that every day.
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230RN

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 07:58:21 PM »
I'm confused, AJ Dual:

"Like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? A modern fission-fusion-fission device with tritium in the pit to give additional neutrons to more completely fission the plutonium has more fallout byproducts, but the time-factor is the same, 6 months max if you don't mind third-world health and mortality levels."

But if you start out at, say, double the amount of intitial radiation, at the end of one half-life, you still have twice the radiation remaining.

It's like saying since the (metabolic) half life of caffeine in a cup of coffee is four hours, drinking two cups still brings you down to the same amount of caffeine in four hours as drinking only one cup.

Same for any factor of radiation (or caffeine) amount, double or otherwise.

I'm sure that can't be what you meant, but that seems to be the way it reads.

???

Terry

« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 08:15:17 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2017, 09:13:50 PM »
I'm kind of having a hard time seeing the downside of LA or Seattle or any other libtard conclave getting nuked.
=D
 
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cordex

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2017, 09:33:30 PM »
I'm kind of having a hard time seeing the downside of LA or Seattle or any other libtard conclave getting nuked.
=D
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Scout26

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2017, 10:28:19 PM »
Dear APS:

In the event that Puget Sound goes up in a mushroom cloud, please avenge our deaths.

The Puget Sound members of APS

In the spirit of the Puget Sound Area, we shall organize a Drum Circle around the White House while dressed in all black, with our faces covered and wearing pussycat hats, decrying the warmongers and fascists in the White House and Congress.  Followed by a riot and street fighting with anyone who dares open their mouth in opposition to our enlightened views. 

Will that do ???   It seems to be all the rage these days....

Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

RevDisk

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2017, 08:58:58 AM »
I'm kind of having a hard time seeing the downside of LA or Seattle or any other libtard conclave getting nuked.
=D
 

They're Americans too, even if they forget that. If any hostile nation kills one of our's, we need to kill a hundred of their's. It's just one of those things about Americans, we have to respond with appropriate proportional gesture. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2017, 09:00:41 AM »
They're Americans too, even if they forget that. If any hostile nation kills one of our's, we need to kill a hundred of their's. It's just one of those things about Americans, we have to respond with appropriate proportional gesture. 

Then that leaves us back at a *expletive deleted*ing plague. =D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MillCreek

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2017, 10:40:46 AM »
In the spirit of the Puget Sound Area, we shall organize a Drum Circle around the White House while dressed in all black, with our faces covered and wearing pussycat hats, decrying the warmongers and fascists in the White House and Congress.  Followed by a riot and street fighting with anyone who dares open their mouth in opposition to our enlightened views. 

Will that do ???   It seems to be all the rage these days....



Actually, that is only consistent with some particular areas of the city of Seattle and King County.  Due to population, these areas dominate Washington state politics, but once you get out of King County, you find yourself in much more moderate to conservative political areas.  Especially so once you cross the Cascades into Eastern Washington, which is almost entirely conservative to one degree or another.
_____________
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

KD5NRH

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2017, 11:06:51 AM »
Especially so once you cross the Cascades into Eastern Washington, which is almost entirely conservative to one degree or another.

Ok, so the reoccupation force is already in place for as soon as the west side is habitable again.

HankB

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Re: NK is chugging along with ability to nuke Seattle in the future
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2017, 02:06:31 PM »
Dear Kim Jong Un:

So you want to nuke Seattle?

Please note that most maps are incorrect, Seattle's actual latitude and longitude are   37°47′N    122°25′W

Please make a note.
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