Author Topic: Social Security making the news in Yahoo  (Read 6131 times)

Ben

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Re: Social Security making the news in Yahoo
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2017, 08:27:42 AM »

Why?  Most aren't even putting in the $5.5k, and from my calculations, the $5.5k is enough for a 'comfortable' retirement in a not too expensive area.

Sure, some people don't save at all. I knew plenty of people in gov that didn't even do the 5% TSP matching to get basically free money. Also people who work for larger firms or govs have 401Ks, TSPs, and penions and might not use IRAs because of that.

But there are also a lot of people that work for small businesses, are self-employed, or otherwise can't use retirement vehicles like 401Ks. That's why I'm so big on increasing both IRAs and HSAs. Just because you don't work for a large company or the gov doesn't mean you shouldn't have the same self-funded retirement options. At the very least, IRA annual maximums should equal 401K annual maximums.
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Fly320s

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Re: Social Security making the news in Yahoo
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2017, 09:00:48 AM »
The problem I see with SS and the other retirement plans is that most people lack the personal responsibility to save for their own future.  If everyone actually gave a damn and concerned themselves about their own retirement plans, then we could get rid of SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc.

Since so many people seem to like the goverment controlling their retirement fund, maybe the US should require mandatory retirement funds for everyone.  Like the SS scheme, the individual gets taxed via payroll deduction, but the money goes into an individual account instead of a general slush fund.  Think of it as a mandatory 401k.  The individual gets to decide how the money is invested, if at all.
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Ben

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Re: Social Security making the news in Yahoo
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2017, 09:31:41 AM »
The problem I see with SS and the other retirement plans is that most people lack the personal responsibility to save for their own future.  If everyone actually gave a damn and concerned themselves about their own retirement plans, then we could get rid of SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc.

Since so many people seem to like the goverment controlling their retirement fund, maybe the US should require mandatory retirement funds for everyone.  Like the SS scheme, the individual gets taxed via payroll deduction, but the money goes into an individual account instead of a general slush fund.  Think of it as a mandatory 401k.  The individual gets to decide how the money is invested, if at all.

True words. I'm pretty sure it's a big reason we got SS in the first place. People with strong personal responsibility traits HATE having their retirement (and lives) controlled. Sadly, I think it's a small percentage of the population. A larger chunk WANTS big brother to take care of them, and probably worse, the largest chunk of the population just doesn't care.

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zahc

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Re: Social Security making the news in Yahoo
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2017, 04:25:45 PM »
The problem I see with SS and the other retirement plans is that most people lack the personal responsibility to save for their own future.  If everyone actually gave a damn and concerned themselves about their own retirement plans, then we could get rid of SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc.

Since so many people seem to like the goverment controlling their retirement fund, maybe the US should require mandatory retirement funds for everyone.  Like the SS scheme, the individual gets taxed via payroll deduction, but the money goes into an individual account instead of a general slush fund.  Think of it as a mandatory 401k.  The individual gets to decide how the money is invested, if at all.

At that point, if funds are not being combined/robbed, it can be voluntary and opt-out, with a  amount default witholdingcontrolled by W-4 just like income tax withholding. It would be job-portable. Heck, you could have a little algorithm based on your age, dependents, etc to help you choose recommended withholding amounts.
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Firethorn

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Re: Social Security making the news in Yahoo
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2017, 10:26:04 PM »
At the very least, IRA annual maximums should equal 401K annual maximums.

Point.  $18k is a lot more than $5.5k.  If anything, it should be a big 'blob'.  IE $20k or so between 'everything'.

The problem I see with SS and the other retirement plans is that most people lack the personal responsibility to save for their own future.  If everyone actually gave a damn and concerned themselves about their own retirement plans, then we could get rid of SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc.

Indeed.  I don't think that many people like the government controlling their retirement fund, so much as many are too much of the grasshopper thinking paradigm that they don't even consider it until they're too close for personal savings to matter.

As having people too old to work being homeless or eating dog food is too negative of an issue to allow, as it looks bad on us as a nation, we needed a solution to that.  Enter Social Security.

Quote
Since so many people seem to like the goverment controlling their retirement fund, maybe the US should require mandatory retirement funds for everyone.  Like the SS scheme, the individual gets taxed via payroll deduction, but the money goes into an individual account instead of a general slush fund.  Think of it as a mandatory 401k.  The individual gets to decide how the money is invested, if at all.

I've proposed modifying minimum wage so that $1-2 an hour goes into somebody's HSP.  That would allow most to have the necessary funds build up while they're healthy youths.

Still, for retirement we need to identify the core.  I'd say that it's because we don't want pictures and exposes out there about homeless old people who just can't work anymore, as well as retired grandmas reduced to eating cat food.

As such, I wouldn't be wanting individual accounts and such - that gets expensive.  I'd look more at making it a defined benefits package for SS - a sort of annuity.  An inflation adjusted $12k/year or so isn't much, but it's generally sufficient to keep granny from sharing her diet with the cats.  If they want more, they can save it themselves. 

This also handles the issue of what happens when somebody lives much longer than expected - You could have the payments grow a little above inflation for those that live longer than the median life expectancy for their cohort.  $24k/year for somebody who reaches 100 isn't a bad tradeoff when their money handling at 65 figured that there was a 90% chance they wouldn't live to 90.

Quote
At that point, if funds are not being combined/robbed, it can be voluntary and opt-out, with a  amount default witholdingcontrolled by W-4 just like income tax withholding. It would be job-portable. Heck, you could have a little algorithm based on your age, dependents, etc to help you choose recommended withholding amounts.

You make it opt-out, and the grasshoppers will opt-out, then still demand money from the ants when winter comes.  I think that a certain minimal amount needs to be mandatory.

Then you stick the excess into investments and build a national permanent fund to pay for this sort of stuff.



Pb

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Re: Social Security making the news in Yahoo
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2017, 09:46:38 AM »
I think SS, medicaid and similar programs are a large factor behind the falling birthrate among US citizens.  Historically, one of the motivations for having a large family is that they would care for you when you were old.  My father told me it was standard for the elderly to move in with their children when he was a child.

makattak

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Re: Social Security making the news in Yahoo
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2017, 11:05:37 AM »
I think SS, medicaid and similar programs are a large factor behind the falling birthrate among US citizens.  Historically, one of the motivations for having a large family is that they would care for you when you were old.  My father told me it was standard for the elderly to move in with their children when he was a child.

That's an interesting point. I wonder if anyone has also connected Social Security to the warehousing of the elderly.

Lot of interplay on both points and the ubiquitous two-income family as well. I'm further wondering what role Social Security might have had on that. It's pretty hard for a surviving spouse to live on half the income (two together tend to benefit from gains that make them live far more cheaply than double what one could live on.)
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Firethorn

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Re: Social Security making the news in Yahoo
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2017, 01:39:56 PM »
Lot of interplay on both points and the ubiquitous two-income family as well. I'm further wondering what role Social Security might have had on that. It's pretty hard for a surviving spouse to live on half the income (two together tend to benefit from gains that make them live far more cheaply than double what one could live on.)

The half the income thing is pretty universal.  I like to use the poverty line as an example.  If you look at it, it's basically $8k to have a household of 0 people, and each person costs $4k.  So a household of 1 costs $12k, and 2 is $16k.  3 is $20k, etc...

This makes sense.  A "home" is always going to need at least 1 bathroom, kitchen, and bedroom.  All of these can cover multiple people, and are relatively cheap to extend to serve more people, to a point.  Utility bills usually have an effective minimum, going from one person to two won't double your bills.  Even food procurement generally becomes more efficient with more people. 

In addition, it's just not a good idea for humans to be living alone.  It can be done, I'm doing it, but there are a lot of negatives to it.  Especially for the elderly.

Having somebody else there can be the difference between life and death when a heart attack or stroke hits.